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Why do Republicans support massive spending and debt (then lie about it)?

Vern said:
chuck, if you must deflect from your narrative and ignore the facts I post then you know your narrative is wrong. Special "words", ignoring the facts and deflection, why do you obediently do it? what is it about conservatism that makes you think its okay to not be honest and intelligent?

anyhoo, all the special words in the world, ignoring facts and deflection don’t change the fact that republicans are flaming lying hypocrites concerning deficits. Hey, you still have time to be the first conservative to address flaming lying hypocrisy of conservatives if you’re interested.
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Because you are not only wrong you are not willing to even consider the larger picture or other views. No one has a monopoly of what is right for the economy.

The “Trump deficit” is a front loaded stimulus designed to get businesses to do better and expand their workforce. Hiring takes people off “social expenses” and turns them into tax payers and that creates spenders that are paid from private sector productivity, rather than from taxpayers. It’s a “win-win”. Oops. There I go again!

You cant seem to get your head around that fact. You argue as if job creation is “spin”. So what is the point of trying to convince you respectfully that a good economy is actually a good think?

Re: “special words” are simply those you don’t want to hear. I don’t care to hear your “special words” either: like: “.... Republicans are flaming, lying, hypocrites concerning deficits”. It’s kind of hard to respectfully dialogue around that.
 
chuckiechan said:
Because you are not only wrong you are not willing to even consider the larger picture or other views. No one has a monopoly of what is right for the economy.
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Chuck, we're not discussing your deluded opinion of whats "right for the economy". We were discussing you having to be very very careful how to phrase your obedient criticism of President Obama. I know your brain tricks you into thinking you've really zinged me a good one but sadly you've only embarrassed yourself again. Go back and read our posts again. Read them slowly. Very very slowly. You were obediently whining about how much President Obama added to the deficit but had to use the word "took."

The “Trump deficit” is a front loaded stimulus designed to get businesses to do better and expand their workforce. Hiring takes people off “social expenses” and turns them into tax payers and that creates spenders that are paid from private sector productivity, rather than from taxpayers. It’s a “win-win”. Oops. There I go again!
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Yes, there you go again posting whatever delusion is in your head and not addressing my posts. Trumps "deficit" is just a deficit. You putting quote marks around it doenst make you and every conservative any less a flaming hypocrite.

You cant seem to get your head around that fact. You argue as if job creation is “spin”. So what is the point of trying to convince you respectfully that a good economy is actually a good think?
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this is just blatant dishonesty. when it comes time for a conservative to choose narrative or integrity you choose narrative. Please cut and paste the part of my posts that you think I've said or implied "a good economy is not a good thing."

Re: “special words” are simply those you don’t want to hear. I don’t care to hear your “special words” either: like: “.... Republicans are flaming, lying, hypocrites concerning deficits”. It’s kind of hard to respectfully dialogue around that.
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"Obama took 10 trillion dollars" are special words. "Republicans are flaming lying hypocrites concerning deficits" is a fact. Sadly, its just another one of those facts the conservative brain simply cant process so it thinks whining at magically changes it. And don't forget, cut and paste the part of my posts that you think I've said or implied "a good economy is not a good thing" in case you've already "flushed" that out of your brain.
 
Conservative said:
So Vern more dishonesty, please show me the massive deficits that Bush handed Obama when Obama took office in January 2009 by posting the actual Bush signed and approved Budget for fiscal year 2009. You keep making this crap up over and over again showing again just what a partisan you truly are and how you want to manipulate and brainwash others. Only in the liberal world is Bush responsible for deficits when Obama had the spending authority for most of 2009 and did so knowing that he had people like you in his hip pocket to blame Bush

Now either show us the Bush budget and spending authority for 2009 or STFU
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Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
 
Vern said:
Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
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Noticed that you never provided the 2009 Bush signed and approved budget because you cannot. Bush spending authority expired on March 2009 and that authority was using Continuing resolutions from 2008 leaving the country with a 11 trillion dollar deficit INCLUDING 450 BILLION OF TARP that was repaid in 2009 AFTER Bush left office. There was no Bush trillion dollar deficit in 2009 and you are a walking example of how intellectually dishonest the left is and in particular YOU
 
Conservative said:
Noticed that you never provided the 2009 Bush signed and approved budget because you cannot. Bush spending authority expired on March 2009 and that authority was using Continuing resolutions from 2008 leaving the country with a 11 trillion dollar deficit INCLUDING 450 BILLION OF TARP that was repaid in 2009 AFTER Bush left office. There was no Bush trillion dollar deficit in 2009 and you are a walking example of how intellectually dishonest the left is and in particular YOU
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Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
 
Vern said:
Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
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And still you cannot post the Bush budget signed and approved by Congress for 2009 for without a budget Bush had no spending authority to create the deficits you are blaming on him. Just goes to show how poorly informed and how partisan you are as no discussion in the past offered that budget but did offer your same lies over and over again
 
Conservative said:
And still you cannot post the Bush budget signed and approved by Congress for 2009 for without a budget Bush had no spending authority to create the deficits you are blaming on him. Just goes to show how poorly informed and how partisan you are as no discussion in the past offered that budget but did offer your same lies over and over again
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Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
 
Vern said:
Con, you simply prove your dishonesty again. We've had this discussion numerous times. When presented with the facts that prove you are wrong (at best) you've simply and cowardly go off on your usual deflections. If you hadn't been here since 2009 (or not from texas) I would have just assumed you were a Russian troll. But you have been here since 2009 (and from texas).
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Copying and pasting the same thing over and over again doesn't change the fact that there WAS NO BUSH BUDGET APPROVED FOR 2009 thus he didn't have the spending authority to create the deficits you blame him for so once again you are a proven partisan liberal hack posting lies
 
Because their constituency is made up largely of idiots. That and greedy people who don't care if Republicans lie, as long as they cash in on it
 
radcen said:
Q: Why do Republicans support massive spending and debt (then lie about it)?

A: Because enough people are gullible enough to fall for it to form a large enough base.
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Republicans and Trump want to get things done, however, they need Democrat votes to do this. So far the Democrats are 0% helpful and all tend to vote lock step, against anything Trump. The entire Democrat party could be replaced by trained horses during vote time; one tap of the hoof for nay. To break the lock step, the right needs to cater to some of the waste and pork barrel of certain Democrats. If the Republicans win the mid terms and gain a majority, they will no longer need the Democrats. Proposals will be more streamlined.

For example, with ObamaCare, the costs have gone up. Trump would like to change many things to make it more cost effective. The Democrats will not vote on any change. The entire Democrat party of trained horses vote lock step. They prefer nothing change, since fixing ObamaCare, will make them look bad, for messing up in the first place.

If Trump holds his position, nothing will happen, and people will suffer. Trump would prefer comprehensive change, but the human suffering weighs on him, and means something, also. This result is Trump knows he will need the votes of certain high maintenance Democrats, who will vote with him, if there is enough waste for them to feel comfortable. A pig need his mud hole to feel good. Again, if the Republican win the midterms, the solutions will be different and more effective. But you cannot bank on that, and things need to get done, now. The result is excessive costs and debt but the wagon is moving in the right direction for phase 2.
 
wellwisher said:
Republicans and Trump want to get things done, however, they need Democrat votes to do this. So far the Democrats are 0% helpful and all tend to vote lock step, against anything Trump. The entire Democrat party could be replaced by trained horses during vote time; one tap of the hoof for nay. To break the lock step, the right needs to cater to some of the waste and pork barrel of certain Democrats. If the Republicans win the mid terms and gain a majority, they will no longer need the Democrats. Proposals will be more streamlined.

For example, with ObamaCare, the costs have gone up. Trump would like to change many things to make it more cost effective. The Democrats will not vote on any change. The entire Democrat party of trained horses vote lock step. They prefer nothing change, since fixing ObamaCare, will make them look bad, for messing up in the first place.

If Trump holds his position, nothing will happen, and people will suffer. Trump would prefer comprehensive change, but the human suffering weighs on him, and means something, also. This result is Trump knows he will need the votes of certain high maintenance Democrats, who will vote with him, if there is enough waste for them to feel comfortable. A pig need his mud hole to feel good. Again, if the Republican win the midterms, the solutions will be different and more effective. But you cannot bank on that, and things need to get done, now. The result is excessive costs and debt but the wagon is moving in the right direction for phase 2.
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lol. The right wing cut taxes before funding government.
 
danielpalos said:
lol. The right wing cut taxes before funding government.
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Trump's budget proposal was less than what Obama submitted thus is the First President in modern history to propose less spending than the predecessor. Cutting taxes puts money into the hands of the people thus control away from the liberal bureaucrats in DC making the liberal leadership hysterical. More money in the hands of the consumer in the states gives those people and the states more say in solving their own problems making the term neighbor helping neighbor more meaningful. Rather than sending dollars to DC bureaucrats that money is now kept in the states. Seems like a simple concept to understand except by the left who continue to ignore that reality
 
Conservative said:
Copying and pasting the same thing over and over again doesn't change the fact that there WAS NO BUSH BUDGET APPROVED FOR 2009 thus he didn't have the spending authority to create the deficits you blame him for so once again you are a proven partisan liberal hack posting lies
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It addresses your dishonesty. funny how you couldn't figure that out.
 
Vern said:
It addresses your dishonesty. funny how you couldn't figure that out.
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What you have proven is that you are a poorly informed partisan liberal hack . There is no way Bush left Obama wirh a trillion dollar deficit as he had no spending authority after March 1, 2009, was operating on CR' s on 2008 numbers and TARP was in that deficit for 2009 when Bush left office and TARP was repaid under Obama but rather than lower the deficit he re spent the money knowing hacks like you would ignore no budget and spending TARP blaming Bush. That is being dishonest Vern

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Vern said:
It addresses your dishonesty. funny how you couldn't figure that out.
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No, Vern, it doesn't but it does show that you are a dishonest poorly informed liberal hack. There was no Bush budget for 2009 thus no spending authority outside of the continuing resolutions from October 1 to March 31, 2009 when Bush's spending authority ran out. Included in the so called Bush deficit was the 450 billion TARP spending which was repaid but Obama didn't pay down the deficit knowing that people like you would blame Bush. So Vern, your dishonesty is on full display as is your ignorance of civics, continuing resolutions, and the TARP bill passed in October 2009
 
Conservative said:
Trump's budget proposal was less than what Obama submitted thus is the First President in modern history to propose less spending than the predecessor. Cutting taxes puts money into the hands of the people thus control away from the liberal bureaucrats in DC making the liberal leadership hysterical. More money in the hands of the consumer in the states gives those people and the states more say in solving their own problems making the term neighbor helping neighbor more meaningful. Rather than sending dollars to DC bureaucrats that money is now kept in the states. Seems like a simple concept to understand except by the left who continue to ignore that reality
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more debt means less money for infrastructure; especially, after a tax cut that merely helped the rich get richer, not solve simple poverty or upgrade our infrastructure.
 
danielpalos said:
more debt means less money for infrastructure; especially, after a tax cut that merely helped the rich get richer, not solve simple poverty or upgrade our infrastructure.
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More debt? Where is your proof that there is more debt? What is the economic activity that is going to be generated and how much social engineering is required when people are allowed to keep more of what they earn? Can you explain why Reagan and Bush but cut Federal Income Taxes and Federal Income tax revenue grew?

Do you know what taxes fund infrastructure and how that money has been used in the past? Do you know what funds SS and Medicare and how that money has been used? Do you know what a unified budget is along with how IOU's are funded?

You and others show how easy it is to fool far too many people who buy rhetoric and never research it
 
Conservative said:
More debt? Where is your proof that there is more debt? What is the economic activity that is going to be generated and how much social engineering is required when people are allowed to keep more of what they earn? Can you explain why Reagan and Bush but cut Federal Income Taxes and Federal Income tax revenue grew?

Do you know what taxes fund infrastructure and how that money has been used in the past? Do you know what funds SS and Medicare and how that money has been used? Do you know what a unified budget is along with how IOU's are funded?

You and others show how easy it is to fool far too many people who buy rhetoric and never research it
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this is why nobody takes the right wing seriously when they claim to be serious about fiscal responsibility:

Trump's SOTU: An Even Bigger Budget Deficit And National Debt Are On The Way

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stanco...nd-national-debt-are-on-the-way/#5a84989050da
 
chuckiechan said:
Obama took 10 trillion dollars and got 2% growth. Trump is going to take one trillion and get 4% growth which means more people off social services and into tax paying jobs.

The opinion of Republicans is that a good economy can solve a lot of problems a lousy economy creates, not the least of which is paying down the debt - either as a percent of rising GDP by holding it steady, or actually paying it down.

We have two ways to go. The "Obama way" or the "Trump way". We tried Obama's, now it's the Republican's turn.

Either way we are all in it together, and your racism does not move the conversation forward into useful conversation.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Do note the other tabs for state, population, jobs, etc.
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The $10T you're referring to is how much the debt grew due to the deficits during Obama's term - including the interest on the debt already accrued before he took office. What you're ignoring - or, more likely, hoping we don't remember - is that along the way, Obama DID cut the deficit in half, which means that the debt grew much slower than it would have otherwise. Trump, on the other hand, has blown up the deficit...which means the debt will grow significantly faster than it did under Obama.

Every single Democratic president since the Depression first took office with an economic deficit...and only FDR and Carter left office with a bigger deficit (and FDR had this little thing called "World War II" going on - you may have heard of it). ALL other Democratic presidents left office with either a SMALLER deficit (or with a budget surplus) than when they first took office.

How many Republican presidents since the Depression had a budget surplus, or left office with a smaller deficit than when they first took office?

None. Not a single one. And remember, you canNOT address the federal debt without FIRST addressing the federal deficit.

In other words, for almost ninety years, the documented history shows that Democratic presidents have been demonstrably more careful with our taxpayer dollars than have Republican presidents...and Trump has shown that he is going to continue that trend.
 
danielpalos said:
this is why nobody takes the right wing seriously when they claim to be serious about fiscal responsibility:

Trump's SOTU: An Even Bigger Budget Deficit And National Debt Are On The Way

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stanco...nd-national-debt-are-on-the-way/#5a84989050da
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More projections that violate history, how do you explain Reagan and Bush giving Federal Income tax cuts and GROWING FEDERAL INCOME TAX REVENUE??? Reagan over 60% with three years of tax cuts and Bush over 32%, that is reality, no projections and total Treasury data!! this is why the left has no credibility always buying projections and then never verifying if those projections were true. Cutting FIT taxes generating more FIT revenue doesn't create deficits
 
Conservative said:
More projections that violate history, how do you explain Reagan and Bush giving Federal Income tax cuts and GROWING FEDERAL INCOME TAX REVENUE??? Reagan over 60% with three years of tax cuts and Bush over 32%, that is reality, no projections and total Treasury data!! this is why the left has no credibility always buying projections and then never verifying if those projections were true. Cutting FIT taxes generating more FIT revenue doesn't create deficits
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Our Infrastructure is crumbling. We should have the finest Infrastructure, tax cuts can buy, in the entire world, by now.
 
X Factor said:
I don't doubt that. Some lefties are the biggest babies out there when something doesn't go their way. We've seen that demonstrated repeatedly since the last election. It's not just elections either, it's jury verdicts. Don't like the verdict in a criminal case, better get out there and **** some **** up. Conversely, an illegal immigrant in California gets acquitted of murder, and what do you know? Nothing happens.
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Armed revolt instigated by the left? Okla City, Waco, etc., were started by leftists? There is enough blame to go around across the political spectrum.

And the acquittal in California was an obvious case of the DA overcharging. Why object when the verdict was understandable? I assume your other reference was to the Rodney King riots... Inexcusable but understandable, given the absurd verdict.
 
danielpalos said:
Our Infrastructure is crumbling. We should have the finest Infrastructure, tax cuts can buy, in the entire world, by now.
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yes it is and that is because the Federal govt. used the Excise tax revenue for everything other than infrastructure so now you want higher taxes to do with existing and back taxes didn't do giving the federal govt. more money to waste and taking more money out of your state budgets as well as your own pocket to fund those projects in your own state to your own highways and bridges. Tax increases always affect economic activity and that affects federal and state revenue. The less spendable income you have because of higher taxes the less you spend on growing our GDP or increasing tax revenue through your purchases. You have bought the liberal narrative and ignore the liberal results. Please verify what you are being told before continuing to support failed economic policies
 
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