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My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

ataraxia said:
Being thoughtful and rational means that you adjust your actions to the situation at hand, not that you do the same thing automatically every time ("small government always", "never get involved in international affairs", etc...). That's silly. God gave us a brain for a reason. Like it says in the good book, there is a season for everything under the sun. The reason that this kind of mindset seems to me to be irrational is that this formula is used in an unthinking way for every situation which comes up.

A good government, a stable one, a functional one, is not one which blindly sticks to such easy formulas, but knows when to step in in an aggressive and muscular way, and when to step back and let people, or the free market, or what have you, do its thing. Sure it requires lots of information, keeping your eyes and ears always open to what is happening, of being open to various options being proposed, of staying mentally and ideologically limber and flexible.
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Well.. I would suggest that what you are describing is the difference between a conservative.. who wants a small and efficient government.

and a libertarian who wants small government at all costs.

A conservative recognizes that say the government has to be involved in environmental issues because the environment doesn;t follow state lines. We understand that an EPA is necessary for a safe environment for people to live and for business to thrive. It does not do my business any good if the mining company upriver from me poisons my cattle's drinking water.
However, we believe that EPA should only be big enough to do the job effectively and efficiently. On the other hand.. we don;t need the EPA requiring me to have methane monitors on my cows buttholes to measure the methane they produce in flatulence.
Government power can be abused and usually its abuse is on those that can least defend themselves.
 
ataraxia said:
Being thoughtful and rational means that you adjust your actions to the situation at hand, not that you do the same thing automatically every time ("small government always", "never get involved in international affairs", etc...). That's silly. God gave us a brain for a reason. Like it says in the good book, there is a season for everything under the sun. The reason that this kind of mindset seems to me to be irrational is that this formula is used in an unthinking way for every situation which comes up.

A good government, a stable one, a functional one, is not one which blindly sticks to such easy formulas, but knows when to step in in an aggressive and muscular way, and when to step back and let people, or the free market, or what have you, do its thing. Sure it requires lots of information, keeping your eyes and ears always open to what is happening, of being open to various options being proposed, of staying mentally and ideologically limber and flexible.
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Well.. I would suggest that what you are describing is the difference between a conservative.. who wants a small and efficient government.

and a libertarian who wants small government at all costs.

A conservative recognizes that say the government has to be involved in environmental issues because the environment doesn;t follow state lines. We understand that an EPA is necessary for a safe environment for people to live and for business to thrive. It does not do my business any good if the mining company upriver from me poisons my cattle's drinking water.
However, we believe that EPA should only be big enough to do the job effectively and efficiently. On the other hand.. we don;t need the EPA requiring me to have methane monitors on my cows buttholes to measure the methane they produce in flatulence.
Government power can be abused and usually its abuse is on those that can least defend themselves.
 
ataraxia said:
Well enough of them that the party which they have chosen to represent them, the Republican Party, gives us the likes of Sarah Palins, Michele Bachmans, Rick Santorums, Rick Perrys, GW Bushes, Donald Trumps, the Koch brothers, etc... So how is that not the party of a small handful of exploiters and large herds of exploitees?
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I could also list a dozen Democrat politicians and the jail terms they are currently serving... And by your logic, this is evidence of the corruption inherent to Democrats as voters. Just look at who they pick to represent them.

Do you not see the unreasonableness of such a sampling?
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
I could also list a dozen Democrat politicians and the jail terms they are currently serving... And by your logic, this is evidence of the corruption inherent to Democrats as voters. Just look at who they pick to represent them.

Do you not see the unreasonableness of such a sampling?
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Both Dems and Repubs. The sampling looks to be solid. And forget corruption, think about the war crimes, the terrorism, the baby slaughter, the carpet bombing, the raping, the ... .
 
camlok said:
I don't have the foggiest notion what your post was even about. As I said, and don't take this the wrong way, you aren't that important. I have bigger fish to fry.
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...which clearly explains why you responded to me in this thread...

There's that cognitive dissonance again.
 
camlok said:
I point out that western democratic principles are largely bull**** and you provide me with examples that illustrate my point.

I refer you once again to the Chomsky quote. Which you still won't get because your conservative thinking pulls you to the life long brainwashing you have had and nothing is harder to overcome than that.
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Yeah.. I don't think that you really have pointed out that western democratic principles are largely BS.

Spend some time in a country with an outright dictatorship, Like say North Korea,, or a Peoples democratic dictatorship.. like china or the former soviet union...

And I think you enjoy the freedoms that you have under a western democracy.. just a bit more.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
...which clearly explains why you responded to me in this thread...

There's that cognitive dissonance again.
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Again, you mistakenly think too much of your importance. I had no idea the first post, the one from which you are begging for attention, was from this thread.

You don't seem to understand 'cognitive dissonance', which is something that should be addressed to the USians, for whom cognitive dissonance is as American as apple pie and killing babies.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah.. I don't think that you really have pointed out that western democratic principles are largely BS.

Spend some time in a country with an outright dictatorship, Like say North Korea,, or a Peoples democratic dictatorship.. like china or the former soviet union...

And I think you enjoy the freedoms that you have under a western democracy.. just a bit more.
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There's that stultifying American brainwashing kicking in again. You might think you are having a delicious hair pie when you compare it to a turd pie but that is simply personal delusion.

I again refer you to the Chomsky quote. This time try reading it.
 
camlok said:
Again, you mistakenly think too much of your importance. I had no idea the first post, the one from which you are begging for attention, was from this thread.

You don't seem to understand 'cognitive dissonance', which is something that should be addressed to the USians, for whom cognitive dissonance is as American as apple pie and killing babies.
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"You are so unimportant, I feel the need to keep responding."

Mutually exclusive premises are contradictory; the inability to give one up causes a state of cognitive dissonance.

Now show me how unimportant I am by continuing to respond.
 
KevinKohler said:
Don't sweat it. I was a hardcore libertarian as well. In fact, you should be proud. Your kid has, at a young age, taken enough interest in politics at such a young to construct his own ideas about right and wrong (politically/economically) without relying on you...his beliefs diverge from you.

I was hard core libertarian all through college, and a good ways into young adult. Now I'm a centrist...the only logical choice!
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I had a youthful brush with Libertarianism, myself.

I think it's rather common with late teens through twenty-somethings, particularly guys. I hate to call it selfish or lacking in compassion, but it has some similarities to me in that when one is at their physical strongest they are advocating for a sort of 'dog eat dog' world.

Then with a few years, a wife, and a couple kids, that teen-age feeling of invulnerability wears off. The fragility and vulnerability of others around you and dependent upon you - your wife, kids, and aging parents - begins to unleash more compassion to their and other's plight.
 
jaeger19 said:
However, we believe that EPA should only be big enough to do the job effectively and efficiently. On the other hand.. we don;t need the EPA requiring me to have methane monitors on my cows buttholes to measure the methane they produce in flatulence.
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Not necessarily your cattle per se, but it isn't the Clivus Multrum Bundys of the world who can decide that.
 
camlok said:
There's that stultifying American brainwashing kicking in again. You might think you are having a delicious hair pie when you compare it to a turd pie but that is simply personal delusion.

I again refer you to the Chomsky quote. This time try reading it.
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Did read it.. it has no relevance to this discussion.

Hmm "stultifying American Brainwashing"..interesting.

Tell me.. have you lived and spent time in North Korea, or the former soviet union.. or China?

I have a bit. But please.. explain to us all how the poor and middle class in those countries have more say in government than in the US.
 
camlok said:
Not necessarily your cattle per se, but it isn't the Clivus Multrum Bundys of the world who can decide that.
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Yeah.. your post really doesn;t make sense
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah.. your post really doesn;t make sense
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Living the cloistered life of a conservative, free from science, critical thinking and the world around you, I understand why you don't understand.
 
camlok said:
Living the cloistered life of a conservative, free from science, critical thinking and the world around you, I understand why you don't understand.
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That's funny. Doesn't make any sense either (especially when you consider who you are posting to) .. but its amusing.

Offer still stands though...


Make the case the China, the former soviet union and north Korea, offer (offered) more freedoms to the poor and middle class than countries like the US that indulge in the fantasy of western democracy.
 
MrWonka said:
I found the same thing to be true when I went to college. I know I had a lot of professors who likely leaned to the left, but you couldn't really tell based on the material they taught in class. They were all very good at not letting their personal feelings bleed into the course work. Conversely the few conservative professors I had seemed to feel like it was their duty to try and undocternate kids they assumed were getting endocternated in other classes.

Conservatives frequently like to justify their horrible behavior by convincing themselves liberals are doing it so they have to as well. Fox News justifies it's ridiculous right wing bias, by asserting all the other news outlets are out to get them. Conservatives justify voter fraud and election rigging on the false belief that voter fraud is the only reason liberals win. Conservative professors don't seem to have any issue with preaching right wing garbage on the delusional belief that they are out numbered by liberal professors who are doing the same thing. Conservatives like Trump constantly lie and justify it because they think they have to lie in order to counter liberal lies that aren't actually being told.

In psychology it's called projection. Conservatives assume that liberals just think and act like they do, then use that to justify their own terrible behavior. One of the weaknesses liberals have is the reverse. They assume conservatives think rationally because liberals think rationally so they try to make rational arguments that get ignored by rabbit hate mongers who value confidence over truth.
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Oh please.
 
Kushinator said:
How insightful!!! :roll:
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How insightful!!! :roll:

I love it when you attack me because it shows how much you can't refute what I say and the only ammunition you can shoot are insults.
 
Winston said:
I'm taking an economics course this semester. It's Econ 110. The professor gave us a supplementary book to read along with the textbook. It's called, "How an Economy Grows and Crashes". The introduction is basically just 12 pages of the author bashing Keynesian economics and going on a rant about spending your way to prosperity.

A curious observation emerged before me as well.

Flagrant "liberal indoctrination" in our colleges and universities, the indoctrination that conservatives assert to be the reason why kids today aren't going for conservatism, yeah that, is all the way absent from this class. I had an idea by the way my professor lectured that he disapproves of old John Maynard Keynes, but reading the intro in this supplementary book just confirmed it.

Should be a fun semester as I divulge more of my personal opinions during in-class discussions.
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The problem with the whole "liberal indoctrination" theory is that the most left-wing forces tend to be within the student body itself, and it also disregards how often there's extremely right-wing people in academia. Academia is filled to the brim with people who love corporations (a lot of grants come from corporations) and general professional-class sentiments towards the government. So yeah, you're not necessarily going to get read a lecture in how awful gay people are, but you're definitely going to get a professor who's an ardent supporter of neoliberalism (e.g. your professor).

This whole "all professors are Leftists ****lords" is predominantly in the minds of conservatives who never went to college or are remembering how liberal their cohorts are/were.
 
camlok said:
Living the cloistered life of a conservative, free from science, critical thinking and the world around you, I understand why you don't understand.
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Well a string of insults always makes for a strong argument. ;)
 
camlok said:
Living the cloistered life of a conservative, free from science, critical thinking and the world around you, I understand why you don't understand.
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Living the life of a liberal, never questioning, never considering you might be wrong, always regurgitating the company line. Follow the leader. I understand why you don't understand.
 
Winston said:
I'm taking an economics course this semester. It's Econ 110. The professor gave us a supplementary book to read along with the textbook. It's called, "How an Economy Grows and Crashes". The introduction is basically just 12 pages of the author bashing Keynesian economics and going on a rant about spending your way to prosperity.

A curious observation emerged before me as well.

Flagrant "liberal indoctrination" in our colleges and universities, the indoctrination that conservatives assert to be the reason why kids today aren't going for conservatism, yeah that, is all the way absent from this class. I had an idea by the way my professor lectured that he disapproves of old John Maynard Keynes, but reading the intro in this supplementary book just confirmed it.

Should be a fun semester as I divulge more of my personal opinions during in-class discussions.
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Those of us who went to college for business rarely see the "liberal bias" the right often talks about. I do not believe I had an economics or finance professor who didn't lean, or wasn't adamantly conservative. This is because the principals of economics are rooted in, what are now, conservative ideologies. Also finance and economics professors don't really care about hot button social issues, unless you can prove them with data. Keynes has it's merits. I have an issue with a one-size fits all ideology for anything, especially economics related.
 
Waddy said:
Living the life of a liberal, never questioning, never considering you might be wrong, always regurgitating the company line. Follow the leader. I understand why you don't understand.
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I would say this goes for anyone who makes such generalizing statements. How could all liberals not think or question? I see your replying to a similar statement, and I'd say the same sort of crass tribalism could be applied to that opinion giver as well.
 
nothanks700 said:
I would say this goes for anyone who makes such generalizing statements. How could all liberals not think or question? I see your replying to a similar statement, and I'd say the same sort of crass tribalism could be applied to that opinion giver as well.
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sarcasm. sorry you missed it. and I agree with you.
 
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