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Why do Republicans support massive spending and debt (then lie about it)?

Conservative said:
yes it is and that is because the Federal govt. used the Excise tax revenue for everything other than infrastructure so now you want higher taxes to do with existing and back taxes didn't do giving the federal govt. more money to waste and taking more money out of your state budgets as well as your own pocket to fund those projects in your own state to your own highways and bridges. Tax increases always affect economic activity and that affects federal and state revenue. The less spendable income you have because of higher taxes the less you spend on growing our GDP or increasing tax revenue through your purchases. You have bought the liberal narrative and ignore the liberal results. Please verify what you are being told before continuing to support failed economic policies
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the point is, if right wing, tax cut economics worked, we would have massive surpluses and no debt.
 
chuckiechan said:
Obama took 10 trillion dollars and got 2% growth. Trump is going to take one trillion and get 4% growth which means more people off social services and into tax paying jobs.

The opinion of Republicans is that a good economy can solve a lot of problems a lousy economy creates, not the least of which is paying down the debt - either as a percent of rising GDP by holding it steady, or actually paying it down.

We have two ways to go. The "Obama way" or the "Trump way". We tried Obama's, now it's the Republican's turn.

Either way we are all in it together, and your racism does not move the conversation forward into useful conversation.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Do note the other tabs for state, population, jobs, etc.
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LOL Like it was under Bush II? There is no reputable economist who believes this tax cut will boost growth to 4%. It is nothing but a gift to those that already have plenty and many Republicans admitted it was their donors demanding it. It has nothing to do with growth. Just once it would be nice to see a Republican Administration REDUCE the deficit instead of raising it. It has never happened.....EVER.

While speaking with the press outside a House GOP conference last Tuesday, Chris Collins let slip why getting the Republican tax plan passed is so important to him.

“My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don’t ever call me again,’” Collins told reporters, according to the Hill.

“An analysis by the Center for Responsive Politics shows that in the 2017-'18 election cycle, slightly more than half of the $627,203 Collins raised came from political action committees representing business interests,” the Buffalo News notes. “Some $108,899 came from health care industry PACs, while $50,500 came from the energy industry and $50,000 came from political committees representing the communications or electronics industries.”
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https://www.salon.com/2017/11/20/5-times-republicans-admitted-they-work-for-rich-donors_partner/
 
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danielpalos said:
the point is, if right wing, tax cut economics worked, we would have massive surpluses and no debt.
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Because tax cuts provide more revenue to the bureaucrats in DC who act like children in a candy store. spending is the problem NOT people keeping more of what they earn
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Like it was under Bush II? There is no reputable economist who believes this tax cut will boost growth to 4%. It is nothing but a gift to those that already have plenty and many Republicans admitted it was their donors demanding it. It has nothing to do with growth. Just once it would be nice to see a Republican Administration REDUCE the deficit instead of raising it. It has never happened.....EVER.

https://www.salon.com/2017/11/20/5-times-republicans-admitted-they-work-for-rich-donors_partner/
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Obama had 8 years to correct what you seem to believe was a tax problem and didn't do it but did create a terrible economy that he left at 1.2% GDP growth along with a 9.3 trillion dollar debt. Already Trump has doubled that Obama average for 2016 and 2 1/2 times the first qtr GDP which of course you and the radical left want to ignore. Amazing how people keeping more of what they earn requires more govt. spending on social engineering and how taking more money out of the states in the form of taxes is supposed to benefit the people of the state. That is liberal logic
 
danielpalos said:
Yes, it is a problem because our infrastructure is crumbling.
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you keep telling me that but never answer the question as to why and what affect higher taxes will have on you, your family's pocketbook. Do you realize infrastructure isn't used by ALL Americans? Why should federal income taxes fund infrastructure when we have excise taxes to do that?
 
Conservative said:
Obama had 8 years to correct what you seem to believe was a tax problem and didn't do it but did create a terrible economy that he left at 1.2% GDP growth along with a 9.3 trillion dollar debt. Already Trump has doubled that Obama average for 2016 and 2 1/2 times the first qtr GDP which of course you and the radical left want to ignore. Amazing how people keeping more of what they earn requires more govt. spending on social engineering and how taking more money out of the states in the form of taxes is supposed to benefit the people of the state. That is liberal logic
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LOL Obama lowered the deficit every year he was in office. Bush took a balanced budget and a surplus and doubled our debt. Trump is on the same path. Obama had better employment growth than Trump for his last 6 years. Trump is enjoying the fruits of Obama's economy and we have yet to see what his own policies will bring. I do know that tax cuts that primarily benefit the wealthy have resulted in disaster for the economy and deficits instead of the growth that was promised. Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is insanity.
 
Conservative said:
you keep telling me that but never answer the question as to why and what affect higher taxes will have on you, your family's pocketbook. Do you realize infrastructure isn't used by ALL Americans? Why should federal income taxes fund infrastructure when we have excise taxes to do that?
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Infrastructure is what makes our economy more competitive, globally.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Obama lowered the deficit every year he was in office. Bush took a balanced budget and a surplus and doubled our debt. Trump is on the same path. Obama had better employment growth than Trump for his last 6 years. Trump is enjoying the fruits of Obama's economy and we have yet to see what his own policies will bring. I do know that tax cuts that primarily benefit the wealthy have resulted in disaster for the economy and deficits instead of the growth that was promised. Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is insanity.
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Did you ever take an accounting class or have any understanding of finance? Can you explain to me how lowering the deficit and increasing the debt by 9.3 trillion is a good thing? 9.3 TRILLION is more than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined but he lowered the deficit? Do we pay debt service on the debt or the deficit??

Obama had better employment data than Trump? Is it Trump's responsibility to compete against himself or Obama. Does this show better employment numbers for Obama?

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS12000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Employment Level
Labor force status: Employed
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Years: 2008 to 2018

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 146378 146156 146086 146132 145908 145737 145532 145203 145076 144802 144100 143369

2016 150576 151005 151229 150978 151048 151164 151484 151687 151815 151939 152126 152233
2017 152076 152511 153064 153161 152892 153250 153511 153471 154324 153846 153917 154021
2018 154430
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Looks to me like Obama's last month in office was 152 million employed and January of 2018 was 2.4 million more. Is that better employment than Trump? want me to post part time employment vs Trump? Didn't think so, how about U-6, Trump 8.1% Obama averaged over 13.1% and never got back to pre recession levels.

We have been over and over this and for some reason it still doesn't resonate with you. I am sure you mean well but what is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? How has liberalism benefited you and your family and what exactly has Trump done to hurt you, your family, or the country causing such hatred?

Same old argument on your part over and over again, tax cuts for the rich? Maybe this will explain it to you in terms you can understand because I sure cannot get through to you

https://www.youtube.com/embed/BomQxCG5VG4?rel=0&autoplay=1
 
danielpalos said:
Infrastructure is what makes our economy more competitive, globally.
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Again you keep dodging the question, why?? Again you want to focus on tax revenue totally ignoring that it is EXCISE taxes that fund infrastructure and it is EXCISE tax revenue that has been misused by the Federal Govt bureaucrats but that seems to be ok for you

What is it about liberals that prevents them from admitting when wrong??
 
Conservative said:
Did you ever take an accounting class or have any understanding of finance? Can you explain to me how lowering the deficit and increasing the debt by 9.3 trillion is a good thing? 9.3 TRILLION is more than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined but he lowered the deficit? Do we pay debt service on the debt or the deficit??

Obama had better employment data than Trump? Is it Trump's responsibility to compete against himself or Obama. Does this show better employment numbers for Obama?




Looks to me like Obama's last month in office was 152 million employed and January of 2018 was 2.4 million more. Is that better employment than Trump? want me to post part time employment vs Trump? Didn't think so, how about U-6, Trump 8.1% Obama averaged over 13.1% and never got back to pre recession levels.

We have been over and over this and for some reason it still doesn't resonate with you. I am sure you mean well but what is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? How has liberalism benefited you and your family and what exactly has Trump done to hurt you, your family, or the country causing such hatred?

Same old argument on your part over and over again, tax cuts for the rich? Maybe this will explain it to you in terms you can understand because I sure cannot get through to you

https://www.youtube.com/embed/BomQxCG5VG4?rel=0&autoplay=1
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The same old story that tax cuts for he wealthy are going to make us all rich just does not cut it anymore. How dumb do you think we are? Why do you support higher deficits now if Obama's were so bad? It really make you seem highly partisan to say the least.
 
Conservative said:
Again you keep dodging the question, why?? Again you want to focus on tax revenue totally ignoring that it is EXCISE taxes that fund infrastructure and it is EXCISE tax revenue that has been misused by the Federal Govt bureaucrats but that seems to be ok for you

What is it about liberals that prevents them from admitting when wrong??
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What question? It was the right wing that cut taxes, and still hasn't funded Government.

Infrastructure is spending is simply more productive than tax cut spending.
 
iguanaman said:
The same old story that tax cuts for he wealthy are going to make us all rich just does not cut it anymore. How dumb do you think we are? Why do you support higher deficits now if Obama's were so bad? It really make you seem highly partisan to say the least.
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So still waiting for an answer how does someone else keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country? did you watch the beer video? Get it yet, people who don't pay any FIT should get what in a tax cut??

Who said I supported higher deficits? why are you using projections and not actual data? Why is it you never verify the accuracy of those predictions after they are made? Is it your belief that people keeping more of what they earn requires more govt. spending to support? Can you explain how taking more dollars out of the state because of higher federal dollars helps solve state problems?? So many question and you keep running never answering
 
danielpalos said:
What question? It was the right wing that cut taxes, and still hasn't funded Government.

Infrastructure is spending is simply more productive than tax cut spending.
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Funded the govt? what govt.? state, local, federal? do you know the true role of the federal govt? how old are you? So tell me what accounting class teaches you that tax cuts or people keeping more of what they earn is an expense and has to be FUNDED? Just like a liberal, federal spending good regardless of the waste, fraud and abuse as it makes you feel better. Taking a dollar out of the state is one less dollar for the state to spend on their own programs and requirements. Tell how it makes any sense to send dollars to the federal bureaucrats in DC to get pennies back rather than letting the states take that dollar and focus on local problems?
 
Conservative said:
What you have proven is that you are a poorly informed partisan liberal hack . There is no way Bush left Obama wirh a trillion dollar deficit as he had no spending authority after March 1, 2009, was operating on CR' s on 2008 numbers and TARP was in that deficit for 2009 when Bush left office and TARP was repaid under Obama but rather than lower the deficit he re spent the money knowing hacks like you would ignore no budget and spending TARP blaming Bush. That is being dishonest Vern

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
 
Vern said:
Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
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Here are the facts, Vern, there was NO Bush budget for fiscal year 2009 but Obama signed the budget in March 2009 thus spending for half the year at a higher level than the continuing resolutions that Bush spent under. TARP was included in that so called deficit so pretty simple question, Vern, was TARP repaid? If so where is that in the reduction in the deficit? Your dishonesty is the issue and always will be. Here is the data, the official data that you want to ignore

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
 
Conservative said:
So still waiting for an answer how does someone else keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country? did you watch the beer video? Get it yet, people who don't pay any FIT should get what in a tax cut??

Who said I supported higher deficits? why are you using projections and not actual data? Why is it you never verify the accuracy of those predictions after they are made? Is it your belief that people keeping more of what they earn requires more govt. spending to support? Can you explain how taking more dollars out of the state because of higher federal dollars helps solve state problems?? So many question and you keep running never answering
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If you are a Republican, not supporting higher deficits is disingenuous. Remember that not one single Republican President has left office with lower deficits than when he came in. Let that sink in and then maybe you will want to revise your answer. Somehow you think you can despise debt and yet support tax cuts that reduce Govt. revenue even when it is just another 100K a year for billionaires. Where do you think that revenue is going to come from? Out of thin air? Yes it hurts all of us when Govt. revenue is slashed to give more money to those that already have more than they can use. It increases income disparity, starves the Govt. for revenue and leaves us with even less because interest on the debt increases.
 
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Conservative said:
Here are the facts, Vern, there was NO Bush budget for fiscal year 2009 but Obama signed the budget in March 2009 thus spending for half the year at a higher level than the continuing resolutions that Bush spent under. TARP was included in that so called deficit so pretty simple question, Vern, was TARP repaid? If so where is that in the reduction in the deficit? Your dishonesty is the issue and always will be. Here is the data, the official data that you want to ignore

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
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Even CATO agrees that Bush is responsible for most of the 2009 deficit. He was a typical GOP big spender who cut taxes and increased spending and left Obama with a $trillion defict when his economy tanked big time. Remember Cheney's words....they are what all the GOP live by. "Reagan proved deficits don't matter".

200911_blog_mitchell2.jpg
 
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iguanaman said:
If you are a Republican, not supporting higher deficits is disingenuous. Remember that not one single Republican President has left office with lower deficits than when he came in. Let that sink in and then maybe you will want to revise your answer. Somehow you think you can despise debt and yet support tax cuts that reduce Govt. revenue even when it is just another 100K a year for billionaires. Where do you think that revenue is going to come from? Out of thin air? Yes it hurts all of us when Govt. revenue is slashed to give more money to those that already have more than they can use. It increases income disparity, starves the Govt. for revenue and leaves us with even less because interest on the debt increases.
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You have yet to prove there are higher deficits with Trump, 2017 for example Obama 360 billion from October to February and Trump 304 billion from February to Sept. 30. Is that higher or lower than Obama?

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

What part of deficits vs debt don't you understand? Rather frustrating to have to explain it over and over again, reducing the deficit and adding 9.3 trillion to the debt is a disaster

Deficit reductions happened when the GOP took Congress but that reality escapes you as well, Obama's trillion dollar deficits in 09-12 obviously didn't happen in your world

Keep saying the same thing about tax cuts over and over again as you divert from the questions raised, how does someone else keeping more of their OWN money hurt you, your family, or the country? Please show us where Reagan and Bush's tax cuts reduced Federal Income Tax revenue since those were the taxes cut??

No it doesn't hurt you, your family, or the country as it requires less of that so called federal social engineering when people have more spendable income as local and state charitable giving increases.

Starving the govt. seems to bother you, how does that affect you, your family or the country?
 
markjs said:
Interesting read by Thom Hartmann and right on the money.



So in one year, orange moron and the Republican't party baloon the debt more than Obama's entire presidency and we hear....

*crickets*

I guess as long as it's a white guy in charge, 'murica is great again huh? Idiots...
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Because they are federal politicians and should be cleaned out regularly. By force or by vote. They are all corrupt **** bags. So far the only republican federal I ACTUALLY like is Rand Paul.
 
iguanaman said:
Even CATO agrees that Bush is responsible for most of the 2009 deficit. He was a typical GOP big spender who cut taxes and increased spending and left Obama with a $trillion defict when his economy tanked big time. Remember Cheney's words....they are what all the GOP live by. "Reagan proved deficits don't matter".

200911_blog_mitchell2.jpg
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Can you tell us all how Bush is responsible for the debt when he didn't have spending authority after March 2009 and there was no Bush budget? Do yo uknow what a Continuing resolution is and why is it that Treasury data isn't of interest to you? There is so much you apparently don't understand which is what the left does to people like you, manipulates you but the question is why do you believe the lies but continue to call the official data lies??

How much money was spent on TARP? When was it spent and was it repaid? Was that money in the 2009 deficit??
 
Conservative said:
Funded the govt? what govt.? state, local, federal? do you know the true role of the federal govt? how old are you? So tell me what accounting class teaches you that tax cuts or people keeping more of what they earn is an expense and has to be FUNDED? Just like a liberal, federal spending good regardless of the waste, fraud and abuse as it makes you feel better. Taking a dollar out of the state is one less dollar for the state to spend on their own programs and requirements. Tell how it makes any sense to send dollars to the federal bureaucrats in DC to get pennies back rather than letting the states take that dollar and focus on local problems?
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Because that is not what happens.

Let's raise State minimum wages to fifteen dollars an hour, so Labor can help pay for Infrastructure.
 
danielpalos said:
Because that is not what happens.

Let's raise State minimum wages to fifteen dollars an hour, so Labor can help pay for Infrastructure.
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Give a fricken break, who pays those wages, the employer? You really are naïve, gullible and poorly informed, Sounds exactly like the type education training someone receives in California
 
Conservative said:
Give a fricken break, who pays those wages, the employer? You really are naïve, gullible and poorly informed, Sounds exactly like the type education training someone receives in California
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so what. Employers have to pay wages, anyway. Some on the hard core left, advocate for eliminating low wage jobs through a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

We don't need Capitalists who can Only make it on cheap labor.
 
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