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Should Americans that Want the Wall Built Pay More Income Tax To Fund the Wall?

HumblePi said:
If you had been following the month+ long journey of the "caravan of illegals", as Trump put it, you would have seen how they accomplished this. Many people coming from El Salvador took high interest loans from (MS13), Barrio 18 or Eighteenth Street gang (B18) or any one of the more than 100 gangs in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala in order to be able to flee the death threats, tyranny and oppression created by these gangs. They certainly didn't walk two thousand miles to the borders of Arizona and Texas. The caravans were guided sometime by coyotes. Some people paid coyotes or relatives to move their children North even though it meant they may never see them again, they wanted their kids to have a safer and better life than where they came from. Many came on trains such as this where people along the route throughout Mexico brought food and other things to them on their stops. Remember that these people weren't just fleeing to the U.S., they were fleeing away from their misery in Central America, which by the way, the U.S. helped to create. But that's a whole other thread.

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so the train crashed through the wall?

Still makes my point, it did not stop them.

BTW, this is one incident, people flee poverty and violence every day of the week.
 
Logician Man said:
So you're real concern is money,not the lives of the unborn....got it.
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My concern is for the lives of the unborn. That's why I do not want my taxes to fund the procedures that kill them. I don't write the laws. All I can do is vote for pro-life politicians and speak out when I can.
 
Let's go ahead and make tax contributions distribution assigned by taxpayer electives (their taxes go to items they support and not to the items they don't).

I wonder how abortion would fare?
 
ObamacareFail said:
We'll just take it out of the funds going to the baby killing clinics under the guise of "Planned Parenthood".
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That would be alright with me, as the saying goes, 'I don't have a dog in that fight'. But just so you know, I don't believe you care one bit about 'baby killings' or even understand what services Planned Parenthood preforms. For instance, were you aware that Planned Parenthood actually prevents unwanted pregnancies through education and contraception? Did you know that the number of unintended pregnancies averted by Planned Parenthood contraceptive services each year is around 515,000? Are you aware that the estimated number of abortions averted by Planned Parenthood contraceptive services each year is 216,000?

Based on available state-level data, approximately 893,000 abortions took place in the United States in 2016—down from approximately 914,000 abortions in 2015. The majority of those abortions were performed on women living below the poverty level so guess who would be paying for the health and welfare of those 893,000 children if they had been born to women who didn't want their lives changed by an unwanted pregnancy? We would be paying for those 893,000 unwanted children. Does that make you feel any better now?
 
HumblePi said:
There have already been several different fundraisers where contributors can donate their own money to fund the building of the wall. 'Buy A Brick For the Wall', 'Border Wall Bricks' and 'Bricks for Trump' are only a few, there's tons of them online trying to grab money from unsuspecting Trump supporters who believe this money will actually go directly to Trump to build the wall. So, a word to the wise, be cautious there.

My question, and I'm serious here, is whether or not Republican supporters of Trump and the wall want it so badly that they would be willing to have their income taxed at a higher rate each week with the express intention that this increase be deposited directly into a government piggy bank in order to fund the wall?
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Should Americans have had the choice not to buy healthcare plans after they were promised that they could keep their original HC plan and doctor.

Should Democrats pay more as a penalty for not coming through with that $2500.00 per year that they all promised that we'd save??

Ya'll bitch about a wall.
 
ObamacareFail said:
My concern is for the lives of the unborn. That's why I do not want my taxes to fund the procedures that kill them. I don't write the laws. All I can do is vote for pro-life politicians and speak out when I can.
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PP does much more than perform abortions,and they certainly do not recruit anyone to have an abortion.
 
noonereal said:
No.

A wall is a horrific idea. The symbolism is positively satanic.

It cannot be built, period. With anyone's money.

Plus those that want it buit just don't have that kind of cash.
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Did you feel that way when John McCain voted to build a border wall? When Obama voted to build a border wall? When Hillary Clinton voted to build the border wall? Pelosi? Schumer? All the rest of the current seated democrats that also voted to build the wall?
 
VanceMack said:
Did you feel that way when John McCain voted to build a border wall? When Obama voted to build a border wall? When Hillary Clinton voted to build the border wall? Pelosi? Schumer? All the rest of the current seated democrats that also voted to build the wall?
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I am pragmatic. I defer to what the boarder patrol thinks best.

The kind of wall Trump wants is not supported by the patrol. It's about symbolism, hate to be exact.

We have some sections of wall now, where it makes sense.

I do not support a wall as a symbol, a symbol of hate.

BTW, I do not/did not support Hillary or Schumer as a rule. I am a registered Republican. (not a Trumpet)
 
HumblePi said:
That would be alright with me, as the saying goes, 'I don't have a dog in that fight'. But just so you know, I don't believe you care one bit about 'baby killings' or even understand what services Planned Parenthood preforms. For instance, were you aware that Planned Parenthood actually prevents unwanted pregnancies through education and contraception? Did you know that the number of unintended pregnancies averted by Planned Parenthood contraceptive services each year is around 515,000? Are you aware that the estimated number of abortions averted by Planned Parenthood contraceptive services each year is 216,000?

Based on available state-level data, approximately 893,000 abortions took place in the United States in 2016—down from approximately 914,000 abortions in 2015. The majority of those abortions were performed on women living below the poverty level so guess who would be paying for the health and welfare of those 893,000 children if they had been born to women who didn't want their lives changed by an unwanted pregnancy? We would be paying for those 893,000 unwanted children. Does that make you feel any better now?
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You lost me in the sentence following: "I don't have a dog in that fight". I did not read any further. If you are going to attempt to speak for me, why should I bother. Have a nice weeekend.
 
Logician Man said:
PP does much more than perform abortions
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However killing babies is their primary reason for existing. Read the history of PP, going all the way back to it's founder, who was quite heavily into eugenics.


,and they certainly do not recruit anyone to have an abortion.
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Bull****.
 
ObamacareFail said:
However killing babies is their primary reason for existing. Read the history of PP, going all the way back to it's founder, who was quite heavily into eugenics.




Bull****.
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No it isn't. What is your personal experience with Planned Parenthood?
 
ObamacareFail said:
What is yours?
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One of my grand daughters was going to abort. My wife and I offered to adopt and raise.She refused numerous times.So we convinced her to go to PP and talk with us and a PP counselor. It was both my wife,myself,and ultimately the PP counselor who finally convinced her to carry to term,and My wife and I now have another precious great grandson...Now,Please answer my question as fairly and honestly as I answered yours.Remember,I asked you first.
 
ObamacareFail said:
You lost me in the sentence following: "I don't have a dog in that fight". I did not read any further. If you are going to attempt to speak for me, why should I bother. Have a nice weeekend.
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"don't have a dog in this fight" means that I have no special reason to support or not support women's reproductive rights, it doesn't affect me either way. I do support their Constitutional rights because they have been set into U.S. law by the Supreme Court 30 years ago. So, it's okay, don't speak to me if you choose not to, 'No skin off my back' (something that you say which means you do not care about something because it will not affect you)
 
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noonereal said:
so the train crashed through the wall?

Still makes my point, it did not stop them.

BTW, this is one incident, people flee poverty and violence every day of the week.
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My point was that no border wall, whether it be 30 feet tall and 20 feet underground or 100 feet tall and 50 feet underground would have put a stop to the roughly 1,200 immigrants that traveled on 'the caravan'. They all came directly to designated border crossings. See my point yet? And simply because "people flee poverty and violence every day of the week" doesn't excuse us, as the 'good Christians' we pretend to be, to turn a blind eye to it.
 
HumblePi said:
It's really sad that men and woman who judge what any American citizen can do with their own body and want to take away their constitutional rights to birth control and abortion don't really care about the scores of children that were kidnapped by the U.S. government. People use religion as their shield and excuse for modifying and adjusting the will of the majority according to political affiliation.
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Idiots have managed to secure legality for murdering babies in the womb. God does not approve but what do idiots know about God? Idiots also advocate for the legality of man-boy rape in America, but so far people like Trump are standing firmly in their way, thank God.
 
marke said:
Idiots have managed to secure legality for murdering babies in the womb. God does not approve but what do idiots know about God? Idiots also advocate for the legality of man-boy rape in America, but so far people like Trump are standing firmly in their way, thank God.
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You assume and wrongly so, that ALL people share YOUR views on religion. The men that brought forth this country knew that there would be people that would seek to interject their religious beliefs and impose them on the will of all people. That's why these wise forefathers wrote a constitution that explicitly prohibited men from ruling this country on the basis of their own religious beliefs.

Thomas Jefferson wrote "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

So be a good citizen and keep YOUR religion and YOUR God out of OUR politics.

It's extremely hypocritical when people like you can express moral outrage that women have been given the right to choose what they do with their own body guaranteed by the Constitution and yet have no problem whatsoever with a man that is a serial womanizer, cheater, liar, kidnapper of children and hate inciter. Heresy isn't just a meaningless word. You pick and choose where your religious beliefs begin and end as if they are arbitrary.
 
noonereal said:
We have some sections of wall now, where it makes sense.
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Why? Why do we have segments of wall now and why does it make sense?
 
Risky Thicket said:
Do you actually want Trump's Wall? If so, why?
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Yes! It will be one more link to help keep people from crossing the Southern border.
Walls work. But remember the wall is just part of the tools to stop illegal immigration.


In 1986, the San Diego border patrol sector accounted for approximately one-third of all apprehensions along the U.S. Mexico border. Today, it accounts for only a small fraction. How did the region go from one of the busiest sectors for illegal border crossings, to one of the most secure? The Daily Signal’s Kelsey Harkness visits the U.S.-Mexico border in San Diego to find out.


Underreported: How Building a Border Wall Changed San Diego | The Daily Signal

 
Logician Man said:
One of my grand daughters was going to abort. My wife and I offered to adopt and raise.She refused numerous times.So we convinced her to go to PP and talk with us and a PP counselor. It was both my wife,myself,and ultimately the PP counselor who finally convinced her to carry to term,and My wife and I now have another precious great grandson...Now,Please answer my question as fairly and honestly as I answered yours.Remember,I asked you first.
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I have had no personal experiance with planned parenthood other then my taxes funding abortion counseling as well as abortions.
 
ObamacareFail said:
I have had no personal experiance with planned parenthood other then my taxes funding abortion counseling as well as abortions.
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You can ad pap smears and other vital health care for women to that list yours and my taxes pay for. Do you support helping women in need get vital health care? Proper healthcare,which PP also provides to women who desire to carry to term, and also helps saves the lives of the unborn. Do you support your tax dollars going to PP when it helps the unborn,as in the example I just presented?
 
Trump said we wouldn't have to pay for the wall.

I would be supportive of intelligently planned barriers, which were intelligently budgeted, by a president who wasn't stoking xenophobia.

But we do have a president who is stoking xenophobia, and he spent all the money we had and then some on tax cuts for the rich and more bloat for our already bloated defense budget. And he said we wouldn't have to pay for the wall.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Yes! It will be one more link to help keep people from crossing the Southern border.
Walls work. But remember the wall is just part of the tools to stop illegal immigration.


In 1986, the San Diego border patrol sector accounted for approximately one-third of all apprehensions along the U.S. Mexico border. Today, it accounts for only a small fraction. How did the region go from one of the busiest sectors for illegal border crossings, to one of the most secure? The Daily Signal’s Kelsey Harkness visits the U.S.-Mexico border in San Diego to find out.


Underreported: How Building a Border Wall Changed San Diego | The Daily Signal

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Border walls work across the rest of the world's borders, even on the Mexican Southern border, why wouldn't they work at the border between Mexico and the US?

More than 100 politicians murdered in Mexico ahead of election
https://www.cnbc.com/.../more-than-100-politicians-murdered-in-mexico-ahead-of-el...
Jun 26, 2018 - More than 100 politicians in Mexico have been killed since September in the lead-up to the country's election this Sunday, and more than ...

As Mexico's election day approaches, over 100 politicians have been ...
https://www.vox.com/.../mexico-election-murder-politicians-presidential-andres-manu...
Jun 14, 2018 - In the wake of Mexico's upcoming election day, 113 Mexican politicians — including 45candidates running for office — have been killed.

Study: 132 candidates or politicians killed since the start of Mexico's ...
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico...deaths-election-season.../index.html
Jul 2, 2018 - Even for a country numbed by escalating violence, the toll the campaign season has exacted is horrifying.
​

The drug cartels have nearly turned Mexico into a failed state with their violence. As shown above, are already corrupting national politics with their murdering, and have become Mexico's domestic terrorists.

Without strong border enforcement, and, yes, a border wall, that same crap is going to spill across the border into the US, if it hasn't already, and doing the same in US border towns, murdering US citizens.

Thanks, but I think this crap, and the people who drag it across the border with them, should not be permitted to enter the US, thereby protecting US citizenry, which is the obligation and responsibility of any government, to protect its citizens. It is not the responsibility of government to provide safe heaven for people who commit crimes, including illegal crossing of a national border.

Do please note that this is not the situation for refugees nor legal immigrants, who are welcome, provided the prescribed laws and procedures have been observed and properly followed.
 
HumblePi said:
You assume and wrongly so, that ALL people share YOUR views on religion. The men that brought forth this country knew that there would be people that would seek to interject their religious beliefs and impose them on the will of all people. That's why these wise forefathers wrote a constitution that explicitly prohibited men from ruling this country on the basis of their own religious beliefs.

Thomas Jefferson wrote "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

So be a good citizen and keep YOUR religion and YOUR God out of OUR politics.

It's extremely hypocritical when people like you can express moral outrage that women have been given the right to choose what they do with their own body guaranteed by the Constitution and yet have no problem whatsoever with a man that is a serial womanizer, cheater, liar, kidnapper of children and hate inciter. Heresy isn't just a meaningless word. You pick and choose where your religious beliefs begin and end as if they are arbitrary.
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The Constitution does not say, "Congress shall make no law abridging the right of sexual promiscuous women to murder their babies for convenience." Nor does it say, "Congress shall make every law necessary to protect the right of atheists to control the political discussion while forcing Christians to keep quiet about their religion in public."
 
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