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Trump hasn’t changed the Republican Party. It never cared about the deficit.

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Trump hasn’t changed the Republican Party. It never cared about the deficit.

By Matt O'Brien
February 23, 2018

Trump-AHCA-America-Magazine-600x427.jpg

President Trump and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.)

In 2010, Republicans held up a health-care bill for 9/11 first responders because they thought its $7.4 billion price tag was too much at a time when the deficit was over $1 trillion. In 2011, Republicans threatened to force the government to default on its debt if the Obama administration didn't agree to $1.2 trillion of spending cuts over the next 10 years. And so, of course, in 2018, Republicans are doing more to add to the deficit when unemployment is 4.1 percent and falling than Democrats did in 2009 when it was 8.3 percent and rising. This is at once shocking, but not surprising. Shocking because this is the worst possible policy — Republicans support stimulus now that the economy doesn't need help but didn't when it did — but not surprising because this is who they've been for a long time now. Indeed, Republicans have shown us over and over and over again that they don't actually care about the deficit. They only say they do when they're worried that Democrats are about to redistribute more money from the rich to the poor. As soon as they control the White House, they go back to doing what they have for 40 years now: cutting taxes for the rich and increasing spending on the military, no matter how much red ink piles up.

But again, this isn't just a story about Trump. It's a story about the Republican Party. Whenever a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans propose very specific tax cuts, very vague spending cuts and very unrealistic Medicare vouchers, so that, after a period of self-flagellation for their prior fiscal sins, they can pose as deficit hawks once again. Professional centrists promptly swoon and shower Republicans with awards, like they did with Speaker of the House Paul D. Ryan back in 2011, for their supposed bravery. So what if their plans don't add up. At least they're “starting a conversation.” It's one that lasts until a Republican is president. At that point, the spending cuts they didn't want to name never materialize, and the tax cuts they couldn't wait to make do. But don't worry. It won't be long until Republicans bemoan that “both parties have squandered the public's trust” and need to change course before Washington “buries the next generation under an avalanche of debt.” (That's what Ryan wrote in his 2012 budget). It's coming in either 2021 or 2025. You know, the next time there's a Democratic president to start running against.
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The Deficit, with a capital D, is something the Republicans "care about" only when a Democrat, with a capital D, is in the White House.
 
The left has never cared.

Spending taxpayer money has always been a means to an end for them.
 
Yep, neither the party for a bigger federal government nor the party for a huge federal government care to raise federal taxes enough to cover their increased federal spending.
 
WCH said:
The left has never cared.

Spending taxpayer money has always been a means to an end for them.
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And deficit spending has always been the means to the end for the right.

At least the left is being honest, and asking for tax increases to fund their social programs, whereas the right cuts taxes and spends more anyway, all the while calling themselves deficit hawks.
 
Neither party cares because the electorate doesn't care. The electorate likes getting a dollar's worth of services for only 70 cents.
 
Critter7r said:
And deficit spending has always been the means to the end for the right.

At least the left is being honest, and asking for tax increases to fund their social programs, whereas the right cuts taxes and spends more anyway, all the while calling themselves deficit hawks.
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If you substituted Republicans for right I would have very little argument with this statement .

We can argue all day about labels( right/left) but Government spending is where the rubber hits the road. If you aren't for limiting spending, then you aren't "right".
If you are, you "right' and right. ;)
 
WCH said:
The left has never cared.

Spending taxpayer money has always been a means to an end for them.
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Isn't spending taxpayer money what government does?
The deficit doubled under the last Republican president. Wait until Trump starts trying to buy back approval rating points. Then you'll see some big-time spending taxpayer money.
 
Grand Mal said:
Isn't spending taxpayer money what government does?
The deficit doubled under the last Republican president. Wait until Trump starts trying to buy back approval rating points. Then you'll see some big-time spending taxpayer money.
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Unfortunately both sides do spend. What they spend it on makes the difference.

IMO, we've wasted trillions on programs that don't work instead of infrastructure and the like.
 
WCH said:
Unfortunately both sides do spend. What they spend it on makes the difference.

IMO, we've wasted trillions on programs that don't work instead of infrastructure and the like.
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Programs that don't work- does that include wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
 
WCH said:
Unfortunately both sides do spend. What they spend it on makes the difference.

IMO, we've wasted trillions on programs that don't work instead of infrastructure and the like.
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WCH said:
Partially....WOD, WOP, UN programs, government waste in general, etc.
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As the old saying goes, your federal government is an insurance company with an army, because Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense and interest on the debt is where the vast amounts of spending goes. I don't know what programs that you think "don't work," but Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, work. Expenditures such as the U.S. contribution to the U.N. are decimal places in the federal budget. So, when people talk about cutting spending, they are talking about cutting the big five or they have no idea what they are talking about.
 
MTAtech said:
As the old saying goes, your federal government is an insurance company with an army, because Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense and interest on the debt is where the vast amounts of spending goes. I don't know what programs that you think "don't work," but Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, work. Expenditures such as the U.S. contribution to the U.N. are decimal places in the federal budget. So, when people talk about cutting spending, they are talking about cutting the big five or they have no idea what they are talking about.
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The war on poverty has cost over $22 trillion since it's inception. War on drugs...$ one trillion

Then we come to unfunded liabilities for all the stuff you say, "works"

https://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp
 
WCH said:
The war on poverty has cost over $22 trillion since it's inception. War on drugs...$ one trillion

Then we come to unfunded liabilities for all the stuff you say, "works"

https://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp
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Sorry that site isn't credible. According to historical data total U.S. outlays between 1964 and 2017 were $81.4 trillion. That would mean, if correct, that the war on poverty was a quarter of the budget. The only way that can be true is by including Medicare and Medicaid as part of the "War on Poverty," which is misleading, since many seniors go on Medicaid in nursing homes after they exhaust their life savings. Both of those programs are successful and popular.

Unfunded liabilities aren't "spending." But I do appreciate you trying to exaggerate as much as possible to make your point.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump hasn’t changed the Republican Party. It never cared about the deficit.



The Deficit, with a capital D, is something the Republicans "care about" only when a Democrat, with a capital D, is in the White House.
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If one has been around politics long enough, you would know the deficit or the national debt is something the party out of power uses against the party in power. Both do it. Same for raising the debt ceiling. Here are the votes on that from first G.W. Bush presidency and then the Obama presidency.

BUSH THE 2ND TENURE
Year..Democrats for..Democrats against..Republicans for..Republicans against
2002…….37………………….14………………31………………18
2003……..3…………………...45………………50………………..1
2004……..2……………………46……………....50………………..1
2006……..0……………………44………………52………………...3 *

*It is interest to note in 2006 President Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and made a speech stating it was unpatriotic to do so.
OBAMA PRESIDENCY
2009 ………59…………………0………………..1……………….40
2010…….....60…………………0………………..0……………….40
2012……….52…………………3………………..1………………..45
2013……….55………………….0……………….26……………….18

So one can see that neither party has any core beliefs when it comes to raising the debt ceiling. It all depends on whom or from which party the president is from. Now that Trump is president, I expect the Republicans to be voting to raise it, democrats against it.

As for deficits and the national debt. Republican Reagan tripled the national debt and the Democratic controlled congress was very happy to help him. G.H.W. Bush added 1.5 trillion in four years, again with a happily spending Democratic congress. Change to a Democratic president, Bill Clinton and a Republican congress and add another 1.4 trillion to the debt. The presidency back in Republican hands, G.W. Bush added 4.7 trillion with half of that in his first two years which congress was controlled by the Democrats. Enter Obama, 10 trillion added with the Republicans in control of the House for his last six years and in full control of congress his last two years.

When it comes to the deficit or the national debt, neither party cares about how much they are passing on to our kids, our grand kids and those unborn. As long as they get theirs now, who gives a hoot who has to pay for it later?
 
WCH said:
Unfortunately both sides do spend. What they spend it on makes the difference.

IMO, we've wasted trillions on programs that don't work instead of infrastructure and the like.
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Exactly. Both sides like to spend other people's money, and then some. But they spend on all the wrong things. The liberals have already created a permanent underclass, residents on the Democrat plantation. Republicans are fond of funding useless wars. What about the vanishing middle class? They have needs as well. College is also too expensive for them, too. So is health care. The Democrats think the most pressing issue is why we don't have gender neutral restrooms. Republicans think it matters more to nation-build overseas than to re-build what's falling apart here.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, neither the party for a bigger federal government nor the party for a huge federal government care to raise federal taxes enough to cover their increased federal spending.
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Hard to make a "both sides" argument when the GOP just cut taxes and approved spending increases while they control the WH, House and Senate, and that followed actual tax increases under Obama. So, no, both sides are not equally to blame here.

Clinton left Bush the closest thing to a balanced budget in my lifetime and the GOP voted twice in three years to dramatically cut taxes, then for war spending, and spending increases across the board on non-defense discretionary spending, plus a Medicare drug bill, the biggest entitlement expansion in decades to that point.
 
WCH said:
The left has never cared.

Spending taxpayer money has always been a means to an end for them.
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Spending it is exactly what you do with taxpayer money.
 
eman623 said:
Neither party cares because the electorate doesn't care. The electorate likes getting a dollar's worth of services for only 70 cents.
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Well, that is what red states get to enjoy. Blue states tend to get less for every dollar they put in.
 
Grand Mal said:
Isn't spending taxpayer money what government does?
The deficit doubled under the last Republican president. Wait until Trump starts trying to buy back approval rating points. Then you'll see some big-time spending taxpayer money.
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The deficit doubled under Obama too. Not sure why you left that out.
 
Fletch said:
The deficit doubled under Obama too. Not sure why you left that out.
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Republicans controlled Congress for most of Obama’s presidency. Not sure why you left that out.
 
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