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Tax cuts: close-mindedness from the left

Nickyjo said:
I disagree. Some of them are no doubt tools of the rich folks who want more. But some of them really believe that if you give those in the top 1% even more than they have been hauling in in recent years, that the job creators will create more prosperity which will trickle down. (The opposite notion, to direct resources to those at the bottom, makes more economic sense to me.). These are true believers who never got over Ayn Rand’s 10th grade nonsense. And, of course, rich folk who don’t believe Ayn for a minute, pay them.
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In other words, as Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
 
TurtleDude said:
Democrat went from worshiping the Soviet Union to trying to balkanize the USA
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and now Republicans worship Russia. Trump will take some of the wind out of their sails, but who will do the same for Democrats? As long as extreme partisanship rules, government of the people is in jeopardy.
 
Nickyjo said:
I disagree. Some of them are no doubt tools of the rich folks who want more. But some of them really believe that if you give those in the top 1% even more than they have been hauling in in recent years, that the job creators will create more prosperity which will trickle down. (The opposite notion, to direct resources to those at the bottom, makes more economic sense to me.). These are true believers who never got over Ayn Rand’s 10th grade nonsense. And, of course, rich folk who don’t believe Ayn for a minute, pay them.
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Those people would fit into the unsophisticated camp in my view. They don't understand that giving Comcast a tax break isn't going to improve their customer service.
 
Dittohead not! said:
and now Republicans worship Russia. Trump will take some of the wind out of their sails, but who will do the same for Democrats? As long as extreme partisanship rules, government of the people is in jeopardy.
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Horsecrap. Where are Republicans worshipping Russia? its almost as funny as people who claim to be libertarians who are fans of confiscatory taxes and gun bans:mrgreen:
 
Moderate Right said:
I'll mostly agree with that but I am a big believer that everyone over the poverty level should be paying some sort of federal income taxes (please spare me the BS that these people still pay other taxes because the rich pay other taxes too and much more of them than the poor do). I personally think there should be a minimum tax per various income levels. No matter how many deductions and credits you have, you still have to pay X amount of dollars in taxes. The poverty level is around 15% so only that percentage should be paying zero. Let's say someone earning 25k per year has to pay a minimum tax of $100 and so on and so on up the income levels, including the rich who, like I said, no matter how many deductions and tax credits they have, they still have to pay the minimum tax for that income level. However, I do believe that corporate tax rates are too high and lowering them would create jobs and bring jobs back to the US as well as keeping some jobs in the US.
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$100 would be a huge tax cut to someone making $25k a year, when I was making $25k a year I was paying $1700 or so in income taxes to the fed a year. yup, POOR PEOPLE DO PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. If you're single, no kids, not head of household you know, the BASIC OF MOST BASIC income earners, you pay taxes if you're "poor" at $25k a year. it was $25k a year, minus the standard deduction (~$6000) plus if you're lucky any other minor deductions for student loan interest or 401k contributions, then the 10-15% income tax bracket split, you pay, just around 11% of your income to the FED.

oh, and you need to quit believing the lie, "corporate tax rates are too high and lowering them would create jobs and bring jobs back to the US " the Corporations themselves have admitted that no, a tax break WON'T get them to invest more in jobs here or even increase wages, cause that's not how it works. get your head out of the Right's ass and breath the sweat smell of reality, but if you like the ****...... that's you're choice
 
TurtleDude said:
Horsecrap. Where are Republicans worshipping Russia? its almost as funny as people who claim to be libertarians who are fans of confiscatory taxes and gun bans:mrgreen:
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Liberty is freedom from authority. Government is not the only source of authority. A madman holding a gun to the back of your head has a meaningful measure of authority. An economic system that heavily favors conglomerates and monopolies is obviously in opposition to liberty.

Or perhaps you are unaware that libertarians favor liberty?
 
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Absentglare said:
Liberty is freedom from authority. Government is not the only source of authority. A madman holding a gun to the back of your head has a meaningful measure of authority. An economic system that heavily favors conglomerates and monopolies is obviously in opposition to liberty.

Or perhaps you are unaware that libertarians favor liberty?
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Perhaps you are aware that we are talking about government coercion
 
And here I thought we were talking about tax cuts.
 
TurtleDude said:
Perhaps you are aware that we are talking about government coercion
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Your response is purely rhetorical garbage. Perhaps you never heard of a social contract.

Nice countries are expensive. We have generations upon generations of investments in our country, not from the benevolence of the wealthy, but because of government.
 
Absentglare said:
Your response is purely rhetorical garbage. Perhaps you never heard of a social contract.

Nice countries are expensive. We have generations upon generations of investments in our country, not from the benevolence of the wealthy, but because of government.
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its time for more than half the country to start paying for what they get. If you think the government is to be credited, you should be giving more of what you earn to the government
 
TurtleDude said:
its time for more than half the country to start paying for what they get. If you think the government is to be credited, you should be giving more of what you earn to the government
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I'm EAGER to do so, but i lack the opportunity when my peers let greed run roughshod over prosperity.
 
radcen said:
Tax cuts: close-mindedness from the left

Just perception, based on observation, but... I suspect that the right could come up with the most awesome tax cut and reform that would be of great benefit to the middle class and the poor, give them virtually everything they want and need, and yet the left would still complain if by chance the wealthy someone got some small benefit, too.

Lower/middle class get what it needs, left's response is: " :2mad: ZOMG! More tax cuts for the wealthy! This is so unfair!"
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I don't doubt it. That's the shape of things today. I remember when Obama was president, I commented many times here at Debate Politics that Obama could come up with a cure for cancer and solve world hunger and the wingtards would still vote it down.

I wonder if this is what they mean when they say "chickens coming home to roost?"

Did it bother you when your guy's ****-blocked Obama at every turn? Bet it didn't.

Karma's a bitch for sure.

But, anyone who has been paying attention or have done even the smallest amount of research, republican OR democrat, know this tax bill mostly benefits the uber rich and ****s the middle-lower class. But what the ****? Pass the burden down to our kid's and grandkid's, right? That's what you guy's are famous for.

Now, you run and be a good rightwinger and toe the party line. Help the filthy rich get richer. It's the GOP claim to fame. Keep up the tradition. **** reality.

The economy is a big ship and a big ship is hard to turn around. Obama turned it around and Trump is determined to **** it up again.

When CNN plays the ad below, you know they are talking about you guy's, right? I mean, you know that right?

 
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Well, let's see, the GOP has slapped together a tax bill that benefits the rich exclusively. Guess those of us who recognize this garbage bill for what it is are "close-minded."
 
LostArtist said:
of your intelligence and bias yes. refusing to use the proper name is just childish, but you're a Turtle.... Dude
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someone appears to be triggered. If that is going to upset you, perhaps this isn't the place for you. Trump supporters are called far worse
 
Absentglare said:
I'm EAGER to do so, but i lack the opportunity when my peers let greed run roughshod over prosperity.
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smart industrious people make their own opportunity rather than demanding others provide that too them
 
TurtleDude said:
smart industrious people make their own opportunity rather than demanding others provide that too them
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No, you're referring to cunning but less intelligent people who need to engineer an unfair advantage by making the playing field less level in order to avoid competition from lower classes.

I'm not going to bribe my policy into law, i have things called "morals". I cannot understand how any American could support a $500 billion cash handout to wealthy foreigners at the expense of the American middle and lower classes.
 
MrPeanut said:
I think we would need a plan that is good for the middle class and poor first. There is a lot of truth to the fact that most Democrats would oppose tax cuts generally, because of the price of programs, but if there was a truly beneficial tax plan being pushed by Republicans it would be interesting to see how things fell. The ideas Republicans are pushing now are just atrocious, and the response by Democrats is proportional in my opinion.
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How about the middle and upper classes first, the ones that pay for the moochers that you wish to provide even greater benefits to?
 
Absentglare said:
No, you're referring to cunning but less intelligent people who need to engineer an unfair advantage by making the playing field less level in order to avoid competition from lower classes.

I'm not going to bribe my policy into law, i have things called "morals". I cannot understand how any American could support a $500 billion cash handout to wealthy foreigners at the expense of the American middle and lower classes.
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only someone who thinks either that the government actually owns all the money or labors under the delusion that the group that pays 40% of the income tax and all the death tax isn't paying their share of their citizenship benefits would spew such idiocy.

taking less from the rich is hardly a handout. that claim is based on the silliness that higher tax rates are written in stone by the Lord Himself and anything less is giving the rich something they didn't deserve.

sorry but taking less from people who already pay more than their share of the income tax burden is not a handout, Now if it gets to the point where that one percent is paying less than one percent of the income tax then maybe its a handout, but since they are paying 40 TIMES that, lets stash the idiocy that the rich get a handout with a tax cut because they still will be paying more of the FIT burden than at any other time in history
 
maxparrish said:
How about the middle and upper classes first, the ones that pay for the moochers that you wish to provide even greater benefits to?
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Many of the "moochers" work full time. They are underpaid, but that has more to do with businesses realizing that the tax payers will subsidize some of the labor costs which allows them to pass more money to upper management and the share holders. The middle class absolutely deserves a tax cut. The upper class benefits from the current system as it is.
 
Absentglare said:
I'm EAGER to do so, but i lack the opportunity when my peers let greed run roughshod over prosperity.
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Although I could have picked out any one of a hundred posts expousing your like-minded views, I think yours is fairly representative of the sentimental 'I'm envious and what's in it for me' bilge that has infected public policy disputes. The entire tax policy debate has been reduced to class warfare and accusations of "greed", a bitter argument over peter robbing paul and which peters are going to walk away with the gang's loot.

This attitude reminds me of the Seinfeld episode, when George Costanza is trying to secure a posh rent-controlled apartment (the loot) by selling his "virtue" as a pathetic and helpless victim. George whines to the controlling board how he was handcuffed to a bed in his underwear by a Nazi, drivel about his sexual embarrassment, and how all of this "are simply, horrifyingly, the story of my life as a short, stocky, slow witted bald man.".

However, he does not really secure it until he adds, upon leaving, that "Oh, also... my fiancé died from licking toxic envelopes that I picked out.", after which sobs and loud crying erupts from the board members.

That is the moral corruption of contemporary America - everyone seeking deserving goodies by the "virtue" of showing themselves a part of the most pathetic and helpless group - someone deserving of some special treatment that, if they don't get, makes the other guy "greedy".
 
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MrPeanut said:
Many of the "moochers" work full time. They are underpaid, but that has more to do with businesses realizing that the tax payers will subsidize some of the labor costs which allows them to pass more money to upper management and the share holders. The middle class absolutely deserves a tax cut. The upper class benefits from the current system as it is.
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Actually the underclass benefits from "the system" as it is. Whenever a group poaches the the fruits of the labor of others, they are benefiting by a system of property takings (i.e. lootings). Without the "system" , those paying taxes would proportionally be better off (as they were in the gilded age). Those who pay the moochers are deserving of getting their money back...not the ones who have been living off their income.
 
TurtleDude said:
bill Maher is not only a twit, he's a gaping hypocrite. when he was whining about the Bush tax cut, Ann Coulter asked him why he doesn't send more money to the federal government. HE started hemming and hawing and whining and evading . He's a complete whining douchebag who has no credibility. his real hard on is with the bible thumping wing of the GOP because his real lean is libertine and he despises any sort of person judging his libertine proclivities. I think his left wing economics are nothing more than an attempt to create consistency in his political views which are mainly a reaction to the moral fascism of the bible types. but he comes off as a gaping asshole on most issues
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I am sure Bill Maher has harsh words for you too... oh wait, to Bill, you are irrelevant.

But it's a red herring to suggest that an alternative to passing a reasonable and fair tax plan people who don't like it should donate more. It's like those morons who say if you don't like an American policy, just leave. Instead, I suggest we change the policy.
 
MTAtech said:
I am sure Bill Maher has harsh words for you too... oh wait, to Bill, you are irrelevant.

But it's a red herring to suggest that an alternative to passing a reasonable and fair tax plan people who don't like it should donate more. It's like those morons who say if you don't like an American policy, just leave. Instead, I suggest we change the policy.
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I suggest those who want more government start paying for it and stop telling those of us who don't we need to fund what the big nanny state fan boys want
 
radcen said:
Tax cuts: close-mindedness from the left

Just perception, based on observation, but... I suspect that the right could come up with the most awesome tax cut and reform that would be of great benefit to the middle class and the poor, give them virtually everything they want and need, and yet the left would still complain if by chance the wealthy someone got some small benefit, too.

Lower/middle class get what it needs, left's response is: " :2mad: ZOMG! More tax cuts for the wealthy! This is so unfair!"
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That may be.

But this tax plan isn't even in the same universe as that imaginary one.
 
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