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Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever[W:187]

Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Critter7r said:
Not in that article ...

"To be most effective, it is crucial that stimulus be expeditious. In the Great Recession, a portion of the fiscal policy response occurred automatically within preexisting programs. These programs are called "automatic stabilizers"� because they provide immediate stimulus during a recession without requiring action from Congress. For this reason, automatic stabilizers like unemployment insurance (UI), the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly Food Stamps), and Medicaid—in addition to automatic stabilization associated with tax revenue—are particularly valuable."

"The fiscal stimulus in ARRA is widely believed to have reduced the severity of the Great Recession."

"Fact 3: Fiscal stimulus tempered the length and the depth of the Great Recession."

"Fact 5: Many spending programs provided highly effective stimulus during the Great Recession."

"Fact 7: Automatic stabilizers generate substantial, well-timed stimulus."
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Then compare it against other recessions in which immediate spending did not occur and which ones yielded a more robust recovery.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

jonny5 said:
I didnt suggest. What I literally said was Obama took specific actions which added to the debt. Not all of it, though I could argue that his inaction on mandatory spending also contributed (as did congress). Obama signed bills cutting taxes and increasing spending. Exactly what Trump is rightly being criticized for. They are the same.

And if you want to be exact, the deficit for FY2009 when he took over was 600bn. By the end of his first 6 months it was 1.4 trillion. Partly due to his policies.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0109.pdf
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The overall implication of your post was that Obama acted improperly and should have tried to control the deficit. What should he have done? Should he have allowed the Republicans in Congress to let unemployment benefits for the millions unemployed to expire -- just when they needed it most? Or, should he have pushed (which he did) to extend those benefits? Should he have cut SNAP (Food Stamps) and Medicaid applicants?

In my view, Obama acted properly from a moral and economic perspective. When millions are unemployed, the best policy is to undo the economic downturn, so those people reenter the workforce, which has them paying taxes while not requiring unemployment insurance -- both of which are healthy for the economy and government finances.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

OpportunityCost said:
Then compare it against other recessions in which immediate spending did not occur and which ones yielded a more robust recovery.
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Your gigantic pivot notwithstanding, no other recession was as bad as 2008 so a direct comparison wouldn't even be possible.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Hawkeye10 said:
We have been stealing from the kids/grandkids/unborn for a generation, we boomers were never interested in paying our own way, nor do we have any morale problems with conducting generational warfare.

Dont blame that on Trump.
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Whereas, I partially agree, I think the reason Trump will get heat on this is because he conned everyone into believing he would not be like the rest.

Would you feel better if they blamed Obama instead? LOL!
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

great to see the debt going up, just like the stock market .............. up, up, up, up ..................
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

cuban smokes said:
great to see the debt going up, just like the stock market .............. up, up, up, up ..................
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Diggin' the gold top Les Paul dude.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Vern said:
Not that you care about facts but President Obama didn't double the debt. Bush did. Which is quite impressive considering Bush was handed a surplus and President Obama was handed the massive trillion dollar Bush Deficits (yea, they have a name). And as you've been informed, Reagan tripled the debt.
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we see that you don't care about facts.

The debt when obama was president? 10.63 trillion
when he left it was 19.4 trillion.

pretty much as close to double as you can get.

Bush wasn't handed a surplus. It was projected that there would be a surplus
and well the .com bust blew it away.

Bill Clinton Legacy of Myththology and Surplus. - CNN iReport

As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.

In 2008 when Obama took office the defiict was only 484b dollars. that was up from the previous year as bush attempted to spend his way out of the recession.
He grew the deficit to over 1 trillion dollars for 3 years straight.

yes please get some actual facts.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

ludin said:
we see that you don't care about facts.

The debt when obama was president? 10.63 trillion
when he left it was 19.4 trillion.

pretty much as close to double as you can get.
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Meh ... what's $1.6 Trillion between friends, right? (even if those numbers were accurate)

Bush wasn't handed a surplus. It was projected that there would be a surplus
and well the .com bust blew it away.

Bill Clinton Legacy of Myththology and Surplus. - CNN iReport

As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.

In 2008 when Obama took office the defiict was only 484b dollars. that was up from the previous year as bush attempted to spend his way out of the recession.
He grew the deficit to over 1 trillion dollars for 3 years straight.

yes please get some actual facts.
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Obama didn't take office in 2008.

Also ...

"Though the budget deficit for 2008 was a then-record $458.6 billion, the CBO issued a projection in January 2009, just days before Obama took office that the budget deficit would reach $1.2 trillion that year, before the cost of any new stimulus plan or other legislation was taken into account"
 
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Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Critter7r said:
Meh ... what's $1.6 Trillion between friends, right? (even if those numbers were accurate)



Obama didn't take office in 2008.

Also ...

"Though the budget deficit for 2008 was a then-record $458.6 billion, the CBO issued a projection in January 2009, just days before Obama took office that the budget deficit would reach $1.2 trillion that year, before the cost of any new stimulus plan or other legislation was taken into account"
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Correct. The CBO estimate was made on January 7, 2009, two weeks before Obama was sworn in. The est. was $1.2 trillion for 2009.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

OpportunityCost said:
Then compare it against other recessions in which immediate spending did not occur and which ones yielded a more robust recovery.
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Then why on earth did you make such a claim:

OpportunityCost said:
Every economic indicator we had said that spending nothing would have been a better recovery than what we did. Every other recession indicated that. I wonder why they didn't want to spend more money...no, I really don't.
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Only to change your premise to historical comparison... which is odd, given that the last time we experienced a financial crisis (1929), then President Hoover followed the Mellon Doctrine of “Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.” to a disastrous reality. By 1933, the stock market had fallen nearly 90%, GDP declined 24%, and unemployment reached 25%.

Or perhaps you're wanting to compare the 2008 downturn with the post WWI recession of 1919? :lol:
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

ludin said:
Bush wasn't handed a surplus. It was projected that there would be a surplus
and well the .com bust blew it away.
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How on earth did the dotcom bubble blow away the surplus? By the time the 2001 CBO Budget analysis was released, the NASDAQ had declined by more than 50%, and the CBO also projected (in abscence of new legislation) more than $2.5 trillion in surpluses would have occured by 2006. However, new legislation did pass and the federal government went on a substantial spending spree accompanied with tax cuts.

We all know what happened.


As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.
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You are clearly delusional.
fredgraph.png


Everything you stated in that paragraph was a lie.

In 2008 when Obama took office the defiict was only 484b dollars.
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More nonsense. Obama took office in 2009, and the deficit at that time was over a trillion.

yes please get some actual facts.
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Pot meet kettle.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

It is indisputable that the national debt is now $21 trillion and the deficit is growing, in a pretty good economy. The question is what will happen if we have a recession?

All this under a president who complained about the debt under Obama and further "said" he wanted to payoff the debt. Then proceeded to slash taxes and increases spending.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

Critter7r said:
Meh ... what's $1.6 Trillion between friends, right? (even if those numbers were accurate)



Obama didn't take office in 2008.

Also ...

"Though the budget deficit for 2008 was a then-record $458.6 billion, the CBO issued a projection in January 2009, just days before Obama took office that the budget deficit would reach $1.2 trillion that year, before the cost of any new stimulus plan or other legislation was taken into account"
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again everything i posted is supported by the links i posted sorry you don't like them but that doesn't change anything.
 
Re: Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

MTAtech said:
The overall implication of your post was that Obama acted improperly and should have tried to control the deficit. What should he have done? Should he have allowed the Republicans in Congress to let unemployment benefits for the millions unemployed to expire -- just when they needed it most? Or, should he have pushed (which he did) to extend those benefits? Should he have cut SNAP (Food Stamps) and Medicaid applicants?

In my view, Obama acted properly from a moral and economic perspective. When millions are unemployed, the best policy is to undo the economic downturn, so those people reenter the workforce, which has them paying taxes while not requiring unemployment insurance -- both of which are healthy for the economy and government finances.
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Thats debatable, but the only thing I took issue with was your statement that his policies didnt increase the debt.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Under Trump's watch, national debt tops $21 trillion for first time ever

8b18b80f423b160d494715c8724c7fa9.jpg




Another milestone for The Donald and the GOP.

Related: US National Debt Clock
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LOL, yep, Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt and left it at 19.9 trillion, now we have PROJECTIONS that always trump actual data. Keep focusing on the negatives never addressing job creation thus new taxpayers or economic activity which boosts tax revenue. PROJGECTIONS always are more important to a leftist when a Republican is in the WH or controlling Congress. let me know when Trump exceeds the Obama debt, then you will have an issue
 
Conservative said:
LOL, yep, Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt and left it at 19.9 trillion, now we have PROJECTIONS that always trump actual data. Keep focusing on the negatives never addressing job creation thus new taxpayers or economic activity which boosts tax revenue. PROJGECTIONS always are more important to a leftist when a Republican is in the WH or controlling Congress. let me know when Trump exceeds the Obama debt, then you will have an issue
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Id prefer to deal with it now, rather than after another 10 trillion. Trump signed bills which increase spending, which we cant afford. Thats on him, and congress for sending it to him (including Dems who also voted for it).
 
jonny5 said:
Id prefer to deal with it now, rather than after another 10 trillion. Trump signed bills which increase spending, which we cant afford. Thats on him, and congress for sending it to him (including Dems who also voted for it).
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the bolded part says two things jonny. First it says you acknowledge "democrats are not flaming lying hypocrites on debt and deficits". It also says you're not going to hold republicans accountable for being flaming lying hypocrites on debt and deficits. Deficits was one of if not the most important issues to conservatives (and conservative like posters) for 8 years. Putting Hillary in jail and repealing Obamacare were right there in importance. They wont stop lying until you stop listening
 
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