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Why you’ll pay for Trump’s tax cut

Southern Dad said:
Young people starting out shouldn't have dependents. It's all about choices and decisions. If you have a couple making $20k then there is something wrong. There are jobs out there, go get a couple of them. Two people making minimum wage working 35 hours per week will make $26k and that is just minimum wage, less than 40 hours.
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Stupid stereotypes are stupid. Lots of reasons for non-bums to make $20k or less. Sickness, injury, plant closes down, takes a while to find a new job, student, senior working part time for fun or extra money, one or both start a new business and it takes a couple years to ramp up, or maybe it folded, farmer who works like a dog has a bad year - drought, too much rain, too good a year and prices collapsed, etc...................................................................................
 
JasperL said:
Stupid stereotypes are stupid. Lots of reasons for non-bums to make $20k or less. Sickness, injury, plant closes down, takes a while to find a new job, student, senior working part time for fun or extra money, one or both start a new business and it takes a couple years to ramp up, or maybe it folded, farmer who works like a dog has a bad year - drought, too much rain, too good a year and prices collapsed, etc...................................................................................
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Wow, what a load of excuses.
 
Southern Dad said:
I see, so you are going to try and pretend that the majority of the 47% that do not pay federal income tax are making less than $11k per year? Then maybe they need to get a second job. You know there are plenty of jobs out there. Obama fixed all that.
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Actually the reason that the 47% do not pay federal income tax is actually because they don;t make enough to qualify to pay it. For example just about every elderly person on a fixed income of social security. they paid in for years and years.. and now.. they don;t have enough income.

or its people starting out.. college students, high school students. so on and so forth.
•Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers.
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Of the working households?:
Most of these working households also pay federal income tax in other years, when their incomes are higher — which can be seen by looking at the low-income working households that receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).
•The leading study of this issue found that the majority of households that receive the EITC get it for only one or two years at a time, such as when their income drops due to a temporary layoff, and pay federal income tax in most other years. The study examined the filers who claimed the EITC at least once during an 18-year periodand found that they paid a net of several hundred billion dollars in federal income tax over that period.[10] This finding shows that while some households will receive refundable tax credits in a given year whose value may exceed their payroll tax liability, they pay significant federal income taxes over time in addition to the payroll and state and local taxes they pay each year.
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•The remainder of those who pay no income tax are primarily elderly, disabled, or students.
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https://www.cbpp.org/research/misconceptions-and-realities-about-who-pays-taxes

The facts are not your friend on this.
 
I agree that the Corporate Tax Reduction will increase the deficit massively, and the current $20 Trillion in debt will rise to even more unprecedented higher levels.

I'm equally concerned about individual taxes. I've heard arguments about families saving a few hundred per year, depending on income levels. Now let's analyze an individual who makes $1,000,000 per year. His tax rate, goes from 39.6% to 35%. He will save roughly $46,000 per year. Somebody who makes $50,000,000 per year will save a whopping $2,300,000 per year.

Any question that this plan favors the rich? Oh yes, of course Trump and Republicans state that the rich won't pay less taxes with the reduction from 39.6% to 35%, because of other changes. OKAY so let's do the other changes, but keep the rate at 39.6%. Then there would be no question.

I wrote my Congressman and Senators, and beseeched them to kill this bill.
 
Media_Truth said:
I agree that the Corporate Tax Reduction will increase the deficit massively, and the current $20 Trillion in debt will rise to even more unprecedented higher levels.

I'm equally concerned about individual taxes. I've heard arguments about families saving a few hundred per year, depending on income levels. Now let's analyze an individual who makes $1,000,000 per year. His tax rate, goes from 39.6% to 35%. He will save roughly $46,000 per year. Somebody who makes $50,000,000 per year will save a whopping $2,300,000 per year.

Any question that this plan favors the rich? Oh yes, of course Trump and Republicans state that the rich won't pay less taxes with the reduction from 39.6% to 35%, because of other changes. OKAY so let's do the other changes, but keep the rate at 39.6%. Then there would be no question.

I wrote my Congressman and Senators, and beseeched them to kill this bill.
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But it's really worse than that. Just about everyone making more than a $million or so will be reporting the VAST majority of their 'earnings' as business income from an LLC, partnership or S Corp. Those profits are currently reported on the individual return with a top rate of (rounded) 40%. The proposal is to tax that income at a max rate of 25%, so the tax savings is about 15% of reported income, or $150,000 per $million of pass thru income.

So your $50 million man will save roughly $7.5 million, not $2.3 million. This is where the real dollars are in the plan. The reduction from 39.6 to 35 will mainly only affect professional types, like entertainers, lawyers and doctors and a few CEOs (but only on a part of the average CEO's income - the bulk is typically from options and stock grants). The truly rich don't earn their money from a salary.

This is why Trump's lie about the plan hurting him is so hilariously false. He's got something like 500 pass through entities, and that's where he makes nearly ALL his income, and now all his income will be taxed at a maximum rate of 25% instead of 40%.
 
Clearly this plan is set up to affect earnings that the average Joe has no understanding of, so that it can be portrayed as fair, while all those that are positively affected keep their mouths shut about how much more money they'll be keeping.
 
Media_Truth said:
I agree that the Corporate Tax Reduction will increase the deficit massively, and the current $20 Trillion in debt will rise to even more unprecedented higher levels.

I'm equally concerned about individual taxes. I've heard arguments about families saving a few hundred per year, depending on income levels. Now let's analyze an individual who makes $1,000,000 per year. His tax rate, goes from 39.6% to 35%. He will save roughly $46,000 per year. Somebody who makes $50,000,000 per year will save a whopping $2,300,000 per year.

Any question that this plan favors the rich? Oh yes, of course Trump and Republicans state that the rich won't pay less taxes with the reduction from 39.6% to 35%, because of other changes. OKAY so let's do the other changes, but keep the rate at 39.6%. Then there would be no question.

I wrote my Congressman and Senators, and beseeched them to kill this bill.
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The rich should pay less taxes. And if you dont want more debt, suggest some cuts to spending you can live with. Im open to anything, military to food stamps.
 
JasperL said:
But it's really worse than that. Just about everyone making more than a $million or so will be reporting the VAST majority of their 'earnings' as business income from an LLC, partnership or S Corp. Those profits are currently reported on the individual return with a top rate of (rounded) 40%. The proposal is to tax that income at a max rate of 25%, so the tax savings is about 15% of reported income, or $150,000 per $million of pass thru income.

So your $50 million man will save roughly $7.5 million, not $2.3 million. This is where the real dollars are in the plan. The reduction from 39.6 to 35 will mainly only affect professional types, like entertainers, lawyers and doctors and a few CEOs (but only on a part of the average CEO's income - the bulk is typically from options and stock grants). The truly rich don't earn their money from a salary.

This is why Trump's lie about the plan hurting him is so hilariously false. He's got something like 500 pass through entities, and that's where he makes nearly ALL his income, and now all his income will be taxed at a maximum rate of 25% instead of 40%.
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Thanks for that information. And it makes sense. At one time, I thought of opening an S Corporation with some 401K money. I was going to invest in Real Estate, and have my son manage it, so he could have some income on the side. Then I found out that families cannot be involved with 401K corporations (probably because it's a loophole to pass money to them, without taxation).
 
jaeger19 said:
Actually the reason that the 47% do not pay federal income tax is actually because they don;t make enough to qualify to pay it. For example just about every elderly person on a fixed income of social security. they paid in for years and years.. and now.. they don;t have enough income.

or its people starting out.. college students, high school students. so on and so forth.


Of the working households?:




https://www.cbpp.org/research/misconceptions-and-realities-about-who-pays-taxes

The facts are not your friend on this.
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romney-47-percent---moochersjpg-8188d08e8907b2f7.jpg
 
jonny5 said:
The rich should pay less taxes.
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Why?

And if you dont want more debt, suggest some cuts to spending you can live with. Im open to anything, military to food stamps.
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The rich do not want cuts to spending. All government expenditure flows into the private sector.
 
For those that recommend cutting spending, please don't make that recommendation without suggesting where spending should be cut.
 
MTAtech said:
For those that recommend cutting spending, please don't make that recommendation without suggesting where spending should be cut.
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I did. ANYTHING. Military, NASA, food stamps, you name it. I am perfectly ok starting with a 1% across the board budget cap decrease in all line items.
 
MTAtech said:
romney-47-percent---moochersjpg-8188d08e8907b2f7.jpg
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Yeah, but we were talking about income tax, which funds everything but social security and part of medicare. Id also be curious to know how many of those who pay payroll tax get a significant portion refunded through income tax credits and welfare. I dont think anyones concerned about the elderly though. But the able bodied poor need to be contributing.
 
jonny5 said:
I did. ANYTHING. Military, NASA, food stamps, you name it. I am perfectly ok starting with a 1% across the board budget cap decrease in all line items.
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I can agree with such a policy.

94ebd96176.jpg


The U.S. economy is currently closer to y1,p1 rather than y3,p3... meaning that cuts in government expenditure won't lead to a significant reduction in real GDP. Although it is troubling that inflation remains anchored so low.
 
jonny5 said:
I did. ANYTHING. Military, NASA, food stamps, you name it. I am perfectly ok starting with a 1% across the board budget cap decrease in all line items.
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So, let me understand this. You would cut food for the poor, defense and anything else, so that the rich can get a tax-cut.

Oh, and 1% is only $40 billion dollars when the Trump proposed tax-cuts will be something like $1-2 trillion over ten years. That means that we're talking about a ~3% spending cut -- including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, plus the things we already mentioned. Since government spending is about 25% of GDP, that means we're talking about a .75% drop in GDP, not including the lost multiplier effect.

Since the Republicans are in power, all the deficit hawks are silent. So, presuming that the tax-cuts are added to the deficit, at a time of near-full employment, interest rates are likely to rise.
 
MTAtech said:
So, let me understand this. You would cut food for the poor, defense and anything else, so that the rich can get a tax-cut.

Oh, and 1% is only $40 billion dollars when the Trump proposed tax-cuts will be something like $1-2 trillion over ten years. That means that we're talking about a ~3% spending cut -- including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, plus the things we already mentioned. Since government spending is about 25% of GDP, that means we're talking about a .75% drop in GDP, not including the lost multiplier effect.

Since the Republicans are in power, all the deficit hawks are silent. So, presuming that the tax-cuts are added to the deficit, at a time of near-full employment, interest rates are likely to rise.
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I would cut food for the poor, defense, anything else, to reduce the deficit, the size of govt, the debt, and so that any taxpayer can get a tax cut, including the rich.

1% was just a start though, and its a cut to spending. Tax cuts are not spending. Youre talking about two different things.
 
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