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Tax Revenues Jump 13% To Record High In April

Moderate Right said:
When Will Dems Admit They Were Wrong About Trump's Tax Cuts?





https://www.investors.com/politics/...nues-record-high-april-paying-for-themselves/
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Receipts may have gotten a bump due to an increase in capital gains. Else April receipts have little or nothing to do with the tax cuts. I say this although I favored the corporate rate reduction, not the personal reductions.

My sense is it will take YEARS to know if we get the desired impact of the cuts. If they help bring back factory jobs as I think they will then this will be a success. Taxes are just one piece of the puzzle though. If/when dems take back control of congress and stop progress to make America more friendly for corporations the true middle class will be back in the same spot.
 
washunut said:
Receipts may have gotten a bump due to an increase in capital gains. Else April receipts have little or nothing to do with the tax cuts. I say this although I favored the corporate rate reduction, not the personal reductions.

My sense is it will take YEARS to know if we get the desired impact of the cuts. If they help bring back factory jobs as I think they will then this will be a success. Taxes are just one piece of the puzzle though. If/when dems take back control of congress and stop progress to make America more friendly for corporations the true middle class will be back in the same spot.
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Didn't read the article, did you?
 
Moderate Right said:
Didn't read the article, did you?
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It is an editorial. Why do you need other people to tell you what you are supposed to think?

For the record, 1 month is too short a time from to draw any real conclusions from.
 
Redress said:
It is an editorial. Why do you need other people to tell you what you are supposed to think?

For the record, 1 month is too short a time from to draw any real conclusions from.
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As lefties would say, facts are facts. Even though it is an editorial, it lists facts and it also blames both parties for out of control spending so it is not a purely partisan editorial. However, I will give you that just one month isn't much to base anything on. But, right now it clearly shows that the tax cut isn't "not working".
 
washunut said:
Receipts may have gotten a bump due to an increase in capital gains. Else April receipts have little or nothing to do with the tax cuts. I say this although I favored the corporate rate reduction, not the personal reductions.

My sense is it will take YEARS to know if we get the desired impact of the cuts. If they help bring back factory jobs as I think they will then this will be a success. Taxes are just one piece of the puzzle though. If/when dems take back control of congress and stop progress to make America more friendly for corporations the true middle class will be back in the same spot.
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The bump was in income revenue, not capital gains - Individual income taxes were up 11.5% or about $108 billion.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
People are paying taxes from LAST YEAR, the new taxes took place this year. /ENd thread



We all know you didn't read it, you only read titles, and only respond with one liners
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Apparently you don't understand how things work. Businesses pay taxes monthly to the government and that is where they got this information from. Businesses have paid both federal income taxes and FICA taxes deducted from employees checks now from January, Feb, March, and this information was from April. So, this information has nothing to do with 2017 taxes paid in 2018. It has to do with the taxes businesses have paid into the federal government in 2018 for 2018, in this case April of 2018.
 
Bullseye said:
The bump was in income revenue, not capital gains - Individual income taxes were up 11.5% or about $108 billion.
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OK that was 2017. Never said the economy was not doing well, it is. Better than under Obama, I agree. That being said don't know how cuts going effect in 2018 raised income in 2017.
 
Moderate Right said:
As lefties would say, facts are facts. Even though it is an editorial, it lists facts and it also blames both parties for out of control spending so it is not a purely partisan editorial. However, I will give you that just one month isn't much to base anything on. But, right now it clearly shows that the tax cut isn't "not working".
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Conclusions, which is what I addressed, and what your source editorial tries to draw, are not facts. Do try again, with less fail.
 
Redress said:
Conclusions, which is what I addressed, and what your source editorial tries to draw, are not facts. Do try again, with less fail.
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There were facts in the article and conclusions. The fact is we collected more tax revenues in April 2018 than we did in April 2017. It also listed several other facts. As the left says, facts are facts.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
People are paying taxes from LAST YEAR, the new taxes took place this year. /ENd thread

We all know you didn't read it, you only read titles, and only respond with one liners
Click to expand...

Oh my goodness the lack of self awareness... You don't even read titles. The April mentioned in the thread title is in THIS YEAR.
 
washunut said:
OK that was 2017. Never said the economy was not doing well, it is. Better than under Obama, I agree. That being said don't know how cuts going effect in 2018 raised income in 2017.
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They'll be ups and downs but my bet is on a general upward trend. It'll take a while for the extra money to translate into business growth and consumer spending. Like almost every other economic event there will be early adopters charging off and more cautious folks taking their time. The economy has massive inertia to overcome.
 
Cause and effect becomes our debate point.

The economy has been on a slow incline for years now with the occasional bump or decline for this or that, the question is the amount of time needed to show that tax revenues will continue to climb (thus pay for themselves.)

I would offer that we have not allowed for enough time to know for sure that these tax cuts are the sole reason (or at least main reason) for a tax revenue bump.

The good news for now is that the economy is doing well enough that tax revenues should be up regardless, the bad new is spending is still out of control and we have every indication that it will be difficult to keep up long term growth given the amount of time we have not had a recession. The volatility of both Federal Government decisions and world affairs suggests that it is only a matter of time before something impacts our economic cycle. It does not have to be a massive hit either to still see immediate impact to tax revenue.

We just saw a May Treasury auction where yields are above 3%, suggesting concerns over the Iran Deal withdraw and other factors where economic headwinds might become realized. As a save haven bet, while still good all things considered, the yield suggests concerns.

To every so called “fiscal conservative”... tax cuts paying for themselves is only realized when spending is not headed upwards out of balance with tax revenues (going up or down.) Our deficit condition is still a concern, and Total Debt is on the rise. The stress on our overall fiscal position is noted.

We cannot just focus on tax revenues and call the job done, nor can we point to economic trend in such short periods as if one thing made all the difference. That ignores just about every principle of economics known.
 
From the IBD article:

For the current 2018 fiscal year, which started last October, revenues are $83 billion higher than they were the year before — an increase of 4.3%. That's a faster rate of growth than occurred during President Obama's last years in office. (See nearby chart.)

Individual taxes, the CBO report says, are up 11.5% so far this fiscal year, and payroll taxes are up 2.8%. Both are signs of a healthy labor market, which is creating more jobs, higher wages and, as a result, more tax revenues. Those gains, the CBO says, more than offset the 22% decline in corporate income taxes.
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Moderate Right said:
When Will Dems Admit They Were Wrong About Trump's Tax Cuts?

https://www.investors.com/politics/...nues-record-high-april-paying-for-themselves/
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After the remainder of the CBO's projections are shown to be inaccurate.

From the cited article:
The CBO admitted as much earlier this year, when it sharply increased its forecast for economic growth this year and next, largely because of Trump's tax cuts.​
Now take a look at the CBO's complete report from "earlier this year," namely April.

The CBO predicted the near term growth in GDP, which will indeed result in increased tax revenues. But take a look at the totality of the CBO's prediction re: GDP. What happens? GDP falls below where it was in 2014-15! And there they are projected to stay.

So, yes, one can with all the procrustean zeal one might muster extol the near-term virtues of the tax bill; however, accepting the CBO's analysis, it's clear the crap has yet to hit the fan, as it were.
 
Moderate Right said:
When Will Dems Admit They Were Wrong About Trump's Tax Cuts?





https://www.investors.com/politics/...nues-record-high-april-paying-for-themselves/
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To answer the bolded question:

When an appropriate period of time has passed to accurately evaluate, of course!

What you're seeing now, is the effect of the continuing employment growth that's been occurring for the past 8 years. Revenue has followed the same slope as employment over the same years. I believe the +2.8% payroll tax number is evidence of this.

However, we can immediately see the drop in corporate revenue - 22%! This is extremely troubling, in my mind. The claim made by Trump-GOP was that corporate income would also increase. This is not what we're seeing at this time. Consequently, employment does not go up for ever, and when it does come down we may be in a situation of far less revenue than otherwise usual, due to the decreased corporate revenue.

But in all fairness the effect of these taxes will take a solid year or more, to see if the increasing general revenue trend that occurred during the Obama era, will continue under the Trump era. So there may be a turnaround in corporate revenue as time goes on, though as steep and permanent as those corporate cuts were, I'd be surprised if they ever match parity in normalized terms.

And as mentioned by another poster above, it will take several years to gather a true & full assessment.
 
Bullseye said:
The bump was in income revenue, not capital gains - Individual income taxes were up 11.5% or about $108 billion.
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Yes, but was that from taxes paid on 2017 income?

Most Americans paid their 2017 individual taxes from Feb - April 2018. If so, that would indicate the revenue was generated from 2017 income.

That is the concern.
 
It is still impossible to repay our debts due to the world banks
 
OrphanSlug said:
Cause and effect becomes our debate point.

The economy has been on a slow incline for years now with the occasional bump or decline for this or that, the question is the amount of time needed to show that tax revenues will continue to climb (thus pay for themselves.)

I would offer that we have not allowed for enough time to know for sure that these tax cuts are the sole reason (or at least main reason) for a tax revenue bump.

The good news for now is that the economy is doing well enough that tax revenues should be up regardless, the bad new is spending is still out of control and we have every indication that it will be difficult to keep up long term growth given the amount of time we have not had a recession. The volatility of both Federal Government decisions and world affairs suggests that it is only a matter of time before something impacts our economic cycle. It does not have to be a massive hit either to still see immediate impact to tax revenue.

We just saw a May Treasury auction where yields are above 3%, suggesting concerns over the Iran Deal withdraw and other factors where economic headwinds might become realized. As a save haven bet, while still good all things considered, the yield suggests concerns.

To every so called “fiscal conservative”... tax cuts paying for themselves is only realized when spending is not headed upwards out of balance with tax revenues (going up or down.) Our deficit condition is still a concern, and Total Debt is on the rise. The stress on our overall fiscal position is noted.

We cannot just focus on tax revenues and call the job done, nor can we point to economic trend in such short periods as if one thing made all the difference. That ignores just about every principle of economics known.
Click to expand...
To the bolded:

And what I find a bit disconcerting, is the yield has been flattening the past several months. Which I believe is generally incongruous with going forward with economic expansion.
 
Moderate Right said:
When Will Dems Admit They Were Wrong About Trump's Tax Cuts?





https://www.investors.com/politics/...nues-record-high-april-paying-for-themselves/
Click to expand...

We covered this extensively in another thread. April always has higher revenues since that's when income tax payments mainly are received. It is higher for two reasons: more people working (thanks Obama), paying taxes, and; inflation. Moreover, the tax payments were from 2017 taxes under 2017 rates.

Projections for this year's deficit is still over $800 billion, compared to $650 billion in 2017; due to the tax-cuts. Projections for 2019's deficit is over a trillion.

Democrats will admit they are wrong when they are wrong. So far, all I see is grasping for straws reasons to prove Republicans were right.

Please work on the excuse you will need to give when May 2018 shows a return to record deficits.
 
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Spartacus FPV said:
Oh my goodness the lack of self awareness... You don't even read titles. The April mentioned in the thread title is in THIS YEAR.
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I paid my taxes FOR 2017 on April 17th, 2018. Get it? I didn't pay the 2018 rates. I paid the rates in effect in 2017.
 
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