Mnuchin Scams the Tax-Cuts, claims they pay for themselves

washunut said:

To try and educate What If and yourself. Having liability insurance is not to protect the driver, but to protect anyone who might be hurt or have damage due to your driving.

Always find it so sad that folks are so easily duped by campaign slogans.

Click to expand...

And requiring to have health insurance protects hospitals that are required to admit everyone to the emergency room.

But that isn't the only reason for the mandate. Educate yourself about why the mandate is needed: https://www.americanprogress.org/is...4/08/7720/why-we-need-the-individual-mandate/

ludin said:

To my knowledge the CBO doesn't predict economic growth.
And a 2.9% growth rate is like low level for a healthy economy.

It should be in he 3-4% range.
So their calculation is not far off.

We will have to see what happens.

Click to expand...

The CBO works with whatever numbers are given to them. It's more of a what if accounting group.

Manc Skipper said:

It's long past time the "create jobs by cutting taxes to the rich" was called out. Jobs are created when the work grows beyond the capacity of the existing workforce, and extra staff are needed to cope. Such tax cuts merely go to increased shareholdings, buy-backs or bonuses, not jobs. Better to cut taxes for the middle or lower classes to stoke demand, and create jobs.

Click to expand...

I may have asked this before, but how do you cut taxes on the 50% that pay no taxes?

jonny5 said:

How are the poor suffering more under this bill by still not paying any taxes? If you dont like your $900 though, donate it to them.

Click to expand...

That's the surprise inside!

The next phase is cutting programs for the poor.

Starve the beast.

washunut said:

To try and educate What If and yourself. Having liability insurance is not to protect the driver, but to protect anyone who might be hurt or have damage due to your driving.

Always find it so sad that folks are so easily duped by campaign slogans.

Click to expand...

And when you don't have health insurance and shatter your leg snowboarding WE ALL get to pick up the tab.

You harm everybody with higher premiums/costs.

What if...? said:

And when you don't have health insurance and shatter your leg snowboarding WE ALL get to pick up the tab.

You harm everybody with higher premiums/costs.

Click to expand...

Only to the extent you cant/wont pick up the tab.

jonny5 said:

Like I said, Im all for getting rid of all deductions, credits, etc. Just pointing out that this is not a new thing.

Click to expand...

I was responding to this point: "Seems only fair to get just compensation in the form of a tax break when you give your land to the govt."

Lots of times those deductions are well known for not being "fair" but actually, clearly fraudulent. And even if you have the deduction on the books, it should be sharply curtailed to prevent abuse.

washunut said:

Only to the extent you cant/wont pick up the tab.

Click to expand...

And your point?

Think kids who won't pay for health insurance can afford a couple hundred thousand to rebuild their legs?

What if...? said:

That's the surprise inside!

The next phase is cutting programs for the poor.

Starve the beast.

Click to expand...

We can hope.

JasperL said:

I was responding to this point: "Seems only fair to get just compensation in the form of a tax break when you give your land to the govt."

Lots of times those deductions are well known for not being "fair" but actually, clearly fraudulent. And even if you have the deduction on the books, it should be sharply curtailed to prevent abuse.

Click to expand...

Ok, and like I said, get rid of it. Win win. Fraud is what happens when govt creates complexity and then is incompetent in their job.

jonny5 said:

We can hope.

Click to expand...

Let them eat cake never works out well.

Y'all evidently want to repeat history.

jonny5 said:

Ok, and like I said, get rid of it. Win win. Fraud is what happens when govt creates complexity and then is incompetent in their job.

Click to expand...

Yep, and the tax bill likely voted through next week creates a massive amount of complexity, and it will be abused, because that's exactly correct. Tax lawyers are salivating at the prospect of the loopholes opened up. It's a big reason I oppose these POS bills. Written in near total secrecy, largely by lobbyists, rushed to vote with no time for the public to read, much less comment, on the changes - what could go wrong?!

" the career employees in the department began to bubble up earlier this year"

The scariest part of the article. Deep State is alive and well.

What if...? said:

And your point?

Think kids who won't pay for health insurance can afford a couple hundred thousand to rebuild their legs?

Click to expand...

Perhaps ACA should have thought of that. If there was a provision for a catastrophic insurance policies, then you would have a point.

I love it. This guy is a grade-A asshole, he's basically just squatting in there, using it for photo-ops and to razzle dazzle his trophy-wife who loves the spotlight too.

Either way he's ****ed.
Either he lied about it.
Or he did it and found out it was something they didn't want to publish.

Either way he's a fraud.

akyron said:

" the career employees in the department began to bubble up earlier this year"

The scariest part of the article. Deep State is alive and well.

Click to expand...

Yeah, deep state means career employees who care about doing an HONEST JOB. Scary that we have people in government who aren't letting the Treas. Sec. lie his sorry ass off to the public without leaking the fact that he's a lying liar. :roll:

BTW, I'll put that quote in context for you:

"The angst among the career employees in the department began to bubble up earlier this year, Mr. Frerick said, when Treasury’s political appointees started to press to remove a 2012 research paper that contradicted the administration’s views about how much corporate tax cuts would lead to wage growth. According to Mr. Frerick, the discussions sometimes grew tense to the point that James Mackie, the director of the Office of Tax Analysis and a longtime Treasury employee, would leave the office visibly upset."

So the ANGST among this scary, scary "deep state" began to "bubble up" when political hacks tried to bury research that contradicted lies being told by the political hacks, up to and including the Treas. Sec.

Where's the problem?

washunut said:

Perhaps ACA should have thought of that. If there was a provision for a catastrophic insurance policies, then you would have a point.

Click to expand...

And they're all going to need adult care when they get older. It they need basic checkups, access to mental health care, etc.

What we really need to do is look at the profit motive. I'm not convinced scientists will only do their jobs if somebody else is going to get rich from it.

What if...? said:

And they're all going to need adult care when they get older. It they need basic checkups, access to mental health care, etc.

What we really need to do is look at the profit motive. I'm not convinced scientists will only do their jobs if somebody else is going to get rich from it.

Click to expand...

Different issue. Complicated issue, never solved with one simple solution.

JasperL said:

Yeah, deep state means career employees who care about doing an HONEST JOB. ?

Click to expand...

If you consider corrupt officials having discussions in the fbi deputy directors office about an insurance plan to thwart the will of the american electorate "an honest job" as you say then you may have a point there.

Corrupt deep state people will go to jail over some of their activities eventually.

Ex-Mueller aides' texts revealed: Read them here

It is unfortunate for the american people that some of these corrupt officials have impulse control parts of their brain damaged or shut off.

akyron said:

If you consider corrupt officials having discussions in the fbi deputy directors office about an insurance plan to thwart the will of the american electorate "an honest job" as you say then you may have a point there.

Corrupt deep state people will go to jail over some of their activities eventually.

Ex-Mueller aides' texts revealed: Read them here

It is unfortunate for the american people that some of these corrupt officials have impulse control parts of their brain damaged or shut off.

Click to expand...

You're just moving goal posts on me.

As to the new goal posts - the texts - if you want to quote any one of them that indicates he did anything illegal, be my guest but I'm not reading the article to find it. I will say the idea that if the FBI isn't "neutral" with respect to their targets then every investigation is tainted is pretty silly. I know a TBI person right now who is part of a team prosecuting a group of people, and she is in the trial now, and they're loving hammering these guys to the wall. Doesn't mean anything at all 'corrupt' or even inappropriate is going on in the TBI.

JasperL said:

You're just moving goal posts on me..

Click to expand...

I think you might be conflating an honest willingness to do a good job with a politically motivated honest willingness to run cover for one candidate and attack another there.

Meuller could easily have put together a team beyond reproach. He did not. He put together a team of billary activists directly involved with proactively steering multiple political investigations. This will eventually come out in the wash regardless. We already have deep staters stupidly revealing themselves at many levels of government.
The less stupid ones that hide until the heat abates will do more damage to the country in the coming years undermining the public confidence in US institutions.

akyron said:

I think you might be conflating an honest willingness to do a good job with a politically motivated honest willingness to run cover for one candidate and attack another there.

Click to expand...

In your first post on this thread that I responded to, you criticized the "deep state" for getting upset at the Sec. of Treas and other political appointees burying, deleting, research that contradicted their lies about the cost of the tax cuts. Mnuchin claimed the OTP had produced analysis that concluded the tax cuts would raise revenue and he lied about that. I don't see it as a negative that career people are objecting to political appointees LYING about major tax bills.

So then you moved the goal posts to texts, which don't show what you're claiming there, or if they do, quote them.

Meuller could easily have put together a team beyond reproach. He did not. He put together a team of billary activists directly involved with proactively steering multiple political investigations. This will eventually come out in the wash regardless. We already have deep staters stupidly revealing themselves at many levels of government.
The less stupid ones that hide until the heat abates will do more damage to the country in the coming years undermining the public confidence in US institutions.

Click to expand...

The guy in question was removed from the investigation months ago - in July as I recall. And if you want to claim that his team is just a bunch of "billary activists" then back it up. Who among the major members of his team is just a political hack? How many of the many involved in the investigation are? Name some names. Etc.

And my point that you clipped and ignored was that there is no requirement for investigators to be neutral to their targets. In this case because it's a political investigation, that is important, but showing that Strzok didn't like Trump - even despised him - is NOT evidence of wrongdoing on his part in the investigation, much less evidence that Mueller's team is just a bunch of hacks out to destroy Dear Leader. When it's all said and done, the evidence will or should speak for itself, and there is no reason to suspect that the Mueller team overall is doing anything but following evidence where it takes them.

JasperL said:

In your first post on this thread that I responded to, you criticized the "deep state" for getting upset at the Sec. of Treas and other political appointees burying, deleting, research that contradicted their lies about the cost of the tax cuts.

Click to expand...

If they are right then it needs to be brought out.. There is no evidence of that as of now. Right now there is a large pattern of deep staters getting axed or investigated. This fits right in so far.

akyron said:

If they are right then it needs to be brought out.. There is no evidence of that as of now. Right now there is a large pattern of deep staters getting axed or investigated. This fits right in so far.

Click to expand...

Why are you deleting parts of my comments that directly address your next comment?

"Mnuchin claimed the OTP had produced analysis that concluded the tax cuts would raise revenue and he lied about that." That report hasn't been released, so it's either not been prepared, or it's been prepared and contradicted his assertions.

And then you just ignored the rest of my comment as if I didn't make it to reassert something I also addressed, and move the goal posts from the specific to something so general no one can address it. This is tiring....

JasperL said:

Why are you deleting parts of my comments that directly address your next comment?

"Mnuchin claimed the OTP had produced analysis that concluded the tax cuts would raise revenue and he lied about that." That report hasn't been released, so it's either not been prepared, or it's been prepared and contradicted his assertions.

And then you just ignored the rest of my comment as if I didn't make it to reassert something I also addressed, and move the goal posts from the specific to something so general no one can address it. This is tiring....

Click to expand...

Address what? You saying Muchin lied based on anonymous sources?

Off an article posted by a well known reporter famous for messing up the facts?

New York Times Tries To Factcheck Gary Johnson On Aleppo, Repeatedly Steps On A Rake Instead
"Alan Rappeport of the New York Times quickly published the definitive piece for the paper of record excoriating Johnson for his ignorance. Unfortunately for Rappeport, his piece was also riddled with errors. Unlike Johnson, who was asked a question on the spot, the New York Times reporter had the Internet, paid editors, and all the time in the world to help him avoid making a bunch of embarrassing errors."

Not buying it. Right now this will all come out in the wash and I will wait a couple of weeks for another shoe to drop before making any conclusion other than observing the present pattern.

Mueller did take action. He concealed the depth of his tainted investigation from the congressional oversight committee for months.









More Clinton ties on Mueller team

"Andrew Weissmann attended Hillary Clinton’s election-night party at the Javits Center in New York City. Fox News reported earlier this week that Weissmann in January also praised departing acting Attorney General Sally Yates after she was fired for refusing to defend President Trump’s travel ban. "

"Aaron Zebley, a former partner at WilmerHale and a former chief of staff to Mueller when he served as FBI director, represented Justin Cooper, a key figure in the Clinton email controversy. "

"Cooper is the longtime Bill Clinton aide responsible for helping set up the now-infamous private email server. Cooper later admitted to “two instances where he destroyed [Hillary] Clinton’s old mobile devices by breaking them in half or hitting them with a hammer.”"

"Jeannie Rhee, another former partner at WilmerHale, represented ex-Obama National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes, the Clinton Foundation in a 2015 racketeering case, and Hillary Clinton herself in a lawsuit seeking access to her private emails. "

"Strzok was involved in a host of significant developments in both the Clinton and Russia probes. He was present during the FBI’s July 2016 interview with Hillary Clinton at the close of the email investigation, shortly before then-FBI Director James Comey called her actions “extremely careless” but did not recommend any criminal charges.

Strzok also oversaw the FBI’s interviews with Trump’s fired national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty last week to lying to FBI investigators in the Russia probe. "