the reason for deficits

KLATTU · Oct 22, 2018

The Gop tax cut has a small role, but mostly it's the spending. To those who think we can 'tax ' our way of this, the chart should disabuse you of that naive notion.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2018

The idea that taxation sufficient to cover government spending is merely an option is the cause of deficits. Why not go 'whole hog' and simply claim that deficits themselves are really just tax cuts. After all, the people were given an extra $779B of federal spending in FY 2018 which the taxpayers did not have to do without. To assert that only part of that federal deficit was due to tax cuts when none of that deficit spending was required to be paid for by taxpayers is silly.

MrWonka · Oct 22, 2018

KLATTU said:
The Gop tax cut has a small role, but mostly it's the spending. To those who think we can 'tax ' our way of this, the chart should disabuse you of that naive notion.

Where did you come up with this nonsense? Did one of your kids finally show you how to use photoshop?

Even the right-wing CATO institute knows better than this.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/budget-deficits-are-only-getting-bigger-under-trump

The Trump tax cuts are estimated to have reduced federal revenues by roughly $230 billion already, and by $2.3 trillion over ten years.

Worse, there is no sign that either the Trump administration or congressional Republicans get it. The Trump administration continues to rely on growth projections that are considerably higher than those of the Congressional Budget Office or independent analysts. The administration also ignores warnings that the trade war it is pursuing could reduce U.S. GDP by hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Nor does the administration consider that the increase in debt will itself reduce economic growth.

They're still wrong about a bunch of other nonsense, but if you can't even get a right wings source like them to support your lie then you know it's a really bad lie.

JasperL · Oct 22, 2018

KLATTU said:
The Gop tax cut has a small role, but mostly it's the spending. To those who think we can 'tax ' our way of this, the chart should disabuse you of that naive notion.

Why is that? The chart says nothing at all about our ability to raise taxes and at least reduce the deficit. What it does show is in the presence of predicted deficits for as far as the eye can see, the GOP cut revenues and did nothing to reduce spending, thus making the deficits worse.

Conservative · Oct 22, 2018

JasperL said:
Why is that? The chart says nothing at all about our ability to raise taxes and at least reduce the deficit. What it does show is in the presence of predicted deficits for as far as the eye can see, the GOP cut revenues and did nothing to reduce spending, thus making the deficits worse.

Raising taxes obviously benefits you or you wouldn't have this passion so tell us how you are benefiting from higher taxes because higher taxes don't increase economic activity and hurts states and local governments? Tell me the Trump budget doesn't propose reduced spending?

JasperL · Oct 22, 2018

Conservative said:
Raising taxes obviously benefits you or you wouldn't have this passion so tell us how you are benefiting from higher taxes because higher taxes don't increase economic activity and hurts states and local governments? Tell me the Trump budget doesn't propose reduced spending?

LOL, what I love about you is your consistency. Once again, you completely ignore my point to beat straw men and repeat worn out talking points. :roll:

Conservative · Oct 22, 2018

JasperL said:
LOL, what I love about you is your consistency. Once again, you completely ignore my point to beat straw men and repeat worn out talking points. :roll:

Yes in order to get through to radical left leaning zealots you have to say the same thing over and over and over again as eventually it will sink in but probably in your case it is going to take years. Seems your point has been addressed over and over again but your ideology will never allow you to admit you are wrong. Eventually you will realize that raising taxes doesn't go towards deficit reduction but just expansion of the power in the federal govt. which apparently does benefit you. Where is the guarantee that the federal bureaucrats will use higher taxes to lower the deficits and spending? Where then does your state get its money when you raise federal taxes as more citizen dollars are leaving the state? Are you capable of understanding that people keeping less of their own money don't travel as much which affects excise taxes, don't spend as much which affects sales taxes, don't have the better jobs which affects FICA taxes and Income Taxes. Rather strange that someone who claims to own a business doesn't grasp reality

Helix · Oct 22, 2018

MrWonka said:
Where did you come up with this nonsense? Did one of your kids finally show you how to use photoshop?

Even the right-wing CATO institute knows better than this.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/budget-deficits-are-only-getting-bigger-under-trump

They're still wrong about a bunch of other nonsense, but if you can't even get a right wings source like them to support your lie then you know it's a really bad lie.

the mistake that you're making is that you're in real reality using actual facts and logic. there is an alternate reality in which you just make **** up, and when you say it out loud, it becomes automatically true. stuff like "massive tax cuts don't increase the deficit! they pay for themselves."

see? there you go. now it's alternatively true!

Conservative · Oct 22, 2018

Helix said:
the mistake that you're making is that you're in real reality using actual facts and logic. there is an alternate reality in which you just make **** up, and when you say it out loud, it becomes automatically true. stuff like "massive tax cuts don't increase the deficit! they pay for themselves."

see? there you go. now it's alternatively true!

How you coming on providing Treasury data to support your claims that tax cuts cause massive deficits or are you so married to the federal bureaucrats that you buy that they need the money more than you and your family? Interesting how allowing people to keep more of their own money bothers you so much and how you believe that giving more to the govt. will be used for deficit reduction? Oh, by the way where does the state and local governments get their money when more goes to the federal bureaucrats in tax revenue?

Oborosen · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
How you coming on providing Treasury data to support your claims that tax cuts cause massive deficits or are you so married to the federal bureaucrats that you buy that they need the money more than you and your family? Interesting how allowing people to keep more of their own money bothers you so much and how you believe that giving more to the govt. will be used for deficit reduction? Oh, by the way where does the state and local governments get their money when more goes to the federal bureaucrats in tax revenue?

I they all just watched one CNN panel and now think that they're all accredited finance analyst.

Conservative · Oct 23, 2018

Oborosen said:
I they all just watched one CNN panel and now think that they're all accredited finance analyst.

You will notice that you never get data from the left and nothing will ever change their mind. People keeping more of what they earn truly bothers the left as it costs them power. People keeping more of what they earn means they need the radical left less. They will always run when confronted but always come back with the same arguments over and over again normally on different threads, right out of the leftwing playbook.

Not one Democrat can offer a valid reason to support a Democrat in the Midterms as Trump isn't on the ballot but his economic policies and record is. When asked to explain what in that record bothers the left you get nothing but threads like this one blaming tax cuts for deficits when there were 4 straight years of trillion dollar deficits under Obama. They have nothing but hatred, divisiveness, class envy, jealousy and stand for nothing other than creating more dependence and giving the bureaucrats in D.C. more money to spend taking it from the states and local communities

Media_Truth · Oct 23, 2018

Republicans = Higher Deficits....

ludin · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
You will notice that you never get data from the left and nothing will ever change their mind. People keeping more of what they earn truly bothers the left as it costs them power. People keeping more of what they earn means they need the radical left less. They will always run when confronted but always come back with the same arguments over and over again normally on different threads, right out of the leftwing playbook.

Not one Democrat can offer a valid reason to support a Democrat in the Midterms as Trump isn't on the ballot but his economic policies and record is. When asked to explain what in that record bothers the left you get nothing but threads like this one blaming tax cuts for deficits when there were 4 straight years of trillion dollar deficits under Obama. They have nothing but hatred, divisiveness, class envy, jealousy and stand for nothing other than creating more dependence and giving the bureaucrats in D.C. more money to spend taking it from the states and local communities

Obama raised taxes and was still running trillion dollar deficits. The deficit didn't go down until they went into sequestering and basically froze all spending and cut spending back.
the problem is our government continues to spend more and more money with no reduction in government costs or revamping programs to cut back on cost.

honestly we need a full audit of every department and slam these people for embezzlement really and misuse of government funds.

Conservative · Oct 23, 2018

Media_Truth said:
Republicans = Higher Deficits....

View attachment 67242700

Again your chart it pretty but tells us nothing and you ignore that the Obama deficits are included in those large Blue increases and exceed the Bush deficits or can't you read your own chart? for some reason you believe declining deficits that were still higher than any under Bush is a good thing showing again just how partisan you are and how you are unable to even read the charts. 2019-2020 are PROJECTIONS!!

Conservative · Oct 23, 2018

ludin said:
Obama raised taxes and was still running trillion dollar deficits. The deficit didn't go down until they went into sequestering and basically froze all spending and cut spending back.
the problem is our government continues to spend more and more money with no reduction in government costs or revamping programs to cut back on cost.

honestly we need a full audit of every department and slam these people for embezzlement really and misuse of government funds.

Exactly, you know that, I know that but the radical left continues to ignore the reality. The chart touted by another poster shows that although the deficit was declining it remained higher than any other deficits during the Bush term and believes that 2019 and 2020 have already happened. This is nothing but partisan ignorance of reality. Makes you wonder what it is about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty?

Media_Truth · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
Again your chart it pretty but tells us nothing and you ignore that the Obama deficits are included in those large Blue increases and exceed the Bush deficits or can't you read your own chart? for some reason you believe declining deficits that were still higher than any under Bush is a good thing showing again just how partisan you are and how you are unable to even read the charts. 2019-2020 are PROJECTIONS!!

I believe that GW Bush was president in 2008. Look at that syrocketing deficit, up to $1.4 trillions. Facts are facts, and you continue to ignore them.

Conservative · Oct 23, 2018

Media_Truth said:
I believe that GW Bush was president in 2008. Look at that syrocketing deficit, up to $1.4 trillions. Facts are facts, and you continue to ignore them.

Yes he was and was President 7 years prior but that reality is ignored. I am still waiting for you to explain how Bush without a budget for 2009 created that deficit with ZERO spending authority?? Please stop sounding like a fool here and learn the difference between deficit and debt. The BUSH PROPOSED budget was REJECTED and the 2009 budget was signed by Obama in March yet you blame Bush for the 2009 deficit. Was the Obama 842 billion stimulus, Bush's? What the take over of GM/Chrysler Bush's? Was the recycling of TARP Bush's? Was the AIT bailout Bush's? Was the Afghanistan Supplemental Bush's? At least try to be honest on this issue instead of solely partisan

jonny5 · Oct 23, 2018

KLATTU said:
The Gop tax cut has a small role, but mostly it's the spending. To those who think we can 'tax ' our way of this, the chart should disabuse you of that naive notion.

View attachment 67242630

The reason is the same as its always been, social spending, which now consumes 3 trillion of revenue. Thats 90% of every dollar collected.

Media_Truth · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
Yes he was and was President 7 years prior but that reality is ignored. I am still waiting for you to explain how Bush without a budget for 2009 created that deficit with ZERO spending authority?? Please stop sounding like a fool here and learn the difference between deficit and debt. The BUSH PROPOSED budget was REJECTED and the 2009 budget was signed by Obama in March yet you blame Bush for the 2009 deficit. Was the Obama 842 billion stimulus, Bush's? What the take over of GM/Chrysler Bush's? Was the recycling of TARP Bush's? Was the AIT bailout Bush's? Was the Afghanistan Supplemental Bush's? At least try to be honest on this issue instead of solely partisan

Back in 2008, by best friend, a staunch Conservative like yourself, and I had a discussion. We agreed that things were so screwed up, that whoever won the election, McCain or Obama, would have a very rough 4 years. Cheney/Bush --- worst presidential pass-on since the Great Depression. Once Obama fixed the Cheney/Bush fiasco, the deficit dropped very nicely under him. Now it is skyrocketing again, under Trump.

manofknowledge · Oct 23, 2018

jonny5 said:
The reason is the same as its always been, social spending, which now consumes 3 trillion of revenue. Thats 90% of every dollar collected.

What social spending? Social Security, Medicare are fully funded by direct payroll tax revenue and premium payments. Medicaid is one tenth of the budget but states depend on it as a revenue source. Food and housing support for the poor is a minisule amount for the budget. You can't cut your way out of these deficits. Additional revenue is the only solution.

Conservative · Oct 23, 2018

Media_Truth said:
Back in 2008, by best friend, a staunch Conservative like yourself, and I had a discussion. We agreed that things were so screwed up, that whoever won the election, McCain or Obama, would have a very rough 4 years. Cheney/Bush --- worst presidential pass-on since the Great Depression. Once Obama fixed the Cheney/Bush fiasco, the deficit dropped very nicely under him. Now it is skyrocketing again, under Trump.

Yes things were screwed up and it was done by BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans not just Bush. I see no evidence that it would take four years to clean up that mess as that is what TARP did in recapitalizing the banks and the recession ended in June, a recession that affected fewer Americans than any other recession in history. There was no GREAT RECESSION but rather a marketing tool by the Democrats that you bought but none of this addresses the issue of the deficits which you continue to want to blame on Bush. Deficits are not inherited they are created and Bush didn't have the authority to create those deficits you blame on him.

Further declining deficits that created 9.3 TRILLION in debt isn't something to be touted and celebrated like you are trying to do. We pay debt service on DEBT not DEFICITS and dropping deficit that created the 9.3 trillion dollar debt by your standards could have been worse and that is what you want to ignore as if the 9.3 trillion isn't that bad. That 9.3 trillion is more debt than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined in 20 years.

Blue Dog · Oct 23, 2018

There are going to be deficits because neither party really cares about creating a surplus. The DC mindset is spend first, worry later. Fiscal conservativism is campaign rhetoric until that party gets a hold of the purse strings.

Jmo

manofknowledge · Oct 23, 2018

jonny5 said:
The reason is the same as its always been, social spending, which now consumes 3 trillion of revenue. Thats 90% of every dollar collected.

The only thing your chart shows is that revenue collections are too low to start with.

Media_Truth · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
Yes things were screwed up and it was done by BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans not just Bush. I see no evidence that it would take four years to clean up that mess as that is what TARP did in recapitalizing the banks and the recession ended in June, a recession that affected fewer Americans than any other recession in history. There was no GREAT RECESSION but rather a marketing tool by the Democrats that you bought but none of this addresses the issue of the deficits which you continue to want to blame on Bush. Deficits are not inherited they are created and Bush didn't have the authority to create those deficits you blame on him.

Further declining deficits that created 9.3 TRILLION in debt isn't something to be touted and celebrated like you are trying to do. We pay debt service on DEBT not DEFICITS and dropping deficit that created the 9.3 trillion dollar debt by your standards could have been worse and that is what you want to ignore as if the 9.3 trillion isn't that bad. That 9.3 trillion is more debt than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined in 20 years.

It's fashionable to blame both Parties for the Cheney/Bush mess, but they had 8 years to understand the pulse of the nation, the economy, the foreign policy, and get things right. They were in way over their heads. Any accrued debt in the years required to fix their mess, is on them!

manofknowledge · Oct 23, 2018

Conservative said:
Yes things were screwed up and it was done by BOTH the Democrats and the Republicans not just Bush. I see no evidence that it would take four years to clean up that mess as that is what TARP did in recapitalizing the banks and the recession ended in June, a recession that affected fewer Americans than any other recession in history. There was no GREAT RECESSION but rather a marketing tool by the Democrats that you bought but none of this addresses the issue of the deficits which you continue to want to blame on Bush. Deficits are not inherited they are created and Bush didn't have the authority to create those deficits you blame on him.

Further declining deficits that created 9.3 TRILLION in debt isn't something to be touted and celebrated like you are trying to do. We pay debt service on DEBT not DEFICITS and dropping deficit that created the 9.3 trillion dollar debt by your standards could have been worse and that is what you want to ignore as if the 9.3 trillion isn't that bad. That 9.3 trillion is more debt than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined in 20 years.

You completely ignore the two wars started by Bush that he did not finance. Congress gave him that authority. Bush recommended tax cuts in 2003. Congress passed them. Yes Obama inherited incredibly irresponsible fiscal policy from the previous administration. He changed the way the war costs were accounted for which increased the deficits during his administration. Tax revenues were down $470 billion between 2007 and 2009. Unemployment was at 10% at its peak. The stock market dropped by 40%. I'd say the recession affected quite a few people.

the reason for deficits

KLATTU

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

MrWonka

JasperL

Conservative

JasperL

Conservative

Helix

Conservative

Oborosen

Doctor D

Conservative

Media_Truth

ludin

Conservative

Conservative

Media_Truth

Conservative

jonny5

Media_Truth

manofknowledge

Well-known member

Conservative

Blue Dog

Mugwump

manofknowledge

Well-known member

Media_Truth

manofknowledge

Well-known member