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Thread: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

  1. #471
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    A complete audit of every department and automatic cuts made where needed that includes people and processes. There is a thing called sigma 6 that identifies and improves processes.
    it is designed to cut and eliminate wasteful processes.

    once this is done the saved money goes back to pay down the deficit. The government can then adopt a new budget planning system that allows it to operate in the black instead of the red.
    that is money saved per year.

    https://www.cagw.org/reporting/2016-prime-cuts

    in 1 year we could save 644b dollars. in 5 years that is 1.7 trillion dollars.
    if you do that over 10 years we could pay down the national debt by 10 trillion dollars and by 20 years we could be
    almost debt free if we free spending at current levels.
    Social Security already runs on a 1% overhead rate. Medicare operates more efficiently than private insurance.

    Forgive me if I am skeptical of "The Citizens Against Government Waste." What this group proposes for cutting "waste" is cuts to a slew of programs, including all agriculture programs; Social Security; Medicaid; and Medicare. What caught my eye is they want to eliminate the Energy Star program, which is responsible for getting consumer products more efficient -- which saves consumers billions.

    The group isn't about cutting waste, they're about cutting popular programs that Americans want. They want to, raise the Social Security retirement age; Raise the Eligibility Age for Medicare Recipients; Open the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling. Those are policy proposals, not waste. They're a right-winger's wet dream of policy changes.

    No surprise that you can cut a lot of spending if you lower the amount you pay senior citizen Social Security recipients; cut Medicare payments; lower Medicaid, etc. Why? So rich people can pay less taxes.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  2. #472
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Add to what I said above:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/o...ency.html?_r=0
    Why Is America Wasting So Much Energy?

    And ludin wants to get rid of Energy Star, which keeps that down.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  3. #473
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    A complete audit of every department and automatic cuts made where needed that includes people and processes. There is a thing called sigma 6 that identifies and improves processes.
    it is designed to cut and eliminate wasteful processes.

    once this is done the saved money goes back to pay down the deficit. The government can then adopt a new budget planning system that allows it to operate in the black instead of the red.
    that is money saved per year.

    https://www.cagw.org/reporting/2016-prime-cuts

    in 1 year we could save 644b dollars. in 5 years that is 1.7 trillion dollars.
    if you do that over 10 years we could pay down the national debt by 10 trillion dollars and by 20 years we could be
    almost debt free if we free spending at current levels.
    The problem is that we don't (or shouldn't) WANT to be "debt-free".

    Our debt is comprised largely of bonds that are in demand. People WANT to buy US Bonds. They WANT to park their money in the banking system of the US government. Now, while we may all disagree on the amount of debt needed, we shouldn't get rid of it ALL. If we did, then there'd be LESS stability of the dollar, because fewer people have an interest in it remaining viable. I'm sure there comes a point when it is too much, but speaking generally, the more people invested in US debt, the more people there are that are vested in its future viability.
    I'm not going to chase you while you run around with the goalpost in your arms.

  4. #474
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    The problem is that we don't (or shouldn't) WANT to be "debt-free".

    Our debt is comprised largely of bonds that are in demand. People WANT to buy US Bonds. They WANT to park their money in the banking system of the US government. Now, while we may all disagree on the amount of debt needed, we shouldn't get rid of it ALL. If we did, then there'd be LESS stability of the dollar, because fewer people have an interest in it remaining viable. I'm sure there comes a point when it is too much, but speaking generally, the more people invested in US debt, the more people there are that are vested in its future viability.
    until you can't pay those people back. that is the problem.
    it isn't about the debt but managing it at an acceptable level.

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    until you can't pay those people back. that is the problem.
    it isn't about the debt but managing it at an acceptable level.
    But the reality is that we don't really even have to pay them back (at least not with tax dollars). Treasury can just buy their own bonds to generate the funds for that.

    I realize that just because I can't imagine a scenario in which people wouldn't want to buy US bonds doesn't mean that there can't be such a scenario, but I think that the inability to pay back bonds would come long after people stopped buying bonds (i.e. there would be an indication that a difficulty in repayment was forthcoming). But "they" aren't decreasing "their" purchases of US bonds, so I don't see any reason to be worried about not being able to pay "them" back.
    Last edited by Critter7r; 11-15-17 at 04:42 PM.
    I'm not going to chase you while you run around with the goalpost in your arms.

  6. #476
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    But the reality is that we don't really even have to pay them back (at least not with tax dollars). Treasury can just buy their own bonds to generate the funds for that.

    I realize that just because I can't imagine a scenario in which people wouldn't want to buy US bonds doesn't mean that there can't be such a scenario, but I think that the inability to pay back bonds would come long after people stopped buying bonds (i.e. there would be an indication that a difficulty in repayment was forthcoming). But "they" aren't decreasing "their" purchases of US bonds, so I don't see any reason to be worried about not being able to pay "them" back.
    it is tax dollars that gives the dollar some of it's value.
    if i just show up with a barrel of money i printed off and go here you go.

    that doesn't instill very good faith in my money. it also doesn't make it very valuable.

    this is the same reason that MMT fails.

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