Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

Rogue Valley · Apr 17, 2018

Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

The GOP leadership. Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, and Paul Ryan.

April 16, 2018

Moments after the Republican tax overhaul passed in the Senate in mid-December, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that if he and his party members couldn’t sell the cuts to the American people, they should find “another line of work.” Four months later, some GOP lawmakers who hoped the law would save them from defeat may have to start dusting off their resumes. Some recent polls show that the majority of Americans still don’t support the tax law, despite an uptick in sentiment since the end of 2017. And a special House election in a conservative district of Pennsylvania in March delivered an upset victory to the Democratic candidate, who’d framed the tax cuts as a giveaway to the wealthy. “If they can’t run on tax cuts in a district Trump won by 20 [points] and win, where can they run on tax cuts and win?” said David Wasserman, House editor of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report. “Most middle-class Americans got a little extra money, but it wasn’t life changing,” said Western Pennsylvania-based Democratic strategist Mike Mikus. “They’d prefer Social Security and Medicare is protected.” Every House seat and one-third of those in the Senate are up for grabs in November.

For Republicans, promoting the tax overhaul -- which is likely to be their only major legislative accomplishment under President Donald Trump by then -- is considered crucial to keeping control of Congress. Most voters say taxes aren’t a top concern. For their part, Democrats are trying to emphasize that middle-class Americans aren’t the biggest beneficiaries of the tax cuts. “The benefits flow to the wealthiest and to corporations that are already sitting on record piles of cash,” said Representative Beto O’Rourke, the Texas Democrat challenging Republican Senator Ted Cruz in November in a race the incumbent is favored to win. Democrats in high-income, high-tax states such as New York, New Jersey, California and Illinois are also highlighting how some of the Republican incumbents voted to limit the state and local tax deduction. Winning in suburban districts is critical for Republicans to hold onto the House. But even the president seems to have trouble staying on topic. Trump literally threw away what he called "boring" remarks about taxes at an economic roundtable in West Virginia on April 5, riffing instead on sending U.S. troops to patrol the border, his 2015 campaign announcement speech about Mexican immigrants, and other subjects.

IMO, voters will regard the Trump/GOP tax legislation as more of an overall negative than a positive. Sure, they'll get a few more dollars in their weekly payroll check, but the GOP is threatening to slash Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to pay for those few dollars. These are hot-button issues that will turn reliable senior voters, 25% of all voters, staunchly against the GOP. In addition, a new CBO study predicts that by 2028, yearly interest payments on US government debt will surpass all annual spending currently dedicated to the US military ($700 billion). A few extra dollars on the weekly check is okay, but it's definitely not worth the debilitating and crushing long-term cost that will be piled onto the backs of our children. The GOP made sure the wealthy got wealthier, and everyone else got hoodwinked.

Related: $1 Trillion Deficits To Return, National Debt To Rise, Projects CBO

Bullseye · Apr 17, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

The GOP leadership. Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, and Paul Ryan.

IMO, voters will regard the Trump/GOP tax legislation as more of an overall negative than a positive. Sure, they'll get a few more dollars in their weekly payroll check, but the GOP is threatening to slash Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to pay for those few dollars. These are hot-button issues that will turn reliable senior voters, 25% of all voters, staunchly against the GOP. In addition, a new CBO study predicts that by 2028, yearly interest payments on US government debt will surpass all annual spending currently dedicated to the US military ($700 billion). A few extra dollars on the weekly check is okay, but it's definitely not worth the debilitating and crushing long-term cost that will be piled onto the backs of our children. The GOP made sure the wealthy got wealthier, and everyone else got hoodwinked.

Related: $1 Trillion Deficits To Return, National Debt To Rise, Projects CBO

Just for accuracy, it's not the GOP "threatening to cut SS and Medicare" - it's the system's trustees who have predicting that for years. They make clear in their annual reports that clear. Medicare has a huge unfunded liability staring them in the face and SS is on the verge of having to pay out more than it takes in; it gets a short reprieve in that the interest on the "social security trust fund" will cover the difference for a few years, but eventually the system is going to have to cash in bonds from the trust.

As far as CBO studies, they're prisoner to the restrictions they are forced to use, e.g. they can't figure in any economic benefits generated by reduced tax rates. Also, would you believe that a few years ago the same report predicted we'd be flirting with surpluses by now? The current study shows about a trillion dollars more in revenue over the last one which was about a year ago. It also uses a pretty low GDP growth after this year. Over all - interesting reading but not chiseled in granite.

Floridafan · Apr 17, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

The GOP leadership. Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, and Paul Ryan.

IMO, voters will regard the Trump/GOP tax legislation as more of an overall negative than a positive. Sure, they'll get a few more dollars in their weekly payroll check, but the GOP is threatening to slash Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to pay for those few dollars. These are hot-button issues that will turn reliable senior voters, 25% of all voters, staunchly against the GOP. In addition, a new CBO study predicts that by 2028, yearly interest payments on US government debt will surpass all annual spending currently dedicated to the US military ($700 billion). A few extra dollars on the weekly check is okay, but it's definitely not worth the debilitating and crushing long-term cost that will be piled onto the backs of our children. The GOP made sure the wealthy got wealthier, and everyone else got hoodwinked.

Related: $1 Trillion Deficits To Return, National Debt To Rise, Projects CBO

We must also consider the increases in ACA premiums, due to Trumps tactics. Most people, who are insured through the ACA, will pay much more for insurance, which more than offsets any tax savings.

MTAtech · Apr 17, 2018

The GOP rammed through a massive tax cut for wealthy and corporations, with a few crumbs for ordinary families and is now shocked (shocked I tell you) to find few families seeing gains.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/380886-gop-tax-message-hits-a-snag

Chutzpah: when you murder your parents, then plead for mercy because you're an orphan. Or, when you back a budget-busting tax cut, then demand spending cuts because we face a debt crisis.

Lovebug · Apr 17, 2018

Today is today. Lets wait and see what happens from now on.

Smokified · Apr 18, 2018

Floridafan said:
We must also consider the increases in ACA premiums, due to Trumps tactics. Most people, who are insured through the ACA, will pay much more for insurance, which more than offsets any tax savings.

Can you clarify what increases are due to "Trump's tactics"? Most people who are insured through the ACA were already paying much more for insurance with significant projected increases long before Trump was even an idea.

The GOP rammed through a massive tax cut for wealthy and corporations, with a few crumbs for ordinary families and is now shocked (shocked I tell you) to find few families seeing gains.

The leftist narrative is that this tax cut only benefits the wealthy and corporations, but if you actually look at the changes to the tax brackets without having a liberal rag with a liberal agenda explain it to you, you can see that the narrative is completely false.

Furthermore, you would far more drastically improve the state of the US economy if you would require a minimum of 1% income tax on the 47% of US citizens who do not pay taxes (who are ABLE to generate income) than you would if you took 100% of the income from the top 2% who already pay the most taxes already.

Critter7r · Apr 19, 2018

Smokified said:
Furthermore, you would far more drastically improve the state of the US economy if you would require a minimum of 1% income tax on the 47% of US citizens who do not pay taxes (who are ABLE to generate income) than you would if you took 100% of the income from the top 2% who already pay the most taxes already.

The median individual income for 2016 was $32,000. Even assuming that half of all full-time workers actually earn $32,000, taxing 1% from all of those people would net us about $24 Billion. I don't see a "drastic" improvement of the US economy happening by taking away $300 per year from someone that takes home less than $2,000 per month (after taxes. even if they get that tax money back at the end of the year, they paid it out of each paycheck over that year).

Why not increase the top 53% by that same 1%? If it ain't gonna be a big deal to someone making $32,000 (by your estimation), then certainly it won't hinder someone earning $75,000 or $200,000 or more.

Smokified · Apr 19, 2018

Critter7r said:
The median individual income for 2016 was $32,000. Even assuming that half of all full-time workers actually earn $32,000, taxing 1% from all of those people would net us about $24 Billion. I don't see a "drastic" improvement of the US economy happening by taking away $300 per year from someone that takes home less than $2,000 per month (after taxes. even if they get that tax money back at the end of the year, they paid it out of each paycheck over that year).

Why not increase the top 53% by that same 1%? If it ain't gonna be a big deal to someone making $32,000 (by your estimation), then certainly it won't hinder someone earning $75,000 or $200,000 or more.

The median household income was actually nearly $60,000 in 2016. You are also not factoring in that the bottom 47% actually cost us tax dollars. If you get more of that 47% of people to go to work and stop pandering to the idea that you are somehow supposed to be able to live a comfortable life off of minimum wage/unskilled jobs, we are talking a lot more tax revenue and a lot less tax burden.

Critter7r · Apr 19, 2018

Smokified said:
The median household income was actually nearly $60,000 in 2016.

And the INDIVIDUAL median income (which I specified) was about $32,000.

You are also not factoring in that the bottom 47% actually cost us tax dollars. If you get more of that 47% of people to go to work and stop pandering to the idea that you are somehow supposed to be able to live a comfortable life off of minimum wage/unskilled jobs, we are talking a lot more tax revenue and a lot less tax burden.

Compared to what?

Conservative · Apr 19, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

The GOP leadership. Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, and Paul Ryan.

IMO, voters will regard the Trump/GOP tax legislation as more of an overall negative than a positive. Sure, they'll get a few more dollars in their weekly payroll check, but the GOP is threatening to slash Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to pay for those few dollars. These are hot-button issues that will turn reliable senior voters, 25% of all voters, staunchly against the GOP. In addition, a new CBO study predicts that by 2028, yearly interest payments on US government debt will surpass all annual spending currently dedicated to the US military ($700 billion). A few extra dollars on the weekly check is okay, but it's definitely not worth the debilitating and crushing long-term cost that will be piled onto the backs of our children. The GOP made sure the wealthy got wealthier, and everyone else got hoodwinked.

Related: $1 Trillion Deficits To Return, National Debt To Rise, Projects CBO

One more time, CBO Scored this tax cut in November 2017, today we have a projected GDP growth by Kiplinger of 3.8%, and already have 3 million more taxpayers per month vs. Obama and almost 1 million more full time employees coming from those part time jobs Obama created which will impact the deficit which of course you wan tto ignore. That plus tax cuts putting more money into the hands of the consumer is hardly a negative for anyone other than the Democrats who will be running on the slogan, "I tried to keep those Republicans from allowing you to keep more of what you earn so vote for me!"

MTAtech · Apr 19, 2018

Conservative said:
One more time, CBO Scored this tax cut in November 2017, today we have a projected GDP growth by Kiplinger of 3.8%, and already have 3 million more taxpayers per month vs. Obama and almost 1 million more full time employees coming from those part time jobs Obama created which will impact the deficit which of course you wan tto ignore. That plus tax cuts putting more money into the hands of the consumer is hardly a negative for anyone other than the Democrats who will be running on the slogan, "I tried to keep those Republicans from allowing you to keep more of what you earn so vote for me!"

Oh please. Republican claims about the benefits of tax cuts aren’t just out of line with independent estimates; they’re so far out of the ballpark as to be in a different universe.

The Trump tax cut doesn’t seem to be winning more support over time.

The new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows that the tax cuts, never broadly popular, have sagged in public esteem lately — just 27 percent of Americans call them a good idea.

Conservative · Apr 19, 2018

MTAtech said:
Oh please. Republican claims about the benefits of tax cuts aren’t just out of line with independent estimates; they’re so far out of the ballpark as to be in a different universe.

The Trump tax cut doesn’t seem to be winning more support over time.

LOL, too bad you didn't have this kind of impatience with Obama, the results are there for all to see but you choose to ignore the economic results being generated. Your loss. You really have a problem with people keeping more of what they earn, why? How does that hurt you, your family, or the country? Still no answer from you so I keep asking the question. Fact, there are 3 million more Americans working today than when Trump took office and there are 700-800 more full time workers coming from the part time jobs Obama created, so like it or not those are results that already are beating anything Obama and liberalism generated.

Love the trend especially from 2012-2016, who controlled the Congress during that period of time?

jaeger19 · Apr 20, 2018

Smokified said:
The median household income was actually nearly $60,000 in 2016. You are also not factoring in that the bottom 47% actually cost us tax dollars. If you get more of that 47% of people to go to work and stop pandering to the idea that you are somehow supposed to be able to live a comfortable life off of minimum wage/unskilled jobs, we are talking a lot more tax revenue and a lot less tax burden.

You do realize that the 47% are made up of college students who are going to school, elderly who are retired Disabled.. .. and working people who don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes.

Conservative · Apr 20, 2018

jaeger19 said:
You do realize that the 47% are made up of college students who are going to school, elderly who are retired Disabled.. .. and working people who don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes.

That is distortion, the issue is income earning Americans and 47% of them aren't paying FIT which is what funds the Federal govt. but you have proven you have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. If you don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes how do you cut taxes on those people?

jaeger19 · Apr 20, 2018

Conservative said:
That is distortion, the issue is income earning Americans and 47% of them aren't paying FIT which is what funds the Federal govt. but you have proven you have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. If you don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes how do you cut taxes on those people?

Nope.. that's not a distortion.. its a fact..

Oh.. and why are those working people not paying income tax.. because their income is too low.. especially after that earned income credit...

Hey.. who was such a supporter of the earned income credit.

We’ve noted that the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), which reduces poverty while encouraging and rewarding work, has enjoyed broad support over the years. One of its champions was President Reagan, who proposed and then signed a major expansion of it in the 1986 Tax Reform Act

By the way.. if you don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes.. how do you cut taxes on those people?

By cutting FICA taxes.. which is what Obama did.

Or cutting excise taxes etc.

Conservative · Apr 20, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Nope.. that's not a distortion.. its a fact..

Oh.. and why are those working people not paying income tax.. because their income is too low.. especially after that earned income credit...

Hey.. who was such a supporter of the earned income credit.

By the way.. if you don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes.. how do you cut taxes on those people?

By cutting FICA taxes.. which is what Obama did.

Or cutting excise taxes etc.

So you have no problem cutting funding for SS and Medicare that is trillions in unfunded mandates? Keep kicking that can down the road and not it isn't a delusion, you get a $500 rebate, spent it, and it's gone, cut rates and every paycheck has more money.

So run on that issue of cutting funding for SS and Medicare. Let's see how that plays out.

jaeger19 · Apr 20, 2018

Conservative said:
So you have no problem cutting funding for SS and Medicare that is trillions in unfunded mandates? Keep kicking that can down the road and not it isn't a delusion, you get a $500 rebate, spent it, and it's gone, cut rates and every paycheck has more money.

So run on that issue of cutting funding for SS and Medicare. Let's see how that plays out.

BWWWAAAAAHHHH...

You really have no clue about this do you?

Okay.. lets examine your argument. So.. FICA taxes are reduced.. and puts more money in the hands of the working class. NOW you are lamenting that these tax cuts INCREASE the SS and Medicare Deficits? WAIT.. I thought that tax cuts that put more money in the hands of working people.. should GROW the economy and thus INCREASE revenue into Medicare and Social security because of increased wages and employment!!!!

And now you are telling us that tax cuts INCREASE deficits instead of decreasing them by increasing revenue???!?!?!?

Conservative · Apr 20, 2018

jaeger19 said:
BWWWAAAAAHHHH...

You really have no clue about this do you?

Okay.. lets examine your argument. So.. FICA taxes are reduced.. and puts more money in the hands of the working class. NOW you are lamenting that these tax cuts INCREASE the SS and Medicare Deficits? WAIT.. I thought that tax cuts that put more money in the hands of working people.. should GROW the economy and thus INCREASE revenue into Medicare and Social security because of increased wages and employment!!!!

And now you are telling us that tax cuts INCREASE deficits instead of decreasing them by increasing revenue???!?!?!?

Unfricken believable! you don't get it and believe me I won't make the mistake of giving you too much credit in the future. SS and Medicare were put on budget back in the 60's, the money was used to fund the Vietnam war and politicians kept the money on budget and then used for the OPERATING EXPENSES of the govt. to show a lower deficit. Now we have the baby boomers retiring and now it has become a Ponzi scheme where younger people are paying for my SS and Medicare because my money has been spent that I was forced to contribute for 35 years. Cutting FICA taxes did put more money into the hands of the people but that didn't repay the SS and Medicare fund for any of the "stolen" money or fund the IOU's

Your total ignorance of the economy, the budget is quite obvious and stunning.

MTAtech · Apr 20, 2018

jaeger19 said:
You do realize that the 47% are made up of college students who are going to school, elderly who are retired Disabled.. .. and working people who don't earn enough to qualify for income taxes.

Conservative · Apr 21, 2018

MTAtech said:
View attachment 67231968

Look, if someone is earning income they should be paying SOMETHING in Federal Income taxes to fund the govt. that gives them the opportunity to make that income. Keep promoting that welfare state which creates the permanent liberal base of power through dependence.

MTAtech · Apr 21, 2018

Conservative said:
Look, if someone is earning income they should be paying SOMETHING in Federal Income taxes to fund the govt. that gives them the opportunity to make that income. Keep promoting that welfare state which creates the permanent liberal base of power through dependence.

This is wrong on many levels. First, President Reagan, deemed the Earned Income Tax Credit, which lowers the income tax liability of many low-income workers, is “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” He had a point.

The Tax Policy Center:

Low-income households typically pay some federal tax. The Tax Policy Center estimates that, on average in 2017, households in the lowest income quintile (the bottom fifth) will owe federal taxes equal to 3.7 percent of their incomes, much lower than the average 20.1 percent tax rate for all households.

Second, why should low income workers pay any federal tax? The objective of taxation is to raise money for the government. The amount of money that would be raised taxing these workers is negligible. How negligible? The bottom 50% earn 12.75% of total earnings. In 2014, 139.6 million taxpayers reported earning $9.71 trillion in adjusted gross income. Those people still pay some taxes already. So, how much revenue does anyone think they can squeeze from this group?

Conservative · Apr 21, 2018

MTAtech said:
This is wrong on many levels. First, President Reagan, deemed the Earned Income Tax Credit, which lowers the income tax liability of many low-income workers, is “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” He had a point.

The Tax Policy Center:

Second, why should low income workers pay any federal tax? The objective of taxation is to raise money for the government. The amount of money that would be raised taxing these workers is negligible. How negligible? The bottom 50% earn 12.75% of total earnings. In 2014, 139.6 million taxpayers reported earning $9.71 trillion in adjusted gross income. Those people still pay some taxes already. So, how much revenue does anyone think they can squeeze from this group?

Why? because they receive some benefit from the govt. but when you talk about Federal Taxes you just show that you continue to not understand the taxes you pay and their purpose. Every income earning American should pay something in Federal INCOME taxes to fund the govt. including their own national security. The objective of taxes is to FUND the operating expenses of the federal govt including National Security(Defense) so paying some taxes ignores what taxes those are and what they fund.

MTAtech · Apr 21, 2018

Conservative said:
Why? because they receive some benefit from the govt. but when you talk about Federal Taxes you just show that you continue to not understand the taxes you pay and their purpose. Every income earning American should pay something in Federal INCOME taxes to fund the govt. including their own national security. The objective of taxes is to FUND the operating expenses of the federal govt including National Security(Defense) so paying some taxes ignores what taxes those are and what they fund.

As previously stated, most of those people who pay near or zero taxes are workers who make so little that they have no federal income tax liability (by design [e.g. Reagan]) but they still pay payroll taxes; seniors receiving Social Security and students, the disabled, etc. This isn't really a ripe place that will make any meaningful difference to federal revenues but impose a cruel burden on these people.

Conservative · Apr 21, 2018

MTAtech said:
As previously stated, most of those people who pay near or zero taxes are workers who make so little that they have no federal income tax liability (by design [e.g. Reagan]) but they still pay payroll taxes; seniors receiving Social Security and students, the disabled, etc. This isn't really a ripe place that will make any meaningful difference to federal revenues but impose a cruel burden on these people.

Why does it matter what you earn as you are getting benefit from the Federal Govt. so you pay SOMETHING. Payroll taxes come back to these people as they put money in for their retirement supplement. Federal Income taxes fund the operating expenses of the govt. You don't seem to grasp the concept, not surprising

MTAtech · Apr 21, 2018

Conservative said:
Why does it matter what you earn as you are getting benefit from the Federal Govt. so you pay SOMETHING. Payroll taxes come back to these people as they put money in for their retirement supplement. Federal Income taxes fund the operating expenses of the govt. You don't seem to grasp the concept, not surprising

It isn’t that I don’t “grasp the concept” I merely have a different view. I think that people with low income should not be paying much taxes, if any and that those with much should carry the burden. You disagree. I just think my view is morally superior to the capitalism red in tooth and claw we had before the New Deal. It’s only right for the affluent to help the less fortunate.

Republicans Struggle to Make Tax Cuts a Winning Election Issue

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way

Bullseye

All Lives Matter or No Lives Matter

Floridafan

MTAtech

Lovebug

Be humble and kind

Smokified

Member

Critter7r

Smokified

Member

Critter7r

Conservative

MTAtech

Conservative

jaeger19

Conservative

jaeger19

Conservative

jaeger19

Conservative

MTAtech

Conservative

MTAtech

Conservative

MTAtech

Conservative

MTAtech