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Thread: Federal Deficit Soars

  1. #381
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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Why? The one of the primary purposes of the federal government is to provide a common defense.
    I said some spending, not all. I thought as much though.
    keeping them all honest

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    The data you provided is speculation of assignment of data using speculated data. It is random numbers. It is nothing more than manufactured data.
    I don't know what that means or why you're inserting yourself into the middle of conversations only to present unintelligible drivel.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    we are really not talking about the rich or poor. we are talking about the huge middle. what happened in the 1980's that caused the top 5% and above to expand their wealth while leaving the other 95% to just a 0.45 growth rate?

    86_marginalgrowth.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

    main-qimg-8d4151784e161cf98510a3d04bbff29e.jpg

    inequality-pimer-infocus_infocus.jpg

    2016-budget-chart-spending-revenue-percent-of-gdp.jpg

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's gibberish from where I sit. What language are you speaking - something from the sovereign citizen movement? It's unintelligible to the rest of us.
    Do you know what 'assignment of data' is? Let's start there, since you don't seem to understand how you are making up numbers.

    The argument from randU fallacy is the fallacy of making up numbers and using them in your argument as if they actually meant something. A random number of type randU is the type that is thought up out of one's own head, usually to embellish a statement to make it sound more important. It is the only type of random number not directly associated with randR, although an association is there. The term comes from random number mathematics.

    An assignment of data is attributing a data point to a source, when multiple sources are being used (such as in the graph you quoted). The assignment of data is by metadata, which is actually just data. Like any data, making it up is a fallacy.

    The graph you are showing is making up assignments of data. That is an argument from randU. You are using made up data to assign other data. You are doing so by using made up data to be assigned as well.

    If you are going to get into math arguments, you are going to have to understand the math, particularly statistical mathematics, it's dependency on random number mathematics, multiple Domains of mathematics, and the effects of importing across Domains; or it will just sound like gibberish to you.

    Most government offices push out bad math and bad statistics all the time. It's what they do. They are bureaucrats. They do not understand the reason it is bad math.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by thenotorious View Post
    Most of your regurgitated nonsense is being ignored for obvious reasons. I've already proved you to be wrong. However the new point you brought up, capitalism brought "civilization" out of the jungle is factually untrue as well. Most advancements of civilization have occurred outside of capitalism. It was the industrial revolution founded by scholars and socialist policies that brought people out from the wood work they'd been in for 150 years in America and other countries. Capitalism only served as a means of better redistributing wealth and opportunity, to which it has become outdated.
    You obviously are not ignoring me. You responded.

    If you can't define what a billionaire is, that is your problem. As with the rest, you are simply making an argument of the stone, a fallacy.
    The industrial revolution was not brought about by socialist policies or scholars. You really ARE trying to rewrite history here, aren't you?

    Capitalism is never outdated. Socialism is never outdated. Capitalism creates wealth. Socialism steals it.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    My comment was clear enough - you attacked a straw man.



    The discussion was about "fairness." IMO, you have to look at the economic system as a whole, and not just one small part of the tax burden in this country, which is the individual income tax. And if you look at the system, it works fantastic for the wealthy, and very poorly for the bottom half or more. That's all reflected in any kind of data you want to examine - the bottom half has gone decades really with almost no real increases in wages.

    So when you argue the tax system is 'unfair' to the wealthy, the only result that's possible is lowering taxes on the segment of the society already capturing nearly all the wealth and income gains in decades, and RAISING taxes, making poorer, those who have benefitted the least from our economy during that time.

    How is that "fair?" I can't see it.

    And as to the sarcasm, I just get tired of hearing arguments whining about how the rich are so abused. Give me a break - the rich own nearly ever lever of power in this country, including nearly all our various state and local governments. Too bad they have to give the poor some crumbs off the table every now and then to keep the peace. Boo f'ing hoo. Tired of the whining.
    You are not looking at the economic system as a whole. You are fixating alternately on GDP (often using arguments from randU fallacies), and government revenue (again often using arguments from randU fallacies).

    It is obvious you are a Marxist. Socialism doesn't work. Neither of it's two forms work. Communism doesn't work. Fascism doesn't work. Both are forms of socialism. They don't work. They can only exist by stealing wealth.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Do you know what 'assignment of data' is? Let's start there, since you don't seem to understand how you are making up numbers.

    The argument from randU fallacy is the fallacy of making up numbers and using them in your argument as if they actually meant something. A random number of type randU is the type that is thought up out of one's own head, usually to embellish a statement to make it sound more important. It is the only type of random number not directly associated with randR, although an association is there. The term comes from random number mathematics.

    An assignment of data is attributing a data point to a source, when multiple sources are being used (such as in the graph you quoted). The assignment of data is by metadata, which is actually just data. Like any data, making it up is a fallacy.

    The graph you are showing is making up assignments of data. That is an argument from randU. You are using made up data to assign other data. You are doing so by using made up data to be assigned as well.

    If you are going to get into math arguments, you are going to have to understand the math, particularly statistical mathematics, it's dependency on random number mathematics, multiple Domains of mathematics, and the effects of importing across Domains; or it will just sound like gibberish to you.

    Most government offices push out bad math and bad statistics all the time. It's what they do. They are bureaucrats. They do not understand the reason it is bad math.
    I'm not making up data - I'm citing my sources.

    And if you believe all government data is bad data, then there is no way to legitimately evaluate any claim about the budget, spending, taxes, etc. because there is no source for that data other than government. If that's your position, fine, then ignore all discussions of those subjects and we'll all be better off. You're not presenting an argument except, paraphrased, "you're wrong! bad data!!" It's boring as hell, and tedious to read through for the rest of us having a discussion. I don't care about your opinion if your position depends entirely on dismissing any data any of can produce on these topics.

  8. #388
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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Two points..

    One it is fair that the wealthy pay more.. because we use more and depend more on government.. from everything from protection of shipping lanes.. to having a justice system to enforce contracts...[/quote]LOL, I've heard that nonsense for years. It's like the less wealthy don't have contracts, or purchase merchandise that travels on those sea lanes. But I;m pretty sure higher earners aren't using food stamps or ACA subsidies.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19
    Yep.. that's called social mobility and unfortunately social mobility has been decreasing. Which means that the chances for those kids to become millionaires is less today than it was before.

    .

    https://www.businessinsider.com/soci...n-dream-2017-7
    And yet it's still happening. And the better the economy does the more it will happen. We've had eight years of anti-business, anti-success leadership in the White House, that's changed. Now if we can just get our education system to teach competitiveness and ambition instead of safe spaces and microaggressions we'd create the people ready to charge up the ladder.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Why can't the US just print more dollars, if more revenue is needed? What is the limit?

    under Obama, Republicans complained about the increasing US Debt. What has changed under Trump?

    The US Dollar in relation to exchange rates seems to not affected by increase debt/ Will there be a cliff?




    //
    Comparing the US dollar to other currencies is a misnomer. ALL currencies in any major economic bloc are just paper (or bits in a computer somewhere). NONE of them are tied to a commodity value such as gold, silver, diamonds, or anything.

    It's an international race to the bottom. The world has never been here before.

    China is already divesting themselves from the dollar, pushing the Yuan as the trade currency of choice in the region (and in parts of Europe). It's so far working.
    The USSR is likewise trading in currencies other than the dollar.
    Iran went back to a gold standard. They are not, however, a major economic power.

    The limit for printing dollars is unknown. People are already losing faith in the dollar. If enough lose faith (a surprisingly small amount is sufficient) in the paper currencies that are rapidly losing value, the world will turn to something more substantial. For the dollar, that means all those dollars we've been spending around the world will come back home like ravens, bringing destruction with them.

    Will the world turn instead to SDR's? The World Bank currently has the cleanest balance sheet. Will it return to a gold and silver standard?

    Printing dollars is already causing inflation. Haven't you noticed?

    Yes, there is a cliff. We just don't know where it is. The perception of a money's value is just that...a perception. It doesn't matter if it's paper, bits, gold, silver, diamonds, or any other unit of account.

    A lot of this comes down to answering the question, "What is money?".

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    Re: Federal Deficit Soars

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Great.. please give me a list of federal benefit programs that have been cut during republican Congresses.

    Start with the expansion of Medicare to cover drug benefits for seniors.

    Lets see it.
    Can't think of a single one, other than ObamaCare.

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