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The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

ludin said:
Not really. YOu should read this forum and all the liberal talk about is more taxes we need more taxes.
but not when it comes to themselves. Only when it comes to people they don't like.

However since most of those rich liberals now get to put their money where their mouth is they are upset.
the liberal hypocrisy.
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I do read this forum.. a lot. And yes.. there are some avowed liberals that love taxes as long as its not themselves.

Just as we now have a supposed Conservative... arguing that money collected by the state.. really is the property of the federal government and the state should not be allowed to spend that money unless the federal government approves of the expenditure.

Having lived both in a blue state.. and now in a red state.. and as a conservative.. I understand the points made by the blue states.

So the liberals in NY? Sure.. they tax higher.. but.. I grew up their and had an amazing public education.. which I parlayed into my own business, and ultimately a highly profitable corporation and multiple other businesses. So those liberals.. yep the paid those taxes. personally so that I could have such a good education despite being poor/lower middle class.

When my grandparents reached that age they were unable to take care of themselves.. those same liberals and their taxes paid for their care.. good care in a nursing home.

So now I live in a red state.. and we enjoy really low taxes.. but education? Public education doesn't hold a candle to what I got. which means if my sons did not already have a rich father... they would not have the opportunities that I had as a child in NY.

My patients when they need care at the end of their years? don't get a smidgen of the care that my grandparents got.

And here is the kicker.. the red state I live in.. not only doesn't provide those services.. but actually needs money from OTHER states.. Like NY... to provide what services they do provide...

And then they act like they are entitled.

Its like watching a fellow on welfare.. who does nothing to help himself.. complain about me.. while he thinks he is entitled to my money.
 
Conservative said:
So now it is the state's money? When does it become the people's money?
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yes.. its the peoples money.. and the get taxed by the state.. and also by the federal government.

YOU sir are the one saying that their money is the federal governments money and that they should be sending more into the federal government. and their state.. cannot spend money unless the federal government approves it.

keep digging that leftwing hole of yours totally ignoring the question as to what federal taxes the blue states pay that the red states don't
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I haven't ignored anything.. I pointed out that in totality.. there is no difference in as to what federal taxes blue states pay vs red states. they are both under the same tax code.

The difference is that the red states end up ultimately being tax recipients.. in that they receive more from the federal government than they pay in.. while blue states are net tax payers.

how it is the state responsibility to fund federally mandated programs and the proof that the states actually do that or get their money from the federal govt?
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Diversion. who cares. BOTH red states and blue states had federally mandated programs. The difference is that the blue states by and large.. pay for themselves and those programs AND send money to the federal government..

While red states don't meet their financial obligations and have to receive money.. taxpayer money from blue states.

Blue states offer services to the citizens of their state which are paid for by state and local taxes that were deductions on federal tax filings
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Yep.. JUST AS RED STATES DO.

Both red states and blue states get that deduction by the way. BUT red states don't pay enough in federal taxes to really matter that much.. so they get subsidized by the blue states.. in other words.. blue state taxpayers money gets taken by the federal government and given to mostly red states.

That's what it means.

Your argument is that state and federal taxes aren't a deduction on the federal returns thus aren't a subsidy
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That's a flat out lie. My argument is that state and some federal taxes are a deduction on federal returns REGARDLESS of whether you are a blue state or a red state. Currently there is no special advantage given. Basically the deduction allows me to keep more of my money, just as it does with someone in a blue state.. ..Keeping more of my money, when everyone has the opportunity to use that tax deduction.. is not a subsidy.

You seem to think that all money earned is the property of the federal government.. and if you get a deduction.. and keeping more of it.. then you are getting a subsidy.

I feel sorry for the people in your state.. if they think like you.. that getting a tax deduction that everyone else gets.. means that they are getting a subsidy.
 
Jack Hays said:
Being less wealthy, the red states did not reap the same amount of benefit from the deduction, and while their citizens also pay federal taxes, it is true the red states are net receivers of federal funds. The deduction allowed wealthy blue state citizens to receive a de facto subsidy for their expensive state and local governments.
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Right.. just as you not having a house as expensive as mine.. means you do not reap the same benefit of that mortgage deduction on your taxes. Now according to you.. I am getting a subsidy,, and now need to help pay your mortgage as well as my own.

THAT is what you are arguing.. and its absurd.
 
jaeger19 said:
Right.. just as you not having a house as expensive as mine.. means you do not reap the same benefit of that mortgage deduction on your taxes. Now according to you.. I am getting a subsidy,, and now need to help pay your mortgage as well as my own.

THAT is what you are arguing.. and its absurd.
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No. Blue state federal tax dollars do not go to red states to pay red state obligations. They go to pay federal obligations that occur in both blue and red states. Your mortgage and mine are private matters.
 
jaeger19;1068550210]yes.. its the peoples money.. and the get taxed by the state.. and also by the federal government.
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Yep, and state taxes fund state programs and you want those state programs now deducted from the federal tax liabilities, got it, how liberal of you

YOU sir are the one saying that their money is the federal governments money and that they should be sending more into the federal government. and their state.. cannot spend money unless the federal government approves it.
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Your reading comprehension seems to be a problem for you just like your inability to admit you are wrong. The point always has been your state shouldn't be paying for federal mandates per the Contract with America and the Federal Taxpayers shouldn't be funding your state initiatives.



I haven't ignored anything.. I pointed out that in totality.. there is no difference in as to what federal taxes blue states pay vs red states. they are both under the same tax code.
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No, you didn't and you haven't answered what Federal taxes are paid by Blue states and aren't paid for by Red States? Same tax code, again learn your taxes and their purpose.

The difference is that the red states end up ultimately being tax recipients.. in that they receive more from the federal government than they pay in.. while blue states are net tax payers.
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That is your opinion not proven by the link I keep posting and you keep ignoring. Federal tax dollars sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the states. Sorry that is so confusing for you




While red states don't meet their financial obligations and have to receive money.. taxpayer money from blue states.
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Again what financial obligations are the states not meeting to get federal funds? SPECIFICS?
 
Jack Hays said:
No. Blue state federal tax dollars do not go to red states to pay red state obligations. They go to pay federal obligations that occur in both blue and red states. Your mortgage and mine are private matters.
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Absolutely stunning bullheadedness and denial of reality from a so called Conservative who doesn't know nor care what those federal dollars fund
 
Jack Hays said:
I'm coming at this from the left so there may be some disorientation.
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Actually you are oriented quite well and understand that no longer are state authorized expenses going to be deducted from federal liabilities which they never should have been in the first place
 
Conservative said:
Actually you are oriented quite well and understand that no longer are state authorized expenses going to be deducted from federal liabilities which they never should have been in the first place
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In other words.. you want people to pay more to the federal government rather than let people support their state financially.

More to the federal government.. less to the states.

Change your lean.
 
jaeger19 said:
In other words.. you want people to pay more to the federal government rather than let people support their state financially.

More to the federal government.. less to the states.

Change your lean.
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The federal government is not taking in enough revenue to meet its obligations. We can't have wealthy citizens ducking their duty. The last time states tried to turn their backs on the federal government it did not end well for those states.

 
Conservative said:
Yep, and state taxes fund state programs and you want those state programs now deducted from the federal tax liabilities, got it, how liberal of you

?
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Wrong.. those state programs are NOT deducted from federal tax liabilities. The taxes that people pay to the state are. Which makes sense.. since they are paying for their own state. Letting people and their state keep more of the money they earned.

YOU want the federal government to take more of the peoples money rather than have the people and the state keep more of their own money. THATS how liberal of YOU.

The point always has been your state shouldn't be paying for federal mandates per the Contract with America and the Federal Taxpayers shouldn't be funding your state initiatives.
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Yes I did. Its the same tax code. but okay.. how about we stop this right now. You go ahead and tell us all how the federal tax code is different whether you live in a red state or a blue state. Please explain to us all how its different.

I say there is no difference.. and you keep claiming that there is.. so you go ahead and explain how now that I live in a red state.. the federal tax code applies to me differently than when I lived in a blue state. Go ahead.

Oh wait.. you CAN"T.. because its still the same code.

That is your opinion not proven by the link I keep posting and you keep ignoring. Federal tax dollars sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the states.

Your lack of understanding seems to know no bounds. Fine.. you don't think states should have to pay for federal mandates..

GREAT.. but this DOES NOT REDUCE WHAT THE STATE IS PAYING FOR FEDERAL MANDATES.

Right now.. blue states are paying for themselves including all those federal mandates. AND having to send money to the federal government to help red states meet their obligations.

What you like.. is that now.. blue states will STILL HAVE FEDERAL MANDATES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR... but in addition.. they will have to GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

So basically you support taking the money away from the wealthier blue states.. and sending it to the federal government.!!! How can you claim you are a conservative?!?!!?

No, you didn't and you haven't answered what Federal taxes are paid by Blue states and aren't paid for by Red States? Same tax code, again learn your taxes and their purpose.
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As I said.. its the same tax code.. but you go ahead and explain to us all how the federal tax code differs whether you live in a blue state vs a red state.

That is your opinion not proven by the link I keep posting and you keep ignoring. Federal tax dollars sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the states
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Yeah its a fact. Okay. "federal taxes sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the state"..

Sure.. yep.. WELL GUESS? BOTH BLUE STATES AND RED STATES ARE UNDER THOSE FEDERAL MANDATES..

However.. the big difference is that in the end.. BLUE STATES SEND MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAN THEY GET BACK!!!!.

Again what financial obligations are the states not meeting to get federal funds? SPECIFICS
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Any number of them.

Tell me.. why are these red states not net tax payers? Why do they receive MORE from the federal government than they pay?

At the end of the day.. that's the facts. So however you twist it.. it doesn't matter.. at the end of the day.. either the red states.. that receive more in funds than they pay into the federal government.. are not meeting their obligations within state.. OR they are not meeting their obligations when it comes to things like paying for defense, etc.

The red states that receive more in federal dollars than they send in... are being subsidized by the states that send in more to the federal government than they get.
 
jaeger19 said:
Wrong.. those state programs are NOT deducted from federal tax liabilities. The taxes that people pay to the state are. Which makes sense.. since they are paying for their own state. Letting people and their state keep more of the money they earned.

YOU want the federal government to take more of the peoples money rather than have the people and the state keep more of their own money. THATS how liberal of YOU.



Yes I did. Its the same tax code. but okay.. how about we stop this right now. You go ahead and tell us all how the federal tax code is different whether you live in a red state or a blue state. Please explain to us all how its different.

I say there is no difference.. and you keep claiming that there is.. so you go ahead and explain how now that I live in a red state.. the federal tax code applies to me differently than when I lived in a blue state. Go ahead.

Oh wait.. you CAN"T.. because its still the same code.

That is your opinion not proven by the link I keep posting and you keep ignoring. Federal tax dollars sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the states.

Your lack of understanding seems to know no bounds. Fine.. you don't think states should have to pay for federal mandates..

GREAT.. but this DOES NOT REDUCE WHAT THE STATE IS PAYING FOR FEDERAL MANDATES.

Right now.. blue states are paying for themselves including all those federal mandates. AND having to send money to the federal government to help red states meet their obligations.

What you like.. is that now.. blue states will STILL HAVE FEDERAL MANDATES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR... but in addition.. they will have to GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

So basically you support taking the money away from the wealthier blue states.. and sending it to the federal government.!!! How can you claim you are a conservative?!?!!?



As I said.. its the same tax code.. but you go ahead and explain to us all how the federal tax code differs whether you live in a blue state vs a red state.



Yeah its a fact. Okay. "federal taxes sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the state"..

Sure.. yep.. WELL GUESS? BOTH BLUE STATES AND RED STATES ARE UNDER THOSE FEDERAL MANDATES..

However.. the big difference is that in the end.. BLUE STATES SEND MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAN THEY GET BACK!!!!.



Any number of them.

Tell me.. why are these red states not net tax payers? Why do they receive MORE from the federal government than they pay?

At the end of the day.. that's the facts. So however you twist it.. it doesn't matter.. at the end of the day.. either the red states.. that receive more in funds than they pay into the federal government.. are not meeting their obligations within state.. OR they are not meeting their obligations when it comes to things like paying for defense, etc.

The red states that receive more in federal dollars than they send in... are being subsidized by the states that send in more to the federal government than they get.
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False in a simple way. The additional federal funds received by red states are not to compensate for red state funding shortfalls, but to pay higher federal obligations in red states. If the federal funds disappeared, the payments would simply not be made.
 
Jack Hays said:
The federal government is not taking in enough revenue to meet its obligations. We can't have wealthy citizens ducking their duty. The last time states tried to turn their backs on the federal government it did not end well for those states.

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Well lets start there.. the federal government is not taking enough in to meet its obligations because some states are net recipients of the federal government not net tax payers.

Turn their back on the federal government?... the blue states are the ones that for the most part are FINANCING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!.

You know what you sound like? You sound like a welfare recipient I know that thinks I need to work harder.. so he doesn't have to. Meanwhile he reaps the benefits of MY hard work!!.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well lets start there.. the federal government is not taking enough in to meet its obligations because some states are net recipients of the federal government not net tax payers.

Turn their back on the federal government?... the blue states are the ones that for the most part are FINANCING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!.

You know what you sound like? You sound like a welfare recipient I know that thinks I need to work harder.. so he doesn't have to. Meanwhile he reaps the benefits of MY hard work!!.
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And you sound like a shirker without much sense of duty.
Citizens pay taxes, not states. And we, as citizens, are not paying enough to pay for the government we say we want. A good place to start addressing that is to take away the subsidy by which wealthy blue-staters are able to dodge their fair share of federal taxes.
 
jaeger19 said:
In other words.. you want people to pay more to the federal government rather than let people support their state financially.

More to the federal government.. less to the states.

Change your lean.
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You seem to again be playing stupid ass games, it has nothing to do with funding the federal govt. it has everything to do with the federal taxpayers funding your state operations. Now stop acting stupid because I know you aren't
 
jaeger19 said:
Wrong.. those state programs are NOT deducted from federal tax liabilities. The taxes that people pay to the state are. Which makes sense.. since they are paying for their own state. Letting people and their state keep more of the money they earned.

YOU want the federal government to take more of the peoples money rather than have the people and the state keep more of their own money. THATS how liberal of YOU.



Yes I did. Its the same tax code. but okay.. how about we stop this right now. You go ahead and tell us all how the federal tax code is different whether you live in a red state or a blue state. Please explain to us all how its different.

I say there is no difference.. and you keep claiming that there is.. so you go ahead and explain how now that I live in a red state.. the federal tax code applies to me differently than when I lived in a blue state. Go ahead.

Oh wait.. you CAN"T.. because its still the same code.

That is your opinion not proven by the link I keep posting and you keep ignoring. Federal tax dollars sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the states.

Your lack of understanding seems to know no bounds. Fine.. you don't think states should have to pay for federal mandates..

GREAT.. but this DOES NOT REDUCE WHAT THE STATE IS PAYING FOR FEDERAL MANDATES.

Right now.. blue states are paying for themselves including all those federal mandates. AND having to send money to the federal government to help red states meet their obligations.

What you like.. is that now.. blue states will STILL HAVE FEDERAL MANDATES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR... but in addition.. they will have to GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

So basically you support taking the money away from the wealthier blue states.. and sending it to the federal government.!!! How can you claim you are a conservative?!?!!?



As I said.. its the same tax code.. but you go ahead and explain to us all how the federal tax code differs whether you live in a blue state vs a red state.



Yeah its a fact. Okay. "federal taxes sent to the states fund federal mandates and expenses in the state"..

Sure.. yep.. WELL GUESS? BOTH BLUE STATES AND RED STATES ARE UNDER THOSE FEDERAL MANDATES..

However.. the big difference is that in the end.. BLUE STATES SEND MORE MONEY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAN THEY GET BACK!!!!.



Any number of them.

Tell me.. why are these red states not net tax payers? Why do they receive MORE from the federal government than they pay?

At the end of the day.. that's the facts. So however you twist it.. it doesn't matter.. at the end of the day.. either the red states.. that receive more in funds than they pay into the federal government.. are not meeting their obligations within state.. OR they are not meeting their obligations when it comes to things like paying for defense, etc.

The red states that receive more in federal dollars than they send in... are being subsidized by the states that send in more to the federal government than they get.
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Stop with the bull****, the federal govt. has no business paying for your state and local expenses which is what deductions support.
 
Jack Hays said:
False in a simple way. The additional federal funds received by red states are not to compensate for red state funding shortfalls, but to pay higher federal obligations in red states. If the federal funds disappeared, the payments would simply not be made.
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Sorry but true..they do compensate for red state shortfalls. I live in a red state.. when the economic downturn happened.. it was the federal funding that kept the fire departments, cops and schools going, not to mention elderly care.

In any case.. BOTH blue states and red states have those federal mandates.
 
Conservative said:
Stop with the bull****, the federal govt. has no business paying for your state and local expenses which is what deductions support.
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Bingo.. way to go liberal.

You JUST ARGUED.. that the individuals and the state has no business keeping their own money.. that when I or the state pays for something.. I am not spending my own money.. but spending the federal governments money!!!!!

You are more liberal than the other liberals on this board.
 
jaeger19 said:
Sorry but true..they do compensate for red state shortfalls. I live in a red state.. when the economic downturn happened.. it was the federal funding that kept the fire departments, cops and schools going, not to mention elderly care.

In any case.. BOTH blue states and red states have those federal mandates.
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I live in a red state as well, and I challenge the accuracy of your claim. Those federal payments were for federal programs, not basic state/local services.
 
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