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Thread: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

  1. #461
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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It has been obvious for some time that tax revenue has been inadequate, given the demonstrated impossibility of radical spending cuts. Therefore, the last thing we need right now is another middle class tax cut. In fact, the middle class (and the wealthy, of course) should be paying more. Tax reform? Sure, but we need more revenue.


    We donít need tax cuts for the middle class


    We need more tax revenue from the middle class, not less.





    • Kirk J. Stark, Eric M. Zolt


    Amid the partisan rancor surrounding the framework for tax reform developed by GOP congressional leaders, there is one area of remarkable consensus: lower taxes for the middle class. The political logic is not hard to understand. The middle class continues to struggle, and, with midterm elections just around the corner, both parties need the support of middle-class voters.
    But missing from the tax debate is an appreciation that lawmakers have already crafted a tax-friendly regime for middle-income taxpayers. The result is a more progressive tax system that raises less revenue. Unless Congress is willing to dramatically cut major entitlement programs and eschew new social programs to address poverty and declining economic mobility, we need more tax revenue from the middle class, not less. . . .




    Anyone that wants to pay more money to the government can do so now.
    You don't need higher taxes just send your check to the US treasury.

    For some reason no one does this interesting isn't it.

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Anyone that wants to pay more money to the government can do so now.
    You don't need higher taxes just send your check to the US treasury.

    For some reason no one does this interesting isn't it.



    I wonder how high the National debt has to go to break the bank?

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by working stiff View Post
    I wonder how high the National debt has to go to break the bank?
    Well, Japan's debt is over 200% of GDP. We should be able to top that, especially since the dollar is the world's reserve currency. Besides, you aren't gullible enough to think any of it is actually going to be paid back, are you? We better hope it can go higher; there are 78 million baby boomers who are going to want their Social Security and Medicare. About 10K per day retiring now.

    And since only a third of us baby boomers saved for retirement, we will also need housing, food and utility bill assistance. Not to mention an Obama phone.

    So you better quit worrying about the debt. That's the least of your worries. BTW; working stiff.....keep working....

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Anyone that wants to pay more money to the government can do so now.
    You don't need higher taxes just send your check to the US treasury.

    For some reason no one does this interesting isn't it.
    That's just a red herring. The amount of money that will be raised if I decide to donate money to the Treasury (which I am not sure can be done) is minuscule compared to either leaving the rates alone or raising them on the rich.

    Both the Senate proposal and the similar proposal from House Republicans on the table now, offer huge tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy, then try to limit the impacts of these tax cuts on the budget deficit by clawing back tax credits and exemptions that mainly benefit the middle class. Of course many in the middle class would see their taxes go up.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That's just a red herring. The amount of money that will be raised if I decide to donate money to the Treasury (which I am not sure can be done) is minuscule compared to either leaving the rates alone or raising them on the rich.

    Both the Senate proposal and the similar proposal from House Republicans on the table now, offer huge tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy, then try to limit the impacts of these tax cuts on the budget deficit by clawing back tax credits and exemptions that mainly benefit the middle class. Of course many in the middle class would see their taxes go up.
    it is not a red herring at all. YOu do not need the federal government to raise taxes.
    You and anyone else is free to give all the money you want to the federal government.

    yet for all the groaning and moaning you people do about not paying enough in taxes you refuse to do it.
    while 1 person might not be a lot if all of the people with your mentalilty did it then it would be plenty.

    yet you don't. So either start putting your money where your mouth is or just be quiet about it.
    The fact is you don't want anymore of your money going to the federal government than what you have to.
    the hypocrisy in this matter is just astounding.

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by working stiff View Post
    I wonder how high the National debt has to go to break the bank?
    according to the latest numbers if nothing is done about the debt by 2035 social services and debt
    interest payments will consume the entire federal tax receipts.

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    according to the latest numbers if nothing is done about the debt by 2035 social services and debt
    interest payments will consume the entire federal tax receipts.
    Then we need tax increases, not tax-cuts.

    This in from the CBO, passing the Trump/GOP tax cut would REQUIRE an immediate $25 billion cut in Medicare, plus $111 billion in other cuts (which isn't legally possible). i.e., the whole exercise is illegal under Congress' own rules.

    https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115...oyerletter.pdf
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Then we need tax increases, not tax-cuts.

    This in from the CBO, passing the Trump/GOP tax cut would REQUIRE an immediate $25 billion cut in Medicare, plus $111 billion in other cuts (which isn't legally possible). i.e., the whole exercise is illegal under Congress' own rules.

    https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115...oyerletter.pdf
    No the federal government is spending and wasting too much money.
    Until the pig trough is cleaned up there is no reason that Americans should have to pay anymore than what they have too.

    https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-17-491SP

    there are almost 500 ways that the federal government can clean house and save more than 200b a year just from waste.
    The CBO doesn't score full effects either.

    The federal government has not proven itself responsible for handing it's current responsibility and financials there is no reason to give it more money.

    You and others seem to think otherwise. so put your money where your mouth is or be quiet about it.
    you are free to give as much of your money to the federal government as you want. same goes for anyone else that thinks like you.

    99% chance you won't do it.

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    No the federal government is spending and wasting too much money.
    ...
    So, what do you propose to cut from this "waste" that makes any reasonable amount of difference? Don't make me give you the insurance company with an army post (Why isn't government debt more of a problem in people's minds?).
    Last edited by MTAtech; 11-14-17 at 04:41 PM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: We Don't Need a Middle Class Tax Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    So, what do you propose to cut from this "waste" that makes any reasonable amount of difference? Don't make me give you the insurance company with an army post (Why isn't government debt more of a problem in people's minds?).
    A complete audit of every department and automatic cuts made where needed that includes people and processes. There is a thing called sigma 6 that identifies and improves processes.
    it is designed to cut and eliminate wasteful processes.

    once this is done the saved money goes back to pay down the deficit. The government can then adopt a new budget planning system that allows it to operate in the black instead of the red.
    that is money saved per year.

    https://www.cagw.org/reporting/2016-prime-cuts

    in 1 year we could save 644b dollars. in 5 years that is 1.7 trillion dollars.
    if you do that over 10 years we could pay down the national debt by 10 trillion dollars and by 20 years we could be
    almost debt free if we free spending at current levels.

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