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The fiscal picture is worse than it looks—and it looks bad

NO it isn't. that is utter nonsense. tax policy doesn't drive anything towards recession unless you
hike taxes to obscene levels.

YOu guys just pull anything out of the air don't you?

:roll:

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/cause-of-recession.asp

Cutting taxes during times of near or full employment which then result in large deficits results in government squeezing and competing for funds, which drives up borrowing costs, which then results in inflation, which then result in the Fed tightening money, which then results in recession.
 
Lowering the corp tax-rate has no effect except to allow corps to buy back their stock. There is no productivity gain at all.

Did not talk to productivity but to competitiveness. Not sure you ever did a cash flow analysis on where to site a new facility. How silly is that concept when even states compete through tax breaks.

Of course you probably don't think lowering the cost of purchasing capital equipment is a productivity enhancer.

Can't say I am surprised how partisan hack comments are substituted for legitimate debate on this site. I do wonder if people actually believe the stuff they write or are just having fun.

Some will learn over time that the world is not as black and white but has a bunch of gray.
 
Did not talk to productivity but to competitiveness. Not sure you ever did a cash flow analysis on where to site a new facility. How silly is that concept when even states compete through tax breaks.

Of course you probably don't think lowering the cost of purchasing capital equipment is a productivity enhancer.

Can't say I am surprised how partisan hack comments are substituted for legitimate debate on this site. I do wonder if people actually believe the stuff they write or are just having fun.

Some will learn over time that the world is not as black and white but has a bunch of gray.

U
mmm.... how do lowering the corporation income tax rate, lowers the cost of purchasing equipment?
 
Cutting taxes during times of near or full employment which then result in large deficits results in government squeezing and competing for funds, which drives up borrowing costs, which then results in inflation, which then result in the Fed tightening money, which then results in recession.

*sigh*

deficits don't matter remember?
so which is it?

you should read the article i posted it is a basic overview but it should help you.
no where in there was taxes mentioned interesting enough.

tax policy is long term not immediate returns.

we have reached about the maxed limit on tax cuts.
 
Why do you only have pictures of republicans? Why not include a photo of Schumer or Durbin or the other 33 democrat senators who voted for the spending bill? Oh I get it, being honest would destroy your phony narrative. Carry on then.
oh fletch, see how you have to pretend the worsening debt picture is only because of spending. Its what makes you such an obedient conservative (or conservative like poster). The good news is that democrats voting for the spending bill proves they are not flaming lying hypocrites on deficits the way republicans are. Anyhoo, how does the conservative (or conservative like poster) brain deal with the fact that republicans are flaming lying hypocrites where deficits are concerned? Must take a toll obediently shilling for republicans when you know everything they say is a lie.
 
*sigh*

deficits don't matter remember?
so which is it?

Oh ludin, cheney said deficits don't matter. Why does every conservative (or conservative like poster) pretend not to know that? Surely at some point even a conservative (or conservative like poster) like yourself has to wonder why deficits shoot up under republicans and down under democrats.
 
Democrat senators? Still don't know the difference between an adjective and a noun?
I thought repubs were in charge of all 3?

and that's the problem with conservatives (and conservative like posters), even with republicans in complete control, they are responsible for nothing. Accountability is just another word they mindlessly parrot with no idea what it means. You just cant foam at the mouth about deficits for 8 years, elect republicans to fix the "problem" and then stand around whining "but but but 33 democrat senators voted for the spending bill" without even the slightest concept of how foolish that looks. But yet they do.
 
Oh ludin, cheney said deficits don't matter. Why does every conservative (or conservative like poster) pretend not to know that? Surely at some point even a conservative (or conservative like poster) like yourself has to wonder why deficits shoot up under republicans and down under democrats.

So Vern things are worse than they seem? 3 million more employed today than when Obama left office, double the GDP, 8% U-6, lower part time for economic reasons? You sure have a different standard than most people so tell me exactly what Trump result bothers you the most? You want the Democrats to take control of Congress and then do exactly what? I expect you to run like you always do
 
U
mmm.... how do lowering the corporation income tax rate, lowers the cost of purchasing equipment?

There is a provision that allows 100% write-off. So there is an immediate tax savings. This lowers the effective cost of the equipment.
 
Will it be worse than the last recession?

so tell me exactly what official results indicate that we are worse off than it looks? Interesting how you buy the negative rhetoric and predictions but ignore the actual results. Today we have 3 million more Americans working, 1 million more working full time vs. part time for economic reasons, and double the GDP percentage Obama left Trump so tell us exactly what ACTUAL economic results bother you?
 
and that's the problem with conservatives (and conservative like posters), even with republicans in complete control, they are responsible for nothing. Accountability is just another word they mindlessly parrot with no idea what it means. You just cant foam at the mouth about deficits for 8 years, elect republicans to fix the "problem" and then stand around whining "but but but 33 democrat senators voted for the spending bill" without even the slightest concept of how foolish that looks. But yet they do.

Vern, you are a partisan liberal hack that has no understanding of the economic results that are actually generated and always ignore anything that refutes your opinions. After 8 years of Obama we have results that already provide half the jobs he created in 8 years, double the GDP percentage growth, and cut the Obama last U-6 rate by 1.2% down to pre recession lows something Obama never generated

You have a very distorted view of reality and totally ignore the economic results being generated as you always blame someone else for personal failures so tell me Vern, you want the Democrats to regain the Congress in 18 so what can we expect from their leadership since the current economic conditions don't suit your ideology?
 
It is absolutely astounding how dishonest many republican voters are. Republicans have been doing this dirty nonsense for decades, and yet they keep buying it. There is no denying the sketchiness of republicans, particularly under Trump presidency. Yet, we see people defending them over and over. They aren't even hiding it, all leaving and eventually going to get cushy jobs to cash in on their theft of the treasury. And they have no shame in even trying to hide it

And people keep sticking their heads up their asses and ignoring it
You got anything to say about the topic, rather than just spewing mindless personal attacks?
 
Why do you only have pictures of republicans? Why not include a photo of Schumer or Durbin or the other 33 democrat senators who voted for the spending bill? Oh I get it, being honest would destroy your phony narrative. Carry on then.

Actually, what would be fair is to picture those that supported the spending bill AND the tax bill. Increasing spending and cutting taxes at the same time when the government was already running deficits was nonsensical. We should shame those buffoons..... Wait, those are the buffoons pictured. Carry on then.
 
Actually, what would be fair is to picture those that supported the spending bill AND the tax bill. Increasing spending and cutting taxes at the same time when the government was already running deficits was nonsensical. We should shame those buffoons..... Wait, those are the buffoons pictured. Carry on then.

Nice try, but you cant clear democrats on this. If you guys were so concerned about the negative budget effects of the tax cuts, dems would have voted to cut spending not increase it.
 
There is a provision that allows 100% write-off. So there is an immediate tax savings. This lowers the effective cost of the equipment.

There is nothing new about 100% write-offs of equipment. That goes back to the Reagan era. That would be Sec 179 of your tax code.
 
Nice try, but you cant clear democrats on this. If you guys were so concerned about the negative budget effects of the tax cuts, dems would have voted to cut spending not increase it.

Democrats can not use the men's room without Republican approval. Sorry, its entirely on the Cons.... just another Con job.

The real stupidity in this, however, are the tax cuts. You want tax cuts? You cut spending first. No, the Cons chose to cut taxes during a full employment economy while we were running deficits. Welcome back $1T per year deficits during a full employment economy. That means we are living in a bubble.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cbo-forecasts-the-return-of-trillion-dollar-deficits-2018-04-09
 
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so tell me exactly what official results indicate that we are worse off than it looks? Interesting how you buy the negative rhetoric and predictions but ignore the actual results. Today we have 3 million more Americans working, 1 million more working full time vs. part time for economic reasons, and double the GDP percentage Obama left Trump so tell us exactly what ACTUAL economic results bother you?

Do you see the question mark at the end of my 'question'?
 
Democrats can not use the men's room without Republican approval. Sorry, its entirely on the Cons.... just another Con job.

The real stupidity in this, however, are the tax cuts. You want tax cuts? You cut spending first. No, the Cons chose to cut taxes during a full employment economy while we were running deficits. Welcome back $1T per year deficits during a full employment economy. That means we are living in a bubble.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cbo-forecasts-the-return-of-trillion-dollar-deficits-2018-04-09

Maybe your party should run on raising taxes this fall.
 
There is nothing new about 100% write-offs of equipment. That goes back to the Reagan era. That would be Sec 179 of your tax code.

The new part is it gets to written off in year 1.
 
The government has already confirmed that the tax cuts will be directly responsible for 1-2 trillion increase in our debt. Is the republican plan to raise our debts so high that we will be forced to cut social services?

Thats DEBT. You said "Yearly deficits of 1 trillion plus are projected by 2020, and if the tax cuts remain in place they could grow to 2 trillion yearly, shortly afterwards." That implies tax cuts responsible for an additional trillion per year, which is simply not possible. And again, revenue goes UP, even with the tax cuts. The 1 trillion plus is only 10% at most because of the tax cuts, so why focus on them instead of the 90% that is SPENDING?

Fact is, with out the tax cuts, the debt was going up by another 10 trillion anyway because of social services. Whats another 2 at this point? Personally if we're going to keep spending and borrowing, Id rather my earnings back in my pocket.

No, thats not the GOP plan.
 
It is absolutely astounding how dishonest many republican voters are. Republicans have been doing this dirty nonsense for decades, and yet they keep buying it. There is no denying the sketchiness of republicans, particularly under Trump presidency. Yet, we see people defending them over and over. They aren't even hiding it, all leaving and eventually going to get cushy jobs to cash in on their theft of the treasury. And they have no shame in even trying to hide it

And people keep sticking their heads up their asses and ignoring it

The dire straits of our fiscal policy more than doubled under our previous president. I don't this is a Republican problem. It's a congressional problem.
 
There is a provision that allows 100% write-off. So there is an immediate tax savings. This lowers the effective cost of the equipment.
Those provisions were always in the tax code. However, when tax rates are low the effect of the write-off is lower too, decreasing, not increasing, any incentive to invest in plant and equipment.

Thus, if a piece of equipment cost $1 million. If the old tax-rate was 30%, the after-tax cost of the equipment is $700,000. However, if the tax-rate is 15%, the after-tax cost is $850,000.
 
Thats DEBT. You said "Yearly deficits of 1 trillion plus are projected by 2020, and if the tax cuts remain in place they could grow to 2 trillion yearly, shortly afterwards." That implies tax cuts responsible for an additional trillion per year, which is simply not possible. And again, revenue goes UP, even with the tax cuts. The 1 trillion plus is only 10% at most because of the tax cuts, so why focus on them instead of the 90% that is SPENDING?

Fact is, with out the tax cuts, the debt was going up by another 10 trillion anyway because of social services. Whats another 2 at this point? Personally if we're going to keep spending and borrowing, Id rather my earnings back in my pocket.

No, thats not the GOP plan.

The economy will grow due to the tax cuts, BUT it wont grow enough too offset the decrease in revenues. If you disagree, talk to our government who have issued these predictions.
Just which social services are going to increase our debt by 10 trillion?
 
The dire straits of our fiscal policy more than doubled under our previous president. I don't this is a Republican problem. It's a congressional problem.
Actually, that's not true. The "previous president" made it so the upper-end of the Bush tax-cuts expired in 2013, over the objection of the Republicans. As a result, income rose and the deficit shrank by 75%. Now, due to the GOP tax-cut fetish, deficits will rise in relatively good economic times.

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