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Thread: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mounting

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Did Reagan do that, or did Congress? Congress/Obama? Congress passed and Obama signed?

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You do realize that not everything that happens during a President's term is due to his single-handed efforts, right? He just waves his hand and FICA rates go up? While it's true FICA has changed many times, mostly because of SS/Medicare's faulty business models.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    You do realize that not everything that happens during a President's term is due to his single-handed efforts, right? He just waves his hand and FICA rates go up? While it's true FICA has changed many times, mostly because of SS/Medicare's faulty business models.
    Correct. If there is some confusion on your part how a bill (e.g. to raise FICA rates or raise the wage cap) becomes a law, the short cartoon explains it nicely.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Correct. If there is some confusion on your part how a bill (e.g. to raise FICA rates or raise the wage cap) becomes a law, the short cartoon explains it nicely.
    No confusion at all. In fact you just demonstrated my point all along. Saying "Reagan (or whoever) raised FICA" is disingenuous, at best. Presidents can, and frequently do campaign on "Saving Social Security or Medicare" but the nuts and bolts are done in the Senate and the House who follow your School House Rock vid.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    No confusion at all. In fact you just demonstrated my point all along. Saying "Reagan (or whoever) raised FICA" is disingenuous, at best. Presidents can, and frequently do campaign on "Saving Social Security or Medicare" but the nuts and bolts are done in the Senate and the House who follow your School House Rock vid.
    Of course, but you're just moving goal posts around because every time you assert something on this thread it's proved wrong. You asked what role Congress or the President had in raising payroll taxes and I responded, referencing the many "FICA" tax rate increases DURING Reagan's era, the tax increases by expanding caps while Clinton was President, and rate increases on upper income people while Obama was President.

    And the reality is people talk about the "Reagan" tax cuts, not the Democratic House and Republican Senate tax cuts of 1981. Same with the "Bush" tax cuts or the "Clinton" tax increases. That's how we discuss these things, it's short hand, but everyone knows how budgets work, that they in fact go through Congress first.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    [QUOTE=JasperL;1069385855]Of course, but you're just moving goal posts around because every time you assert something on this thread it's proved wrong. You asked what role Congress or the President had in raising payroll taxes and I responded, referencing the many "FICA" tax rate increases DURING Reagan's era, the tax increases by expanding caps while Clinton was President, and rate increases on upper income people while Obama was President.

    First off you're lying about my question which was:

    Did Reagan do that, or did Congress? Congress/Obama? Congress passed and Obama signed?
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    And the reality is people talk about the "Reagan" tax cuts, not the Democratic House and Republican Senate tax cuts of 1981. Same with the "Bush" tax cuts or the "Clinton" tax increases. That's how we discuss these things, it's short hand, but everyone knows how budgets work, that they in fact go through Congress first.
    Well, yeah, duh! Reagan was instrumental in getting his cuts turned into law as was Trump - the driving force in each case. However I have never hear any of the modifications to FICA called "the Reagan FICA hikes" because he was essentially a passive participant - his biggest contribution was signing the bill.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's true if you forget the Clinton years.
    Or the Obama years.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    First off you're lying about my question which was:
    Your question wasn't a good one because EVERY bill is passed by the House, the Senate, then signed by POTUS. Every one, including all the changes to FICA rates and limits.



    Well, yeah, duh! Reagan was instrumental in getting his cuts turned into law as was Trump - the driving force in each case. However I have never hear any of the modifications to FICA called "the Reagan FICA hikes" because he was essentially a passive participant - his biggest contribution was signing the bill.
    Sure, Reagan was instrumental in getting his tax cuts through, and Clinton was instrumental in getting the surplus producing tax increases through. What you guys do is give credit to Reagan and ignore the Democratic House that passed those "Reagan" tax cuts when it's good, and then give the GOP Congress credit for the Clinton-era surplus, while of course blaming Clinton as a tax-raisin liberal stealin our hard earned money! in all other contexts. It's funny and intellectually dishonest... It's also one reason why I left the GOP.

    And you're just wrong about Reagan's role in the FICA tax increases. He appointed a commission to study the issue, named Greenspan to it, and worked with Tip O'Neill on that deal and lauded it when it was completed. So he actively supported the goals and conclusion of this commission, and actively supported the legislation, which were tax increases and reductions in benefits. Without Reagan that deal does not happen. It's just...history.

    https://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...it-can-be-done

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Your question wasn't a good one because EVERY bill is passed by the House, the Senate, then signed by POTUS. Every one, including all the changes to FICA rates and limits.
    of course.




    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    Sure, Reagan was instrumental in getting his tax cuts through, and Clinton was instrumental in getting the surplus producing tax increases through.
    uh, not so sure on Clinton.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    What you guys do is give credit to Reagan and ignore the Democratic House that passed those "Reagan" tax cuts when it's good, and then give the GOP Congress credit for the Clinton-era surplus, while of course blaming Clinton as a tax-raisin liberal stealin our hard earned money! in all other contexts. It's funny and intellectually dishonest... It's also one reason why I left the GOP.
    LOL, I have not idea where you're going with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL

    And you're just wrong about Reagan's role in the FICA tax increases. He appointed a commission to study the issue, named Greenspan to it, and worked with Tip O'Neill on that deal and lauded it when it was completed. So he actively supported the goals and conclusion of this commission, and actively supported the legislation, which were tax increases and reductions in benefits. Without Reagan that deal does not happen. It's just...history.

    https://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...it-can-be-done
    So that makes ONE. There have been numerous FICA changes.
    Last edited by Bullseye; 12-08-18 at 12:31 AM.

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    Re: 'Yeah, but I won't be here': Trump lays bare the GOP's hypocritical double standard around mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    of course.
    uh, not so sure on Clinton.
    LOL, I have not idea where you're going with this.
    So that makes ONE. There have been numerous FICA changes.
    I've lost the point of this conversation. And I know there have been numerous FICA changes because you asked and I pointed out the major ones from Reagan forward to you. At any rate, we've hit the end.

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