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Democrats get caught lying about GOP tax cut

KLATTU

KLATTU

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
Click to expand...

I am shocked. SHOCKED I TELL YA! :rolleyes:

I thought Trump was the liar. :rolleyes:
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
Click to expand...

In simpler terms, the standard deduction is being raised: $12,000 single, $24,000 married. That means all but the most wealthy are not going to pay more taxes. People whining about state tax deductions and interest deductions will not itemize, and probably will not need to go a tax preparer. TurboTax or do it yourself. To hit $24K you must have one hell of a house or pay one hell of a bunch of state tax.

If anything the middle class will pay less.

And to the EBS* here, pull your taxes from from last year and see just how far away from $ 12k or $ 24k you really are.

*Eternal Bitching Squad
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
Click to expand...

Kamela Harris has a point. Assuming she's tweeting to her constituents then California along with NY are the states about to get hit the hardest.

This bill is rotten to Blue states and a sweet deal for Red states just like the proposed Obamacare repeal was.

The irony, most of Obama's policies really helped red states.
 
chuckiechan said:
In simpler terms, the standard deduction is being raised: $12,000 single, $24,000 married. That means all but the most wealthy are not going to pay more taxes.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. The personal exemption is being eliminated. That's 4 X $4,050 for a family of four. If they're taking the standard deduction now that's a $28,900 deduction compared to $24,000 under the GOP plan. That's why the GOP is raising the child tax credit to $1,600, which will in most cases make up for it.

But the fact the standard deduction is being doubled itself is not as strong of a tax deduction as you're making it out to be.
 
iliveonramen said:
Kamela Harris has a point. Assuming she's tweeting to her constituents then California along with NY are the states about to get hit the hardest.

This bill is rotten to Blue states and a sweet deal for Red states just like the proposed Obamacare repeal was.

The irony, most of Obama's policies really helped red states.
Click to expand...

I live in California and I deduct my state taxes from my federal. Why should every American tax payer fund my tax break? What is in it for the country as a whole? The reason it's important is there are a lot of high earners in blue states. Well, why should small tax payers fund their out of control budgets?

And lastly, only those who itemize over the $12K or $24K married standard deduction will be able to benefit - You get two write off $24K in interest payments you don't even have. Please explain why you are complaining?

You just can't count on WaPo for a fair shake. It's owned by Jeff Bezo's who owns Amazon and he knows his number is coming up in the anti trust microscope sooner than later, and he'd rather have a democrat he can pay off than a closed fist asshole like Trump.

More info:

Trump, GOP tax-reform bill text: changes to individual brackets, deductions, corporate rate - Business Insider

The tax plan is not compete yet, so there will be some changes. You personal exemption at this point in time is rolled into the standard deduction.
 
KLATTU said:
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.
Click to expand...

Why is this funny? A tax increase on 6.5 percent of the bottom three quintiles is a serious drag on consumption. How much of the savings from these tax cuts will wind up back into the economy relative to whats lost in consumption from the 6.5% you mentioned?
 
Anagram said:
Not necessarily true. The personal exemption is being eliminated. That's 4 X $4,050 for a family of four. If they're taking the standard deduction now that's a $28,900 deduction compared to $24,000 under the GOP plan. That's why the GOP is raising the child tax credit to $1,600, which will in most cases make up for it.

But the fact the standard deduction is being doubled itself is not as strong of a tax deduction as you're making it out to be.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Plus assume that family had mortgage interest, taxes, and charity totaling $18,000 in 2017. Since the 2017 std. deduction is $12,700, they'd itemize and get the 4 exemptions, total deductions of ($18,000 + $16,200) $34,200.

Next year, their itemized deductions have to exceed $24,000 before they are worth anything, and so they'll lose any benefit and be stuck with the $24,000. Now they have $10,200 more in taxable income under the GOP plan.

As you mention the child tax credit went up by $600, and there's a new "family" tax credit of $300 for each non-child on the return - i.e. mom and dad in our examples. So the family gets an additional $1,800 in tax credits.
 
Anagram said:
Not necessarily true. The personal exemption is being eliminated. That's 4 X $4,050 for a family of four. If they're taking the standard deduction now that's a $28,900 deduction compared to $24,000 under the GOP plan. That's why the GOP is raising the child tax credit to $1,600, which will in most cases make up for it.

But the fact the standard deduction is being doubled itself is not as strong of a tax deduction as you're making it out to be.
Click to expand...

You are correct at this point in time. I think. But the plan is still a work in progress with giving and taking along the way. I hope the R's don't Obamacare it, and pass it with a strict party line vote. We can't be doing that on big plans that affect so many people.

Trump tax plan: 'Doubled standard deduction' is misleading - Business Insider
If you have children, your fate is uncertain. The plan would abolish the $4,050 exemption you get to take for each of your dependent children. But it would also increase the child tax credit — by an unspecified amount. Once that amount is specified, you'll be able to figure out whether you face a tax increase or a tax cut or what.
Click to expand...
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
Click to expand...


pinocchio_4.jpg

;)
 
Floridafan said:
Do we need a tax cut that will add 1.5 trillion to our national debt?
Click to expand...


It seems that the republicans have decided to add to the debt to make the largest tax cut possible. But they will
also argue that the debt won't be as large as predicted because of increased economic growth.

The sides have changed. Democrats lecturing about debt and deficits. Republicans forgot about pay as you go.
 
chuckiechan said:
I live in California and I deduct my state taxes from my federal. Why should every American tax payer fund my tax break? What is in it for the country as a whole? The reason it's important is there are a lot of high earners in blue states. Well, why should small tax payers fund their out of control budgets?
Click to expand...

Because you are taxing income that is being paid in taxes.

In this tax bill....
Johnny Trust Fund will pay less in inheritance tax because it's unfair he has to pay taxes on money he doesn't earned because his parents did.
Paying taxes on money you've already PAID in taxes to your state or local government, completely fair.
If double taxation is bad....WTF is paying taxes on money you no longer have because you've paid it in taxes?


Also...why is it fair that families get child deductions? Why do I pay property tax when I don't have kids? Why do homeowners get interest rate deductions? What's ridiculous is you would point fingers over a middle class deduction while sweet give always are given in abundance to those that need it the least.
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...orking-class-families/?utm_term=.725a9e7bffd1

4 pinocchios. Yikes!
But notice the funny thing about this calculation: Only a small percentage (6.5 percent) of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three quintiles will actually face a tax increase.

Meanwhile, more than 97 million (80 percent) will receive a tax cut. Doing the math the same way the JEC staff did, we come up with an average tax cut of about $450 for those 97 million households.
Click to expand...
What this hides is the extent of those tax cuts. Just like the Bush tax-cuts, many (but not all) will get a tax-cut. But that tax-cut will be small -- only a few hundred dollars, while millionaires will get $100,000's in cuts. Then, a few years later, the GOP will propose cuts to student loans, Medicaid, etc. because deficits are high.

Saying that, I am not even sure that the fact-checkers are right. The document that they use has a metric "avg tax-cut" in the quintile. "Averages" can hide much. The average in a quintile may show a tax-cut. That doesn't mean that everyone in that quintile gets a cut. It just averages out that way.
 
MTAtech said:
What this hides is the extent of those tax cuts. Just like the Bush tax-cuts, many (but not all) will get a tax-cut. But that tax-cut will be small -- only a few hundred dollars, while millionaires will get $100,000's in cuts. Then, a few years later, the GOP will propose cuts to student loans, Medicaid, etc. because deficits are high.

Saying that, I am not even sure that the fact-checkers are right. The document that they use has a metric "avg tax-cut" in the quintile. "Averages" can hide much. The average in a quintile may show a tax-cut. That doesn't mean that everyone in that quintile gets a cut. It just averages out that way.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I mean, a big part of this tax bill is to lower the tax "burden" on business because of the "35% rate". But the right doesn't want to talk about averages in THAT case, since the "average" business is only paying 18% in taxes before the change, so now we're going to lower the rate from 35 to 20? What's the average going to be then, 2%?
 
Critter7r said:
Exactly. I mean, a big part of this tax bill is to lower the tax "burden" on business because of the "35% rate". But the right doesn't want to talk about averages in THAT case, since the "average" business is only paying 18% in taxes before the change, so now we're going to lower the rate from 35 to 20? What's the average going to be then, 2%?
Click to expand...
The operative question is who is going to make up the difference? You can't have everyone getting a tax cut and also be revenue neutral.
 
Anagram said:
Not necessarily true. The personal exemption is being eliminated. That's 4 X $4,050 for a family of four. If they're taking the standard deduction now that's a $28,900 deduction compared to $24,000 under the GOP plan. That's why the GOP is raising the child tax credit to $1,600, which will in most cases make up for it.

But the fact the standard deduction is being doubled itself is not as strong of a tax deduction as you're making it out to be.
Click to expand...

which is why raising the child tax credit is better.
credits are always better than deductions.

even at 12k most people didn't itemize. it takes a long time and frankly you know whether or not you have >12k in deductions.

they are killing the SL deduction which isn't great but isn't too bad.
then again this is just a framework all the details have to be spun into it.

i will at least get a % reduction on my bracket that is for sure.
so i will save some money there as well.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
It seems that the republicans have decided to add to the debt to make the largest tax cut possible. But they will
also argue that the debt won't be as large as predicted because of increased economic growth.

The sides have changed. Democrats lecturing about debt and deficits. Republicans forgot about pay as you go.
Click to expand...

Both sides are using decades old scripts. When has a tax cut by the Republicans ever ITSELF RESULTED in revenue gains that made up for the losses due to the cuts?

Side question for anyone : When has your employer ever given you a nice raise after one of these top heavy tax cuts was done? I've been in the workforce since Reagan. Never seen new hires. Never seen a raise. Tech sector - is there there someplace (maybe wall st.) this actually happens?
 
If the Dems lied, there only following the example Trump has set with his daily fibs. Or is it only relevant when a Dem lies?
 
iliveonramen said:
Kamela Harris has a point. Assuming she's tweeting to her constituents then California along with NY are the states about to get hit the hardest.

This bill is rotten to Blue states and a sweet deal for Red states just like the proposed Obamacare repeal was.

The irony, most of Obama's policies really helped red states.
Click to expand...

Considering most of the policies that drive up government spending typically come blue states, it seems rather fair they get hit the hardest.

Tell your representatives to quit creating programs the federal government needs to fund so they can cut more taxes :p
 
Common Sense 1 said:
It seems that the republicans have decided to add to the debt to make the largest tax cut possible. But they will
also argue that the debt won't be as large as predicted because of increased economic growth.

The sides have changed. Democrats lecturing about debt and deficits. Republicans forgot about pay as you go.
Click to expand...

So a reduction in deficits will only occur with an increased economy, sounds like a cop out. Normal GOP hypocrisy, deficits only matter when a Dem is in the WH. If I am in debt, the solution is not to CUT my income. One does not need to be an economics major to see the fallacy of their strategy to tackle the deficit. If the economy tanks, and it will in a capitalist economy, who pays? Bush2 cut taxes and ran up a deficit with the War on Terror, have we paid those NOTES to CHINA?
 
iliveonramen said:
Because you are taxing income that is being paid in taxes.

In this tax bill....
Johnny Trust Fund will pay less in inheritance tax because it's unfair he has to pay taxes on money he doesn't earned because his parents did.
Paying taxes on money you've already PAID in taxes to your state or local government, completely fair.
If double taxation is bad....WTF is paying taxes on money you no longer have because you've paid it in taxes?


Also...why is it fair that families get child deductions? Why do I pay property tax when I don't have kids? Why do homeowners get interest rate deductions? What's ridiculous is you would point fingers over a middle class deduction while sweet give always are given in abundance to those that need it the least.
Click to expand...

Then states should cut taxes rather than keep raising them and the laying off part of the burden on the rest of the taxpayers.
 
Nap said:
Considering most of the policies that drive up government spending typically come blue states, it seems rather fair they get hit the hardest.

Tell your representatives to quit creating programs the federal government needs to fund so they can cut more taxes :p
Click to expand...

Since red States take more in federal funding than they put in....who do you think will feel the pain the most?
 
Moot said:
Since red States take more in federal funding than they put in....who do you think will feel the pain the most?
Click to expand...

And who put in those policies that is causing all of those federal funds to go to red states? Seems to me if people in blue states have an issue with it, then they should contact their representatives and complain about it.
 
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