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The Swamp?

WCH said:
IMF, World Bank [IBRD], UN, etc. All of them work toward neutering America and creating a one-world Socialist hegemony.
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you do realize that the IMF, World Bank, and the UN were all instutions created and established by The United States?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
you do realize that the IMF, World Bank, and the UN were all institutions created and established by The United States?
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The Bretton Woods conference was held in the US but representatives from 44 countries were involved.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/International_Monetary_Fund

"The United Nations came into existence on October 24, 1945, after the Charter had been ratified by the five permanent members of the Security Council - China, France, USSR, UK, and the United States - and by a majority of the other 46 signatories."

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/United_Nations_Security_Council
 
WCH said:
The Bretton Woods conference was held in the US but representatives from 44 countries were involved.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/International_Monetary_Fund

"The United Nations came into existence on October 24, 1945, after the Charter had been ratified by the five permanent members of the Security Council - China, France, USSR, UK, and the United States - and by a majority of the other 46 signatories."

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/United_Nations_Security_Council
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but the united states was still the driving force behind the creation of the IMF, the World Bank, and the UN.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
but the united states was still the driving force behind the creation of the IMF, the World Bank, and the UN.
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What difference would that make as to what is happening today? I stand by what I said.
 
WCH said:
IMF, World Bank [IBRD], UN, etc. All of them work toward neutering America and creating a one-world Socialist hegemony.
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The notion that the World Bank is Socialist and has any power to "neutering America," when the U.S. has the highest share of votes on the governing board, is as absurd as it sounds.

What you have bought into is the New World Order conspiracy theory:

The New World Order or NWO is claimed to be an emerging clandestine totalitarian world government by various conspiracy theories.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP]
The common theme in conspiracy theories about a New World Order is that a secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government—which will replace sovereign nation-states—and an all-encompassing propaganda whose ideology hails the establishment of the New World Order as the culmination of history's progress. Many influential historical and contemporary figures have therefore been purported to be part of a cabal that operates through many front organizations to orchestrate significant political and financial events, ranging from causing systemic crises to pushing through controversial policies, at both national and international levels, as steps in an ongoing plot to achieve world domination.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP]
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MTAtech said:
The notion that the World Bank is Socialist and has any power to "neutering America," when the U.S. has the highest share of votes on the governing board, is as absurd as it sounds.

What you have bought into is the New World Order conspiracy theory:
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Is this new to you?

The Bible describes what will occur as a precursor to the endtimes....a one world government/religion.

https://www.gotquestions.org/United-Nations-end-times.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKdEEgOzcPI
 
MTAtech said:
I’m not a Trump supporter but it took me awhile to realize that Trump supporters defined the "swamp" very differently from the way I did. I simply misunderstood what they meant, and I think a lot of us liberals do.

I had thought the "swamp" was about self-dealing insiders who profited from their connections in government by pulling strings for their own private benefit or profit. That’s the way Trump implied Clinton acted, even if it wasn’t true. But I now realize that's not what they meant at all. They meant "government officials who help people they don't like."

That's why it doesn't faze Trump supporters at all when he fills the government with lobbyists and corporate executives who'll directly benefit from their regulatory decisions, uses government planes and money as if it was their private property or when he relaxes or simply ignores ethics laws and regulations.

That's not the swamp to them. Instead, the swamp is government employees who write regulations to help poor people, or prevent discrimination, or make people use energy-efficient light bulbs. It doesn't matter whether those are civil service employees who'll never earn an extra dime due to the decisions they make. They're still the "swamp." And Trump is absolutely clearing THAT swamp — making America a worse place.
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And you are right.

"Draining the swamp" means having their own self-dealing insiders who profited from their connections in government by pulling strings for their own private benefit or profit,
 
tecoyah said:
I am interested in hearing from the Trump supporter as to what they feel about "the Swamp" right now. The phrase first became popular in 1983 when President Ronald Reagan said he was in Washington "to drain the swamp," a reference to limiting the reach and growth of government but it seems it has been reworked to mean getting rid of career professionals and replacing them with...what we now have.
How do you folks feel about the current state of affairs.
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To my knowledge, no one has ever defined who or what the swamp actually is, including Trump. Everyone's got their own opinions. But, if this is yet another anti-Trump post it just proves the point that the swamp was so huge, it can't be drained by anyone. Trump won against 16 other Republicans and beat Hillary, making it so that pretty much everyone hated him on both sides. So, the deep state that was already in place, consisting of both Republicans and Democrats, have dug in with their heels and resisted Trump's attempts to drain the swamp. Trump's only error was in not realizing that the entire area of DC was swampland, with such deep roots that it couldn't be removed. Like quicksand, the more Trump flails around trying to get rid of the swamp, the more it swallows him up. Not his fault. It is too late for our country to drain the swamp. It's like a B science fiction movie. I consider the swamp to be the DC politicians themselves, of whom Trump can't get rid of them, only voters can and every election just brings a choice between this person from the swamp or that person from the swamp, so the swamp always wins.
 
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MTAtech said:
I’m not a Trump supporter but it took me awhile to realize that Trump supporters defined the "swamp" very differently from the way I did. I simply misunderstood what they meant, and I think a lot of us liberals do.

I had thought the "swamp" was about self-dealing insiders who profited from their connections in government by pulling strings for their own private benefit or profit. That’s the way Trump implied Clinton acted, even if it wasn’t true. But I now realize that's not what they meant at all. They meant "government officials who help people they don't like."

That's why it doesn't faze Trump supporters at all when he fills the government with lobbyists and corporate executives who'll directly benefit from their regulatory decisions, uses government planes and money as if it was their private property or when he relaxes or simply ignores ethics laws and regulations.

That's not the swamp to them. Instead, the swamp is government employees who write regulations to help poor people, or prevent discrimination, or make people use energy-efficient light bulbs. It doesn't matter whether those are civil service employees who'll never earn an extra dime due to the decisions they make. They're still the "swamp." And Trump is absolutely clearing THAT swamp — making America a worse place.
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The Swamp is the guy who you pissed off on the phone and he put you on the "no fly list" and you are forever grounded until you can come up with $1500 to sit down with your congressman and plead for him to get your name removed.
The Swamp are leakers who seek to undermine you at every turn because they are still on the other side and fight in the trenches to deny America who they voted for.
The Swamp is the guy who ships a general a new jeep in exchange or a nice letter of recommendation. However, the troops in the field didn't get the new body armor. It was too heavy to fit on the plane with the new jeep and all.
The Swamp is the guy who tossed your VA claim because you pissed him off.
The Swamp is the guy who doesn't give a **** that you have two eight hour jobs 500 miles apart on contributing your SSA account. It's not his identity that was stolen.

I used to work for Fish & Game after college in the '70's and I know what a bunch of ****ers bureaucrats can be.
 
code1211 said:
At this point, the Swamp is putting up a good fight.

I'll be interested in seeing how it comes out.

The Republican Democrat coalition are doing everything possible to stop Trump from implementing the solutions he describes.

Their various allies in the press are doing what they can to support the fallacies the Democrat Republican Coalition advance.

I'm having a great deal of trouble understanding why fighting the unfair trade actions of China is a bad thing, but everyone is saying that it is. Can you explain it?

How about unifying the population as "Americans", lowering taxes, reducing spending, invigorating the economy and returning power to the people? Why are these things bad?

What you call "career professionals", I assume like Andy McCabe, I call un-indicted co-conspirators. The same ID applies to many swamp creatures, some of whom we already know from the IRS and the DOJ and both political parties.

The career professionals are not yet gone. The battle rages on.
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Fighting a spider in your bathroom isn't a bad thing either. But if you use a flamethrower, you're going to burn down your house. Using the right tool for the job is important.
 
tecoyah said:
The first thing to do is examine the term "Unfair Trade Practices" and understand it is a subjective situation. Many of Chinas trade deals are indeed unfair in the minds of us and completely Kosher to them. We must also consider the unforeseen but relatively obvious results of instigating a trade war which will heavily damage or destroy many American businesses and barely touch China.

If Trump was working toward these thing it would be great...instead he is dividing the population (by race, gender and status) increasing our debt, giving tax breaks to the rich and making money from his office.
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Please define how saying "All Americans" divides "by race, gender and status".

China is not alone as a developing free economy in trying to regulate its citizens.

I am certainly not completely versed on this, but I do know that When Charles Dickens was trying to sell copies of "A Christmas Carol" in the USA, it was routinely ripped off by plagiarists who changed a few words, and sold the cheapened version freely.

"Intellectual property" is not well understood until there is case law to define it. In China today, we can sell them discs with content, but the content can then be stolen legally and resold.

We can sell them technology, but the technology can then be duplicated and sold with no profit being sent to the originators.

Tariffs on Chinese cars coming here are 2.5%. Tariffs on American cars going there are 25%. What's wrong with this picture?

Without someone saying that there needs to be a change to just practices, there will never be a change.

As Dean Wormer said in "Animal House", "The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.". Trump is our foot. :) . We've needed one for some time now.

Regarding the debt, the practices of the last two presidents have about doubled the debt over their 8 years. Trump is well behind that pace. Is the slowing of that pace under Trump the thing to which you object?
 
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Critter7r said:
Fighting a spider in your bathroom isn't a bad thing either. But if you use a flamethrower, you're going to burn down your house. Using the right tool for the job is important.
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I don't think he's fighting the trade issues with a flame thrower.

China has made additional trade concessions as the week has rolled forward.

In the past, the negotiations have not produced the good results that were hoped for and the belligerent practices by china have continued.

China has been dragging their feet in implementing intellectual property laws and are hiding behind protectionist tariffs.

Why do you endorse these policies when used by China, but condemn them when proposed by Trump?
 
I see the Swamp more generally as being the abuse of power and generally shady tactics by both political establishments and the intelligence community/justice department. Andrew McCabe was swampy. Peter Strzek and Lisa Page are swampy with their email exchanges. Loretta Lynch and the Clintons are swampy with their tarmac meeting. James Comey is swampy with the way he is going around attacking President Trump. I guess you could say James Comey is swampy in some ways, but he certainly isn't the worst offender. Now John Brennan and James Clapper are some of the swampiest liars in the country. I think the way Paul Ryan tried to undermine President Trump was a bit swampy. The way Mitch McConnell operates is swampy. The way the DNC worked to screw Bernie Sanders and then argued in court that they don't need to have a fair election was one of the swampiest set of actions I had ever seen.

I think the Swamp is best loosely defined. You can try to define it specifically, but then you are most likely going to exclude people that should be in the Swamp, and that's not a failure of the term, it's a failure of how it's defined. Defining it more loosely makes more sense. I really don't see the Swamp as being Republican or Democratic, although I'm sure both sides use it that way, and I think the Swamp hurts both sides.
 
Brennan, Clapper, McCabe, Comey, Hillary.....a bunch of people need to be criminally prosecuted. These people tried to frame a president for a fake crime...........because he won and that threatens their swamp; their ability to suck the life out of us, to take money, rights, land, everything. They're truly evil evil evil people.


We're not fooled. It's falling apart like we knew it would.
 
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