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Canada wins trade deal!!!!

The idea that it is bad for the U.S. to buy products and services from other countries, while other countries buy U.S. products and services (e.g. multi-nationalism), displays profound ignorance. Prior to the Great Depression, there was international trade. One of the worsening causes of the Great Depression was the tariffs both sides imposed, like the Smoot–Hawley Tariff.

Now, anyone who looks at the actual effects of international trade knows that trade isn’t just about selling stuff, it’s about getting better, cheaper stuff both to consume and to use as inputs in production. If we encourage everything to be made here, then our products will contain more expensive inputs that will result in more expensive outputs, that will not sell on the world market.

The only profound ignorance is sitting back and letting industry after industry become a hollow shell while production moved to cheaper labor off shore. Other service companies outsourced their workforce and laid off their citizen employees, forcing US citizens to train their replacements in return for severance pay. Even the Teamsters shafted their own members by allowing Mexican drivers to cross our borders with impunity at 1/3rd the American Teamsters road rate.

In theory, it was all supposed to balance out. It didn’t. Those thing happen. But our leaders signed the treaties and went back to sleep and let our competitors rape our country and it’s workforce and didn’t do a damn thing about it.

It is profoundly ignorant to try to defend a 600 billion a year deficit with China - another even worse trade deal, made worse by the same hand that signed NAFTA. I can’t see how the democrats still have the audacity to pawn themselves off as “the leader of the party of the working man!” Trump is stealing your cheese while you march around in cat ears!

So much for the Arkansas School of Economics. You are in Trump world now, where things get done.
 
Oh you did! You won the same concessions you had under TPP. Just had to put the conflict resolution process back into the agreement to get what you had before Trump tossed it all away, that's all.
You now have access to 3.something % of Canada's dairy market.

take that, Canadians.
 
A tax or duty to be paid on a particular class of imports or exports.

Which means the price of a certain item increases or decreases for the buyer.

...which means that the product we import becomes more expensive, so it becomes more profitable to produce that product here. Tariffs lead to more of that particular product being made domestically.

Steel tariffs are why American steel companies are producing more steel, at an artificially inflated price. It's also why every business that uses steel is suffering.
 
The only profound ignorance is sitting back and letting industry after industry become a hollow shell while production moved to cheaper labor off shore. Other service companies outsourced their workforce and laid off their citizen employees, forcing US citizens to train their replacements in return for severance pay. Even the Teamsters shafted their own members by allowing Mexican drivers to cross our borders with impunity at 1/3rd the American Teamsters road rate.

In theory, it was all supposed to balance out. It didn’t. Those thing happen. But our leaders signed the treaties and went back to sleep and let our competitors rape our country and it’s workforce and didn’t do a damn thing about it.

It is profoundly ignorant to try to defend a 600 billion a year deficit with China - another even worse trade deal, made worse by the same hand that signed NAFTA. I can’t see how the democrats still have the audacity to pawn themselves off as “the leader of the party of the working man!” Trump is stealing your cheese while you march around in cat ears!

So much for the Arkansas School of Economics. You are in Trump world now, where things get done.

Let's look at this "hollow shell" of industry. The U.S. produces three times as much as it did in 1975.

fredgraph.png


You and Trump have a fixation with America’s trade deficit. Fortunately, only a small group of experts share this fixation, and few see tariffs as an effective tool to narrow the so-called trade gap. While Trump say that the country “lost $500 billion” a year to China, most economists do not see the trade gap as money “lost” to other countries, nor do they worry about trade deficits to a large degree. That’s because trade imbalances are affected by a host of macroeconomic factors, including the relative growth rates of countries, the value of their currencies, and their saving and investment rates. For instance, America’s trade deficit narrowed dramatically during the Great Recession, when national consumption faltered. Was that a good thing?

Moreover, bilateral trade deficits are not a good measure of whether countries are living up to their promises on market access, or whether certain countries are better negotiators of trade agreements. If one compares the global economy to a neighborhood. Consumers might spend a lot of money with a shopkeeper who never buys anything from their store in return, but they also receive money from other customers whose stores they never frequent.
 
take that, Canadians.

It's not a bad deal from a Canadian perspective, from the little I've read of it. The concession on dairy is minor. The US went from 3.25% of our domestic market to 3.75, if what I read is right- a small thing to give up for the sake of keeping the conflict resolution process that Trump said was absolutely off the table.
I have two concerns that I want to find out about. I want to know if the US still can buy Canadian oil at Canadian domestic prices as under NAFTA and I want to know if the tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum, as imposed when NAFTA was still in place, are still in place. Because that was about the most underhanded sucker-punch one 'ally' ever delivered to another.
 
...which means that the product we import becomes more expensive, so it becomes more profitable to produce that product here. Tariffs lead to more of that particular product being made domestically.

Steel tariffs are why American steel companies are producing more steel, at an artificially inflated price. It's also why every business that uses steel is suffering.
To elaborate, whether the input (e.g. steel or aluminum) is imported or made domestically, the price rises due to tariffs. Why? The imported steel rises in price due to the tariff and domestic producers raise the price because the price of imported steel rose.

The result is that domestically produced finished products, like cars, cost more. That's a cost to domestic consumers and makes domestic cars more expensive to export.
 
...which means that the product we import becomes more expensive, so it becomes more profitable to produce that product here. Tariffs lead to more of that particular product being made domestically.

Steel tariffs are why American steel companies are producing more steel, at an artificially inflated price. It's also why every business that uses steel is suffering.

Tariffs make a short-term, small-market kind of sense when applied against manufactured products that compete with domestic manufacturers. Applied against the raw materials that domestic manufacturers rely on, businesses that compete globally with other companies manufacturing the same things, it's economic suicide. Why anyone would think it's a smart move to make steel and aluminum more expensive in the US than in Canada or Mexico or China or anywhere else in the world is beyond me.
 
What did China get shut out of? A free trade agreement with the US?
The quote (wherever it's from) says Canada and Mexico have the same veto over the US in trade agreements.

China, among other countries, just lost their ability to use the NAFTA loophole.
 
Tariffs make a short-term, small-market kind of sense when applied against manufactured products that compete with domestic manufacturers. Applied against the raw materials that domestic manufacturers rely on, businesses that compete globally with other companies manufacturing the same things, it's economic suicide. Why anyone would think it's a smart move to make steel and aluminum more expensive in the US than in Canada or Mexico or China or anywhere else in the world is beyond me.

Trump doesn't play chess, he plays checkers. His followers wouldn't understand chess anyway. They can only see the move he is making right now. Take an opportunistic picture with happy steelworkers, and move on to something else.

Our steelworkers, btw, aren't seeing those increased profits in their paychecks. Who could have seen that coming?
 
China, among other countries, just lost their ability to use the NAFTA loophole.

Oh bull****. NAFTA loophole. You guys are scraping around the bottom of an empty barrel.

edit- anything to say about the wording in that quote and Canada and Mexico having the same veto the US has?
 
Canada hardly produces anything anymore; they have become dependent on other countries' goods in order to assemble goods - which means they are the shop floor crew for China.

This new deal - USMCA - gives Canada the chance to pull its head out of its ass.


"The hard work of improving the competitiveness of Canada's industries and our chronically weak productivity must begin now. ... "

https://business.financialpost.com/...-deal-wont-heal-canadas-self-inflicted-wounds
 
It's not a bad deal from a Canadian perspective, from the little I've read of it. The concession on dairy is minor. The US went from 3.25% of our domestic market to 3.75, if what I read is right- a small thing to give up for the sake of keeping the conflict resolution process that Trump said was absolutely off the table.
I have two concerns that I want to find out about. I want to know if the US still can buy Canadian oil at Canadian domestic prices as under NAFTA and I want to know if the tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum, as imposed when NAFTA was still in place, are still in place. Because that was about the most underhanded sucker-punch one 'ally' ever delivered to another.

my two concerns are :

1. i want to see Trump's ability to unilaterally enact tariffs rescinded.

2. i want to see Trumpism rescinded. i look forward to voting against it.
 
Oh bull****. NAFTA loophole. You guys are scraping around the bottom of an empty barrel.

edit- anything to say about the wording in that quote and Canada and Mexico having the same veto the US has?

That wording applies to all three countries.

But tell me, do you deny the existence of the NAFTA Loophole? Do you even know what it is?
 
That wording applies to all three countries.

But tell me, do you deny the existence of the NAFTA Loophole? Do you even know what it is?

No, I don't know what the 'NAFTA loophole' is. Never heard of it. It sounds like something contrived by a special-interest group. I'll read a link if you provide one.
 

No. That's not any use to anyone. It's bull****, top to bottom. Nothing is going to change in that department EXCEPT for this loophole- Canada and Mexico will go into this new agreement in good faith, working with the letter of the deal, and the US will break the deal anyway it sees fit anytime it thinks the deal doesnt favour America. That's the history, the precedent, and there's no reason to think that will change.
A deal with America is only worth what the paper it's wriiten on.
 
No. That's not any use to anyone. It's bull****, top to bottom. Nothing is going to change in that department EXCEPT for this loophole- Canada and Mexico will go into this new agreement in good faith, working with the letter of the deal, and the US will break the deal anyway it sees fit anytime it thinks the deal doesnt favour America. That's the history, the precedent, and there's no reason to think that will change.
A deal with America is only worth what the paper it's wriiten on.

shrug...

You asked what the loophole is. That article explains it very well. It also explains how the USMCA removes it.

Of course, you are free to deny the whole thing. Doesn't change the reality, though. Doesn't change the fact that Canada will have to change...or get shut out of the US/Mexico market.
 
shrug...

You asked what the loophole is. That article explains it very well. It also explains how the USMCA removes it.

Of course, you are free to deny the whole thing. Doesn't change the reality, though. Doesn't change the fact that Canada will have to change...or get shut out of the US/Mexico market.

Gawd. Do you even read the links you post?
Bad news, bud. Canada is going to continue taking your lunch money. We just got what we wanted from you and its on top of our deals with Europe and the TPP. Meanwhile your genius president continues to isolate the US in a global economy.
 
Gawd. Do you even read the links you post?
Bad news, bud. Canada is going to continue taking your lunch money. We just got what we wanted from you and its on top of our deals with Europe and the TPP. Meanwhile your genius president continues to isolate the US in a global economy.

Can you present anything but tough-boy rhetoric to dispute the article?
 
Can you present anything but tough-boy rhetoric to dispute the article?

Considering the article is nothing but 'tough-boy rhetoric', why would I bother?
 
...which means that the product we import becomes more expensive, so it becomes more profitable to produce that product here. Tariffs lead to more of that particular product being made domestically.

Steel tariffs are why American steel companies are producing more steel, at an artificially inflated price. It's also why every business that uses steel is suffering.

The only caveat is that when that tariff is applied to raw materials and parts.. that are used in domestic manufacturing of other products. THEN it can overall cause LESS manufacturing to occur because prices increase for products made here.. but with parts/raw materials made in other countries.
 
Considering the article is nothing but 'tough-boy rhetoric', why would I bother?

shrug...

Trump campaigned on dumping the NAFTA loophole and he did it.

Sorry about that.
 
Since Trumpers are ignorant, they will believe this deal is not the exact same agreement Obama had laid down before leaving office.
 
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