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Harley-Davidson cut jobs, repurchased shares after tax cut

JohnfrmClevelan said:
Businesses don't operate like that. They won't "stay afloat" in America when they can be more profitable in Thailand; that would just be charity for the workers. All this tax cut does is make a profitable business more profitable, and that doesn't trickle down to labor; it all stays at the top.

That's why skeptics saw this tax cut for the bull$#!t legislation that it was, a giveaway to the rich. You don't give the rich a pile of money in the hopes that they will give some of their windfall back to labor - that's just stupid (or smart, if your intention all along was to give more money to the rich). If you want to help labor, you legislate to help them directly - lower their taxes, create incentives to keep American plants open, etc.
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Your focusing on what people are selling, the sells pitch instead actually look at what it does from an economic stand point. Yes it keeps the business more profitable which is needed for the company to stay in business. When the business becomes unprofitable or not profitable enough for investors the company dissolves. When companies dissolves the people that they employ lose their jobs. That's whats being protected as well when the company, its corporate executives, its investors that profit more sure but the workers benefit as well by staying employed or by their wages getting a cola adjustment. Do we want these companies to go out of business? Is that whats in the best interest of the people? I think not.
 
gulfman said:
Can liberals even afford a Harley?That's a rich conservative mans bike.
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Methinks you meant Drug Dealers Bike...just sayin steve
 
MTAtech said:
It started about a year ago, when Trump said, "A lot of countries are taking advantage of us," during a press briefing with the executives and union members."Thank you Harley-Davidson for building things in America," Trump said during his remarks.


This is now, I think the worker at Harley are getting tired of winning.
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Harley was in trouble long before Trump can on the scene.

Closing core production sites due to a shrinking consumer base.
 
Fledermaus said:
Harley was in trouble long before Trump can on the scene.

Closing core production sites due to a shrinking consumer base.
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But after Trump was elected, he used them as a prop, fluffing them up with this:

"We want to make it easier for business to create more jobs and more factories to be made in the US and you're a great example of that. And that means we have to make America the best country in the world to do business and that's what we're currently doing."

White House Media Pool Reports

Why did he pick a company which was circling the drain so badly that they couldn't be helped by his wonderful policies?
 
Amelia said:
But after Trump was elected, he used them as a prop, fluffing them up with this:

"We want to make it easier for business to create more jobs and more factories to be made in the US and you're a great example of that. And that means we have to make America the best country in the world to do business and that's what we're currently doing."

White House Media Pool Reports

Why did he pick a company which was circling the drain so bad that they couldn't be helped by his wonderful policies?
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I don't effing care what Trump did or did not do. Harley was in trouble long before what Trump did.
 
Fledermaus said:
I don't effing care what Trump did or did not do. Harley was in trouble long before what Trump did.
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Okay.

Then you might be in the wrong thread. This thread is about how Trump turned Harley Davidson into a symbol of what he was promising, and how Harley has now became a symbol of how Trump has enriched the already rich and has not come through for the working class.
 
MTAtech said:
It started about a year ago, when Trump said, "A lot of countries are taking advantage of us," during a press briefing with the executives and union members."Thank you Harley-Davidson for building things in America," Trump said during his remarks.


This is now, I think the worker at Harley are getting tired of winning.
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MAGA!

Not so much
 
calamity said:
MAGA!

Not so much
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You are no different than the climate change skeptics who point to a month that gets cooler and say that global warming isn't occurring.
 
FreeWits said:
You are no different than the climate change skeptics who point to a month that gets cooler and say that global warming isn't occurring.
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Stocks are down, gas prices are up, uncertainty in the US is through the roof. Trump is a disaster. Too bad you think different.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Maybe stock buybacks should be taxed.
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Damn, is there anything you liberals think shouldn’t be taxed? I mean now Seattle is even taxing jobs!

Maybe we should tax welfare benefits and not people and companies who actually contribute to society
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
So your solution is to allow them to break the law? Great idea. Maybe if they were allowed to dump their waste into the nearest stream, they could save a few bucks that way, too. Surely, they would then pass on the savings to their employees, right?
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The solution is the reduce regulations used to enforce the law to much more reasonable levels
 
calamity said:
Stocks are down, gas prices are up, uncertainty in the US is through the roof. Trump is a disaster. Too bad you think different.
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This is objectively wrong. Stocks are up, economic confidence indexes are way up, and I'll give you the gas price comment, which seems to have a lot to do with Iran sanctions, not a bad economy.

UPDATE: If you look at the US Economic Confidence Index by Gallup and click "all", you can see that the confidence shot up after the election in 2016 and has remained high: U.S. Economic Confidence Index (Weekly)

Here you can see the US Consumer Confidence Index by the OECD, and the CCI has been high under Trump and has continued to rise: https://data.oecd.org/leadind/consumer-confidence-index-cci.htm

Here you can click the 3-year and see that the NYSE Composite Index has grown well under Trump: NYSE Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the NASDAQ Composite Index: Nasdaq Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the S&P 500 Index: S&P 500 Index - CNNMoney.com

And the Dow Jones Industrial Average: http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

Your misinformation doesn't help your case.
 
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FreeWits said:
This is objectively wrong. Stocks are up, economic confidence indexes are way up, and I'll give you the gas price comment, which seems to have a lot to do with Iran sanctions, not a bad economy.

UPDATE: If you look at the US Economic Confidence Index by Gallup and click "all", you can see that the confidence shot up after the election in 2016 and has remained high: U.S. Economic Confidence Index (Weekly)

Here you can see the US Consumer Confidence Index by the OECD, and the CCI has been high under Trump and has continued to rise: https://data.oecd.org/leadind/consumer-confidence-index-cci.htm

Here you can click the 3-year and see that the NYSE Composite Index has grown well under Trump: NYSE Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the NASDAQ Composite Index: Nasdaq Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the S&P 500 Index: S&P 500 Index - CNNMoney.com

And the Dow Jones Industrial Average: http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

Your misinformation doesn't help your case.
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Not only that, liberals like him WANT high gas prices and high prices to car ownership in general
 
MTAtech said:
It started about a year ago, when Trump said, "A lot of countries are taking advantage of us," during a press briefing with the executives and union members."Thank you Harley-Davidson for building things in America," Trump said during his remarks.


This is now, I think the worker at Harley are getting tired of winning.
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I dumped my Harley stock a very long time ago.
They had been going downhill for a long time before this.
I think those huge stores killed them.
 
trixare4kids said:
You're missing one important detail mentioned in one of your articles above. HD's sales are really down.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/03/harley-davidson-sales-go-from-bad-to-worse.aspx

eta:
As much as you are trying to make this Trump's fault because of your own partisanship, it isn't his fault.
Find a more convincing anti-Trump argument.
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Spot on, Trix.
Several people saw the writing on the wall long ago.
Like ten years ago.
It had nothing to do with who was President.
yet both left and right try and say so.
I prefer to look at public P&L statements, plus some other indicators I use.

Harley riders are a dedicated bunch, but it seems the only ones riding them are older professional people.
It takes a lot of experience to control a hog.
Winona Ryder's hubby found out the hard way at Sturgis.
Cost him a leg.
 
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PleasantValley said:
Spot on, Trix.
Several people saw the writing on the wall long ago.
Like ten years ago.
It had nothing to do with who was President.
yet both left and right try and say so.
I prefer to look at public P&L statements, plus some other indicators I use.

Harley riders are a dedicated bunch, but it seems the only ones riding them are older professional people.
It takes a lot of experience to control a hog.
Winona Ryder's hubby found out the hard way at Sturgis.
Cost him a leg.
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Young folk generally dont ride, you know how they have been raised, to them a motorcycle is stupid dangerous... something to avoid.
 
FreeWits said:
This is objectively wrong. Stocks are up, economic confidence indexes are way up, and I'll give you the gas price comment, which seems to have a lot to do with Iran sanctions, not a bad economy.

UPDATE: If you look at the US Economic Confidence Index by Gallup and click "all", you can see that the confidence shot up after the election in 2016 and has remained high: U.S. Economic Confidence Index (Weekly)

Here you can see the US Consumer Confidence Index by the OECD, and the CCI has been high under Trump and has continued to rise: https://data.oecd.org/leadind/consumer-confidence-index-cci.htm

Here you can click the 3-year and see that the NYSE Composite Index has grown well under Trump: NYSE Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the NASDAQ Composite Index: Nasdaq Composite Index - CNNMoney.com

And the S&P 500 Index: S&P 500 Index - CNNMoney.com

And the Dow Jones Industrial Average: http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

Your misinformation doesn't help your case.
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FreeWits, Please remind me to never go against you in an economic discussion.
It would be like fighting a house fire with a squirt gun.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Young folk generally dont ride, you know how they have been raised, to them a motorcycle is stupid dangerous... something to avoid.
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Lots of young folk ride.
They prefer 'crotch rockets" and Japanese cheaper and smaller bikes.
More control, with the exception of the crotch rockets.
It was so bad when i was in the Navy, they made a blanket order saying they would no longer treat your injuries if you splattered yourself all over the highway on one.
It happened that frequently with young sailors and marines.

Those things look like they are going 80MPH sitting still.

BUT...to your point...I do not see any young people at Sturgis. Only older guys who brought young chicks with them. Everyone there for the three years i went regularly looked to be about 40 and up.
so, yeah. You are probably right.

but who would bring a Honda or Kawasaki to Sturgis anyway.
Death wish?
 
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PleasantValley said:
Lots of young folk ride.
They prefer 'crotch rockets" and Japanese cheaper and smaller bikes.
More control, with the exception of the crotch rockets.
It was so bad when i was in the Navy, they made a blanket order saying they would no longer treat your injuries if you splattered yourself all over the highway on one.
It happened that frequently with young sailors and marines.

Those things look like they are going 80MPH sitting still.

BUT...to your point...I do not see any young people at Sturgis. Only older guys who brought young chicks with them. Everyone there for the three years i went regularly looked to be about 40 and up.
so, yeah. You are probably right.
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And then there’s the generational time-bomb. In 2003, only about one-quarter of U.S. motorcycle riders were 50 or older. By 2014, it was close to half. The market has been cruising on a demographic that may only be able to buy one more bike.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-05/can-millennials-save-the-motorcycle-industry

Most people claim that the problem is that the young cant afford bikes, I say they dont want to ride them because of the danger.

Now here is the big question: When will rider rates get low enough that the do-gooders can sin tax the Drivers Licenses?

"Sir, you can have one, just going to have to pay the required $487/year for the DL"

UNNECESSARY DANGER!
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-05/can-millennials-save-the-motorcycle-industry

Most people claim that the problem is that the young cant afford bikes, I say they dont want to ride them because of the danger.

Now here is the big question: When will rider rates get low enough that the do-gooders can sin tax the Drivers Licenses?

"Sir, you can have one, just going to have to pay the required $487/year for the DL"

UNNECESSARY DANGER!
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I guess it is from which young people community you are talking about.
The young men in the military LOVE the danger and seek it out.
That is why they signed up.
 
PleasantValley said:
Lots of young folk ride.
They prefer 'crotch rockets" and Japanese cheaper and smaller bikes.
More control, with the exception of the crotch rockets.
It was so bad when i was in the Navy, they made a blanket order saying they would no longer treat your injuries if you splattered yourself all over the highway on one.
It happened that frequently with young sailors and marines.

Those things look like they are going 80MPH sitting still.

BUT...to your point...I do not see any young people at Sturgis. Only older guys who brought young chicks with them. Everyone there for the three years i went regularly looked to be about 40 and up.
so, yeah. You are probably right.

but who would bring a Honda or Kawasaki to Sturgis anyway.
Death wish?
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That is exactly the reason, even Harley Davidson themselves acknowledge that fact in their financial reports. But the number of young people riding has also simply declined as well, motorcycles are an expensive luxury most millennials would rather forgo.
 
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