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DACA elimination & the devastating consequences to Social Security & Medicare

dobieg said:
All your side has to do is fund the wall and border security and you get to keep your Dreamers.



Of course your politicians would hate to do that as they want to use anger over the Dreamers to help take back the Senate.


Ball's in your court.
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There are very few even among Republicans who think the wall is anything other than a hare-brained idea that will do anything for border security. It's just hairy chest beating that only impresses the paranoid and uneducated.

Trump wants a border wall, but few in Congress want to pay for it - LA Times
 
You are forgetting the fact that the 4 trillion it will cost is exactly what the government borrowed from that fund in all past years. If they would pay it back without getting it from us again, that would be ideal. Unfortunately that will never happen.
 
the BS is getting deep around here. SS and Medicare were in trouble long before Trump came along.
 
Oreo said:
There is nothing more BONE-HEADED to me, than sending kids that grew up here, and were educated here to a foreign country so they can stimulate the economy there (not here) to pay taxes there (not here.) Keeping in mind that there are dreamers all over this country that are on college campus's and in Universities.

Social Security/Medicare. Back in the 1950's average family size was 4 kids. Over the last several decades family size has been reduced to 2 or less kids. 10K babyboomers are entering social security on a daily basis, and this rate will continue for the next 9 to 10 years. Adding an additional 84 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. One working person is now supporting 3 retirees on borrowed money from China. Social Security/Medicare is the reason we're continually having to raise the debt ceiling. Right now we don't have the younger generation population in this country to support the military.

So your options are:
1. Let Social Security/Medicare go bankrupt.
2 Cut benefits to the bone.
3. Raise the age of eligibility to 75 years old.
4. Means testing (meaning take from the wealthier to give to the poorer)
5. Keep kids that grew up in this country and that were educated in this country (right here) to support these funds, while also paying Federal and State taxes while stimulating the economy.

th


Right wingers aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to economics.

RONALD REAGAN started the biggest and longest lasting economic boom period in this country. What he do differently from other Presidents? With a swipe of a pen he legalized all illegals in this country.

ronald_reagan_the_40th_president_of_the_us_1024x76 8.jpg

They came out of their hiding places, got real jobs and started paying real taxes. They opened up their own business's and hired other Americans. They bought & built homes, American cars, T.V's and electronics, furniture, appliances. They went to school & paid for college educations. They had no fear. They set off the longest lasting economic boom period in this Nation's history.


If you don't remember who Reagan was, then Doug Elmets a long time friend and former staffer of Reagan can explain it.


The next serious consquence: Migrant workers are not crossing the border to help farmers bring in their harvests which is now skyrocketing prices on beef, chicken, eggs, milk and fruit and vegi's are rotting on the vine. All due to the hateful rhetoric coming from the Right wing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/15/migration-reform-stops-farm-labor-shortage.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca.../gJQA3Rm0jV_story.html?utm_term=.a2c95e9d6ed0
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/15/migration-reform-stops-farm-labor-shortage.html

th
Click to expand...


I met a couple of these people with senate staff from Cantwell and Murray. One is studying to be a teacher and the other a nurse.
One is married to a citizen of the US and has a 3 y.o. but could be sent back any time.
We are trying to get their stories in front of the house and senate - GOP doesn't want personal stories - they might have to give a damn then.
Wonderful, smart people. What a waste to make them go back.
Completely agree with it being BONE-HEADED.
 
dobieg said:
All your side has to do is fund the wall and border security and you get to keep your Dreamers.



Of course your politicians would hate to do that as they want to use anger over the Dreamers to help take back the Senate.


Ball's in your court.
Click to expand...

LOL there are so many issues and reasons to take both the house and senate back. It's like Lay's Potato cips - you can't have just one.
 
jghiretire said:
I met a couple of these people with senate staff from Cantwell and Murray. One is studying to be a teacher and the other a nurse.
One is married to a citizen of the US and has a 3 y.o. but could be sent back any time.
We are trying to get their stories in front of the house and senate - GOP doesn't want personal stories - they might have to give a damn then.
Wonderful, smart people. What a waste to make them go back.
Completely agree with it being BONE-HEADED.
Click to expand...

I knew a woman from Columbia that was a college professor and it took her 15 years to become a U.S. Citizen. A lot of people just assume that any immigrant to this country is low end educated when they may be quite the opposite. They come in every profession--some of them in the top of their fields.
 
MaggieD said:
There aren't enough heartless. Never.going.to.happen.

This is yet ANOTHER bill that should sail right through without anything else attached to it. But THAT would be uncharacteristic of Congress, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

If Democrats had their way, the bill would have 800,000 US passports stapled to it so they could vote in 2018. ;)
 
Oreo said:
There is nothing more BONE-HEADED to me, than sending kids that grew up here, and were educated here to a foreign country so they can stimulate the economy there (not here) to pay taxes there (not here.) Keeping in mind that there are dreamers all over this country that are on college campus's and in Universities.

Social Security/Medicare. Back in the 1950's average family size was 4 kids. Over the last several decades family size has been reduced to 2 or less kids. 10K babyboomers are entering social security on a daily basis, and this rate will continue for the next 9 to 10 years. Adding an additional 84 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. One working person is now supporting 3 retirees on borrowed money from China. Social Security/Medicare is the reason we're continually having to raise the debt ceiling. Right now we don't have the younger generation population in this country to support the military.

So your options are:
1. Let Social Security/Medicare go bankrupt.
2 Cut benefits to the bone.
3. Raise the age of eligibility to 75 years old.
4. Means testing (meaning take from the wealthier to give to the poorer)
5. Keep kids that grew up in this country and that were educated in this country (right here) to support these funds, while also paying Federal and State taxes while stimulating the economy.

th


Right wingers aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to economics.

RONALD REAGAN started the biggest and longest lasting economic boom period in this country. What he do differently from other Presidents? With a swipe of a pen he legalized all illegals in this country.

ronald_reagan_the_40th_president_of_the_us_1024x76 8.jpg

They came out of their hiding places, got real jobs and started paying real taxes. They opened up their own business's and hired other Americans. They bought & built homes, American cars, T.V's and electronics, furniture, appliances. They went to school & paid for college educations. They had no fear. They set off the longest lasting economic boom period in this Nation's history.


If you don't remember who Reagan was, then Doug Elmets a long time friend and former staffer of Reagan can explain it.


The next serious consquence: Migrant workers are not crossing the border to help farmers bring in their harvests which is now skyrocketing prices on beef, chicken, eggs, milk and fruit and vegi's are rotting on the vine. All due to the hateful rhetoric coming from the Right wing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/15/migration-reform-stops-farm-labor-shortage.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca.../gJQA3Rm0jV_story.html?utm_term=.a2c95e9d6ed0
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/15/migration-reform-stops-farm-labor-shortage.html

th
Click to expand...


I haven't met anyone yet who thinks the dreamers should be deported. Trump gave the congress a deadline to put it into law presumable motivated by its inability to do its job. They just need to write the law and pass it. It should be a no-brainer. Yet........
 
fmw said:
I haven't met anyone yet who thinks the dreamers should be deported. Trump gave the congress a deadline to put it into law presumable motivated by its inability to do its job. They just need to write the law and pass it. It should be a no-brainer. Yet........
Click to expand...

Now you have. Can you explain why someone who violated federal immigration law on or before 6/15/2007 should be treated differently than one who did so on or after 6/16/2007?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Now you have. Can you explain why someone who violated federal immigration law before 6/15/2007 should be treated differently than one who did so on or after 6/16/2007?
Click to expand...

Of course. They didn't break any laws. Their parents did. Punishing them for their parents' misdeeds is illogical and unamerican. Punish the parents if you like. That, at least, would make sense. Punishing the dreamers makes none at all. The dreamers should be given permanent resident status and allowed to go through the normal path to citizenship if they choose to do so. That is the path my mother followed to become a citizen after leaving Cuba.
 
fmw said:
Of course. They didn't break any laws. Their parents did. Punishing them for their parents' misdeeds is illogical and unamerican. Punish the parents if you like. That, at least, would make sense. Punishing the dreamers makes none at all. The dreamers should be given permanent resident status and allowed to go through the normal path to citizenship if they choose to do so. That is the path my mother followed to become a citizen after leaving Cuba.
Click to expand...

You did not answer the question in the post to which you replied. You favor deporting the parents and doing what, exactly, with the minor children that they illegally brought into the country?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You did not answer the question in the post to which you replied. You favor deporting the parents and doing what, exactly, with the minor children that they illegally brought into the country?
Click to expand...

I favor giving them permanent resident status as I said. If their parents are deported and they are children, their parents can and should take them with them. If they are adults (most of them are) they can make the choice to leave or stay themselves. It isn't complicated at all. My issue is that punishing people for the activities of other people is illogical and unamerican.
 
fmw said:
I favor giving them permanent resident status as I said. If their parents are deported and they are children, their parents can and should take them with them. If they are adults (most of them are) they can make the choice to leave or stay themselves. It isn't complicated at all. My issue is that punishing people for the activities of other people is illogical and unamerican.
Click to expand...

I will repeat the question that you seem to refuse to answer:

Can you explain why someone who violated federal immigration law on or before 6/15/2007 should be treated differently than one who did so on or after 6/16/2007?

My issue is with rewarding those that broke the immigration law while insisting that those who did not illegally enter (or overstay a visa) must patiently wait in their homelands. You can't have open borders for some and not for others.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
I will repeat the question that you seem to refuse to answer:

Can you explain why someone who violated federal immigration law on or before 6/15/2007 should be treated differently than one who did so on or after 6/16/2007?

My issue is with rewarding those that broke the immigration law while insisting that those who did not illegally enter (or overstay a visa) must patiently wait in their homelands. You can't have open borders for some and not for others.
Click to expand...

What open border? Their parents came illegally, not through an open border.

Your point is correct. No argument. But those in their homelands aren't the issue. The issue is with those already here through no fault of their own. We haven't done anything as a country to prevent illegal immigration effectively. Water under the bridge in terms of the dreamers. I agree that we should stop illegal immigration in its tracks but that hasn't happened. We need to deal with the current reality. No solution is perfect. The one I support makes the most sense to most people.
 
Oreo said:
I knew a woman from Columbia that was a college professor and it took her 15 years to become a U.S. Citizen. A lot of people just assume that any immigrant to this country is low end educated when they may be quite the opposite. They come in every profession--some of them in the top of their fields.
Click to expand...

You are confusing immigrants with illegal immigrants. Most of us descend from immigrants. My mother gained citizenship in five years. I can't imagine why she was forced to wait 15 years. I suspect it was her doing.
 
fmw said:
What open border? Their parents came illegally, not through an open border.

Your point is correct. No argument. But those in their homelands aren't the issue. The issue is with those already here through no fault of their own. We haven't done anything as a country to prevent illegal immigration effectively. Water under the bridge in terms of the dreamers. I agree that we should stop illegal immigration in its tracks but that hasn't happened. We need to deal with the current reality. No solution is perfect. The one I support makes the most sense to most people.
Click to expand...

Since you refuse to answer my simple and direct question then we are through discussing this issue. HAND
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Since you refuse to answer my simple and direct question then we are through discussing this issue. HAND
Click to expand...

That you didn't like my answer doesn't suggest that I didn't answer.
 
fmw said:
That you didn't like my answer doesn't suggest that I didn't answer.
Click to expand...

My question was the selection of the official "dreamers" must have entered by 6/15/2007 and how ridiculous that is which you never addressed.
 
It's really sad to see the continuing dominance of Reaganolatry.

The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before -- and the poverty rate had actually risen.

The growth under Clinton was higher than that under Reagan and included increases in prosperity to the middle class.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
My question was the selection of the official "dreamers" must have entered by 6/15/2007 and how ridiculous that is which you never addressed.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. You think dreamers should be all foreign offspring of illegal aliens? I do see the problem. It would tend to motivate more illegal immigration. What a mess. I guess it would make sense to eliminate the dreamer program and simply make individual decisions about whom should or should not be allowed to stay as residents. Perhaps the parents should be barred from getting green cards and the offspring should be able to apply for one since they didn't really ijmmigrate illegally. Another option would be to depart the whole family but fast track immigration applications from dreamers.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Since you refuse to answer my simple and direct question then we are through discussing this issue.

If you tell us what your "simple and direct question" is, then someone can give an erudite answer.
Click to expand...
 
ttwtt78640 said:
All wonderful arguments for allowing legal immigration but not valid arguments for open borders or granting head of line privileges to those that jumped the border or overstayed a visa. That is flipping the middle digit to those (fools?) that are patiently waiting in their homelands for pemission to legally enter the US.

Using only those "dreamers" that are now contributing adults (by working illegally?) is also dishonest - the DACA policy is enetered as a minor and remained here five years which includes many minors that pay no taxes and use plenty of services. What do you expect the economic impact of 6 to 15 year old "dreamers" is going to be when their illegal alien parents are deported? Oh yeah, that means we need DAPA too. ;)
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Nah, I'm a legal immigrant and you don't speak for me.

I (nor my family, nor many other immigrants I know) have no issue with dreamers. I knew a few when I lived in Phoenix and one now I live in Boston and they're a part of my community.

Please don't try to assume what is a middle finger to me or not. You don't speak for me and my experiences and I resent you using them as a political cudgel.
 
fmw said:
I haven't met anyone yet who thinks the dreamers should be deported. Trump gave the congress a deadline to put it into law presumable motivated by its inability to do its job. They just need to write the law and pass it. It should be a no-brainer. Yet........
Click to expand...

You saw what Republicans did with Obamacare after campaigning on it for 7 years. Nothing. This will be the same.

In fact, Paul Ryan begged Trump not to scrap DACA along with many CEO's across this country. Why? Because Paul Ryan knows there's too many tea party extremists in the house that will never support any immigration bill.
Ryan asks Trump to hold off on scrapping DACA - CNNPolitics
 
fmw said:
You are confusing immigrants with illegal immigrants. Most of us descend from immigrants. My mother gained citizenship in five years. I can't imagine why she was forced to wait 15 years. I suspect it was her doing.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think a college professor did anything wrong--but it did take her 15 years to become a U.S. Citizen. In fact, I have never heard of anyone that became a citizen in only 5 years.
 
Oreo said:
You saw what Republicans did with Obamacare after campaigning on it for 7 years. Nothing. This will be the same.

In fact, Paul Ryan begged Trump not to scrap DACA along with many CEO's across this country. Why? Because Paul Ryan knows there's too many tea party extremists in the house that will never support any immigration bill.
Ryan asks Trump to hold off on scrapping DACA - CNNPolitics
Click to expand...

Trump is facing the dilemma Obama did. He faces a do nothing congress. While I like that personally, I have to say that government by pen and phone is terrible because it gets upended by the next president. There is no continuity. Lack of continuity is bad for the economy. Given that, then let's work on cutting the government down to size to improve its efficiency.
 
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