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Thread: Criticism of billionairism

  1. #411
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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by Individual View Post
    You can read what you want into your chart. In the early 1970's, the Intel 8008 chip resulted in a large number of high paying job opportunities, and the Intel 8080 chip along with Motorola 6502 only added more. Then came Atari, Commodore and more businesses creating many high paying job opportunities as most of the assembly was initially done by hand, and people wanted accessories too.
    And like most jobs which require skills, automation comes about, making the products much less expensive and reducing the number of high skilled workers needed, and/or moving production to where costs could be cut even greater.
    Wages haven't reduced, the number of workers earning them has.
    This makes no sense. If the necessary result of automation is that our economy can produce more but most everyone is poorer, then why should most everyone support it?

    If you owe no debt, you pay no interest. Increasing the recorded/printed amount of a fiat currency devalues the currency as it enters the market. A lender would be foolish to lend if the repayment of the loan didn't result in offsetting the inflation over the period of the loan repayment.
    And if I own a printing press, then why do I need any debt at all?

    Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "To exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine." - Pope Leo XIII

  2. #412
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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by charliebrown View Post
    You could have a billionaire who created numerous employees millionaires over an extended period of time and you can have billionaires that have exploited human beings over an extended period of time. We need a much better news sources calling out the demons and praising the angels. We should not be lumping all billionaires into a single basket. That would be prejudice.
    I can get behind this as a concept. Wealth in itself isn't the evil. It's greed and the desire to get ahead by keeping others down that's evil.

    Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "To exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine." - Pope Leo XIII

  3. #413
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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This makes no sense. If the necessary result of automation is that our economy can produce more but most everyone is poorer, then why should most everyone support it?
    It would be pointless to respond to a premise I don't agree with.


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And if I own a printing press, then why do I need any debt at all?

    Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
    Feel free, go ahead and print yourself a few billion dollars.

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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by Individual View Post
    It would be pointless to respond to a premise I don't agree with.
    Yet that's our economic reality. We have increased production but lower incomes. So why should anyone support this economic setup?

    Feel free, go ahead and print yourself a few billion dollars.
    It would be pointless to respond to a premise I don't agree with.

    Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "To exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine." - Pope Leo XIII

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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yet that's our economic reality. We have increased production but lower incomes. So why should anyone support this economic setup?
    Take a step back and look at reality.
    We do have increased production, not as a result of human labour, but as a result of human ingenuity.
    Prior to 1913, when money was gold and silver, our money supply was the result of human labour and its value remained relatively constant.
    Paper money has been used on occasion many times in the past, but quickly became unredeemable at face value in real money, gold or silver, much like all the things we spend our money on today.
    Could we return to gold as a currency? Obviously no, there simply isn't enough gold and if what exists were to be distributed equally around the world it would amount to less than an ounce per person.
    So we're pretty much confined to a fiat currency.
    And ask yourself, what is it that effects the price of things when you know that government will always take action to put an end to deflation?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It would be pointless to respond to a premise I don't agree with.

    Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And if I own a printing press, then why do I need any debt at all?
    Then be more careful when you post.

  6. #416
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    Re: Criticism of billionairism

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't know how often I can make this point. Wages aren't rising and they're lower than they were in the 70s.

    Should they be? Or is it equivalent pay for equivalent work?

    We visited this a little in another thread, but I thought here might be a better place to discuss it.

    Your chart take from a particular sub-section:
    "Number of males 15+ with wage and salary income"

    Charts that still show the year to year increases use:
    "Number of males 15+ with earnings"

    Here is an interesting insight, both of these subsections have gone down year to year as a percentage of males:

    "Number of males with wage and salary income"
    74% in 1967 to 64% 2017.

    "Number of males with earnings"
    80% in 1967 to 70% 2017.

    The all inclusive group that has stay consistent all that time at 90%:
    "Number of males 15+ with income"

    Those in the category, wage and salaried earnings, have stayed relatively consistent in terms of median since 1970, because jobs of this nature haven't changed much since 1970. That said 12% less males relay on these for their incomes.

    When you include nonwage/salaried earning(commissions and the like) and income without earning median still raises 13%, with these gains being in non wage/salaried earnings as seen by changes in the mean.

    That means, if we distribute all males into 4 income categories and contrast wage peak of 1972 and 2017, in 2017 dollars:

    1972:
    8% No income
    31% under 25,000
    47% 25,000-75,000
    14% 75,000+:

    2017:
    10% No Income [Avg Schooling doubled / more seniors]
    28% under 25,000
    40% 25,000-75,000
    22% 75,000+:

    So basically your argument is circular as today the money is in commission and investment.

    Males working full-time is down 13%. Part-time 11%. The fact despite this income for everyone is up seems to me a good thing, but than I think passive income is better than worked income.
    Last edited by Conaeolos; 02-12-19 at 01:14 AM.

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