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538: The GOP Tax Cuts Are Even More Unpopular Than Past Tax Hikes

TurtleDude said:
lots on the left are wealth vandals. they think they should be rich because "they are smarter" than conservative wealthy folks" but when they realize they aren't going to be rich, they want the government to take more and more from those who are
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From one of my favorite books. Soul of fire by terry goodkind.

Profit' is a dirty word only to the leeches of the world. They want it seen as evil, so they can more easily snatch what they did not earn."
 
ludin said:
They kicked and howled over the Reagan tax reforms but the end result is that everyone was better off.
Median income rose 4K dollars. People from lower quintiles jumped two or three.

Amazing what happens when more people have more money in their pockets. Not to mention the government brought in more money because of it.
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Remind me again what Ronald Reagan did to the national debt?
 
ludin said:
They kicked and howled over the Reagan tax reforms but the end result is that everyone was better off.
Median income rose 4K dollars. People from lower quintiles jumped two or three.

Amazing what happens when more people have more money in their pockets. Not to mention the government brought in more money because of it.
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And the cost of living went up 5 times faster than the medium income. It shift the wealth from them middle class to the ultra rich.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well while the OP I believe seriously distorts what the tax bill is and will do, I remember how unpopular the Reagan tax reform was as the Democrats were characterizing that in the same way back then. It had about 15% public approval. But, once it was ushered in, we enjoyed the longest period of sustained growth in a peacetime economy that this nation had ever seen.

I am pretty sure the GOP in Congress know what they are doing and anticipate much the same kind of results. It always takes a few months for any tax reform to kick in with whatever affect it will have on the economy so we will see.
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Oh is that why Reagan had to raise taxes over and over again. As did bush senior.

He is the that realized trickle down is a scam that caused his recession and lost him the presidency. Remember the phrase "VOODOO ECONOMICS"?
 
The GOP Congress has no idea what these tax-cuts will do and, frankly, they don't care. They are doing it because their rich donors demanded it. As such, they then produce lies to justify what they already decided they wanted to do.
 
MTAtech said:
[h=1]The GOP Tax Cuts Are Even More Unpopular Than Past Tax Hikes[/h]


Heavens. I can't understand why most polled would dislike a bill that lowers taxes on the rich, raises middle class taxes and adds to the debt, without significant economic growth.
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Right. Of those polled, how many have actually read the bill? I will bet that number is zero. So tell me, why should I care what people think about something they know nothing about?
 
Fletch said:
Right. Of those polled, how many have actually read the bill? I will bet that number is zero. So tell me, why should I care what people think about something they know nothing about?
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I’ve never read the bill either but I know what is in it. That’s because there have been ample news reports from those that analyzed the bill.
 
Phys251 said:
Remind me again what Ronald Reagan did to the national debt?
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Remind me again who was in charge of congress? Congress sets the budget for the year.
Ol yea it was liberals in charge of congress.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well while the OP I believe seriously distorts what the tax bill is and will do, I remember how unpopular the Reagan tax reform was as the Democrats were characterizing that in the same way back then. It had about 15% public approval. But, once it was ushered in, we enjoyed the longest period of sustained growth in a peacetime economy that this nation had ever seen.
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Growth that has benefited a few, while the vast majority have seen their real wages basically stay level.
 
RAMOSS said:
And the cost of living went up 5 times faster than the medium income. It shift the wealth from them middle class to the ultra rich.
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No really. Nothing was shifted anywhere.
The 80s started the tech boom.

People who invested in that boom got paid.
I still remember in the early 90s you could buy apple stock for 2-5 dollars a share.
I should have done it. It is now 172 dollars a share. Hell in 1998 you could buy it for 87 cents.
We were laughing at it because it was so bad.


You need to get away from this thing that because someone pays 1000 less in taxes that I came from someone else because it doesn't work like that.

The only way for what you said to be true is if those rich people were owed more money than they paid in.
If someone is paying 1m dollars in taxes and the next year they pay 800k that 200k didn't come from some poor slob on the street.

Cost of living increased due to the increase in jobs and money for everyone just like it should do.
Better wages and people making more money will increase the cost of living. This is just a fact.
 
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The reason they might be "unpopular" is the greater number of people on some sort of government assistance than before.

ThanKs Obama.
 
RAMOSS said:
I noticed the increase was the best in the Clinton years. Gosh, imagine that.
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.com boom which turned out to be a bust. If you where a programmer you were making 100k a year no problem.
After the crash IT wages went to crap.
 
MTAtech said:
[h=1]The GOP Tax Cuts Are Even More Unpopular Than Past Tax Hikes[/h]


Heavens. I can't understand why most polled would dislike a bill that lowers taxes on the rich, raises middle class taxes and adds to the debt, without significant economic growth.
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You dont understand because you didnt check the sample. Those polled were largely Democrat with a far outsized independant (which usually means liberal) contingent. No surprise then that people who oppose Republicans on principle would be against a Republican proposal. Hell, a good 25% answered that they didnt even know about the tax plan.

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 23%
Democrat 31
Independent 38
Other/DK/NA 8
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https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us11152017_demos_ucp261.pdf/

As always, polls are bull****. The only one that matters is the one in 2016 where the majority of electors voted in Republicans to do exactly what theyre doing. Thats real support from millions of real americans, not a few thousand who bothered to answer the phone.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Growth that has benefited a few, while the vast majority have seen their real wages basically stay level.
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It benefited most of us. We all saw more take home pay in our paychecks. Remember that President Reagan inherited the worst economy we had seen to that point since the great depression. Double digit interest rates. Double digit inflation. Stagnant growth. High unemployment. He did sign a tax increase his first year in office that only worsened things. The tax cuts of 1983, however, boosted the economy to the point that we all started seeing improvement. And the reform package of 1986 kept it going.
 
ludin said:
Remind me again who was in charge of congress? Congress sets the budget for the year.
Ol yea it was liberals in charge of congress.
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So Reagan didn't sign the budgets into law?
 
Phys251 said:
So Reagan didn't sign the budgets into law?
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SO liberals didn't create the budgets? amazing you can't accept this fact.
also they had a basically 59 vote majority.
 
ludin said:
SO liberals didn't create the budgets? amazing you can't accept this fact.
also they had a basically 59 vote majority.
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Reagan signed the budget into law. You do know how laws are created, right? Or do you need a reminder?
 
Phys251 said:
Reagan signed the budget into law. You do know how laws are created, right? Or do you need a reminder?
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evidently you don't the president doesn't create law congress does. lol
 
ludin said:
evidently you don't the president doesn't create law congress does. lol
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You are choosing to leave out a big step in the process. That or you don't know what it is. So let me help you:

 
AlbqOwl said:
It benefited most of us. We all saw more take home pay in our paychecks. Remember that President Reagan inherited the worst economy we had seen to that point since the great depression. Double digit interest rates. Double digit inflation. Stagnant growth. High unemployment. He did sign a tax increase his first year in office that only worsened things. The tax cuts of 1983, however, boosted the economy to the point that we all started seeing improvement. And the reform package of 1986 kept it going.
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The mediation of those things did more to turn around the economy than the tax cuts.
 
TurtleDude said:
Krugman's a whore who traded being serious objective academic to a propagandist for the welfare socialist state.
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Welfare socialist state are you ****ing kidding? My state just gave three billion dollars to a foreign company. You could give ever citizen of the state 600,000.00 for that.

That is socialist welfare!
Oh did I mention they also made all building costs tax exempt?
 
AlbqOwl said:
It benefited most of us. We all saw more take home pay in our paychecks. Remember that President Reagan inherited the worst economy we had seen to that point since the great depression. Double digit interest rates. Double digit inflation. Stagnant growth. High unemployment. He did sign a tax increase his first year in office that only worsened things. The tax cuts of 1983, however, boosted the economy to the point that we all started seeing improvement. And the reform package of 1986 kept it going.
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There were double digit interest rates because the Fed intentionally raised interest rates to combat inflation. The economy was weak as a result of raising rates. The point is that it was self-inflicted.

Moreover, Reagan cut taxes in 1981 not 1983. The economy stayed down for the next two years. 1983 is when the economy turned around, precisely when the Fed took its foot off the brakes.
 
Winston said:
The GOP is self destructing: Give donors everything we can and eject.
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That's a good point. Congress members who lose are going to need jobs next year. What better way to guarantee a good job on K Street than to suck up to donors.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well while the OP I believe seriously distorts what the tax bill is and will do, I remember how unpopular the Reagan tax reform was as the Democrats were characterizing that in the same way back then. It had about 15% public approval. But, once it was ushered in, we enjoyed the longest period of sustained growth in a peacetime economy that this nation had ever seen.

I am pretty sure the GOP in Congress know what they are doing and anticipate much the same kind of results. It always takes a few months for any tax reform to kick in with whatever affect it will have on the economy so we will see.
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Reagan had the big tax cut of 1981, reversed in large part with tax increases in 1982, then the big Tax Reform Act of 1986 (roughly revenue neutral), that in fact ushered in the S&L crisis, and then a recession beginning in 1990. In fact, the period following that, which had the Bush I tax increases and the Clinton tax increases, was the longest period of expansion, outpacing the Reagan years on every major area as far as I know.

And the problem is when Reagan passed the big tax cuts early on, it was after the deep recession in 1980 going on during the campaign, then a small break, then a second much longer recession in 1981-1982. But as we sit here, the stock market is on a years long tear, all time record corporate after-tax profits, and we've had years of consecutive quarters of positive jobs growth. So there is no comparison in the economic conditions when Reagan passed his major tax cut and today. In fact, one problem is we're due for both a stock market correction and a recession, but we've just shot both barrels of the stimulus shotgun during a period of expansion, looking at now $12 trillion in deficits, IF THERE IS NO RECESSION in the next decade. It will grow from there with any significant downturn.
 
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