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Thread: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

  1. #31
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    “charitable donation.” Sounds voluntary, I wonder if those states will charge those who do not volunteer with a crime?
    That was my observation too. Since when does the state at any level dictate what you must contribute as a charitable donation?
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It is progressive and enlightened for the better-off to pay more to help the less-well-off. As pointed out in the OP article, blue states possess a disproportionate share of wealth. That's why wealthy blue states pay more. What has ended is a subsidy from the less-well-off to benefit the better-off.
    Blue states EARN a disproportionate share of the wealth because they have, largely through higher taxes, invested more in themselves. Education is a good example.

    This tax change aims to lower that investment (or simply punish people for paying higher taxes), bringing successful blue states more in line (investment-wise) with piss-poor red states. That's not going to help anybody, long run or short run.

    It is analogous to a school scaling back the curriculum so the dumb kids won't fall so far behind the smart kids - but they aren't making the dumb kids any smarter by doing so. They are just hindering the smart kids.
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    You don't appear to know what a subsidy is. The previous law said that so long as blue states are willing to tax themselves and pay for their own education and infrastructure there is no reason for the Federal government to tax them again. The law is designed to prevent low tax states red states from stealing business from higher tax blue states by sabotaging their own education systems. Now you're forcing liberal blue states who previously had very good and very well funded education systems to choose between creating jobs and education. Instead of making conservative states raise their taxes to improve their educational systems you're trying to bring sabotage the good educational systems of blue states. Yet another disgusting race to the bottom. Conservatives just can't win elections unless they can keep the population ignorant can they?
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I'd LOVE to see the numbers and plan you think would make this 'better' healthcare possible... but you ducked the question- do you favor universal health care run and financed by the federal government? You want the feds and not the states to develop and administer so wide reaching a program???

    So you didn't support the new tax laws passed in congress lowering the tax rates? Lowering corporate taxes??? After all the better off should help the less well off...

    But the red states aren't less well off, they have deliberately ruined their economies, their tax base in some warped rabid right failed economic folly and fully expect the feds to prop them up so of course they want a new revenue stream to keep the party going.

    No you only favor a very targeted elimination of a tax deduction- one that hits the rabid right's enemies- it is the world stood on end to see a conservative demand MORE taxes for the wealthy... and cheap political partisanship...

    Would you be in favor of ending the red state subsidy where MORE federal money pours into a state than they pay in??? Seems highly biased and who knows, we could reach universal health care coverage if the red states grew up and created a budget that paid it's bills to include getting our education system out of the basement...
    Actually, I opposed the recent tax cut. Started a thread here at DP on that basis. I think there was a case to be made for cleaning up corporate tax loopholes and lowering rates, but I'd have coupled that with an increase on individual income tax rates for the highest earners.

    If we're going to aim at universal health care then it should be federal.
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by <alt>doxygen View Post
    Jack, we don't have state taxes here, but I know from personal experience that VA does. I also know that states with no income taxes use other taxes (property is the big one here) to fill in the hole. If they don't they will fall apart and people will leave.
    Nothing to disagree with. I'm not sure I get your point.
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    Blue states EARN a disproportionate share of the wealth because they have, largely through higher taxes, invested more in themselves. Education is a good example.

    This tax change aims to lower that investment (or simply punish people for paying higher taxes), bringing successful blue states more in line (investment-wise) with piss-poor red states. That's not going to help anybody, long run or short run.

    It is analogous to a school scaling back the curriculum so the dumb kids won't fall so far behind the smart kids - but they aren't making the dumb kids any smarter by doing so. They are just hindering the smart kids.
    "Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle."
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    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Actually, I opposed the recent tax cut. Started a thread here at DP on that basis. I think there was a case to be made for cleaning up corporate tax loopholes and lowering rates, but I'd have coupled that with an increase on individual income tax rates for the highest earners. If we're going to aim at universal health care then it should be federal.
    All nice rhetoric but you have yet to give numbers to reducing the federal tax deduction (remember it ends nothing, just lowers the cap) so what kind of money will this generate? What program do you see for healthcare?

    You don't think the well off in a state should be focused on their less well off rather than bail out poorly run red states? Why should a state that is doing better be forced to prop up states that deliberately trash their tax system? Why do you reward deliberate sabotage and bailouts???

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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    And yet they have benefited (until now) from a subsidy paid for by the less fortunate.
    Explain how it is paid by the less fortunate, when the less fortunates already were getting back far more in federal spending then they were paying in federal taxes.

    You put in a $1.00 and you get $1.50 back. I put in a $1.00 and get 60 cents back.

    New tax scenario: You put in a 80 cents get a $1.50 back. I put in a $1.25 and still get just 60 cents back. I say that is unfair, and you say "until now you have benefited from a subsidy paid for by me - the less fortunate". I scratch my head in disbelief wondering how in the hell someone that always gets back far more than they pay in could say that about someone that always gets back far less than they pay in.
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    [FONT="]"Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle."[/FONT]
    —Representative Barber Conable
    I think we all have a vested interest in not becoming The United States of Mississippi.
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    Re: The End of the Federal Tax Subsidy for Blue States

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It is progressive and enlightened for the better-off to pay more to help the less-well-off. As pointed out in the OP article, blue states possess a disproportionate share of wealth. That's why wealthy blue states pay more. What has ended is a subsidy from the less-well-off to benefit the better-off.
    The point being that the people who are 8itching are from the red states who get subsidized by the blue states. A third of West Virginia receives Medicaid but I am sure they complain about federal taxes, when their state gets more from the feds than they pay in taxes.

    Blue states aren't subsidizing red states from the state tax deduction -- red states are already receiving more than they pay.

    One thing NY and CA have is crafty lawyers and accountants that will figure out how to get the deduction stick.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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