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Thread: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

  1. #131
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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston View Post
    I'm taking an economics course this semester. It's Econ 110. The professor gave us a supplementary book to read along with the textbook. It's called, "How an Economy Grows and Crashes". The introduction is basically just 12 pages of the author bashing Keynesian economics and going on a rant about spending your way to prosperity.

    A curious observation emerged before me as well.

    Flagrant "liberal indoctrination" in our colleges and universities, the indoctrination that conservatives assert to be the reason why kids today aren't going for conservatism, yeah that, is all the way absent from this class. I had an idea by the way my professor lectured that he disapproves of old John Maynard Keynes, but reading the intro in this supplementary book just confirmed it.

    Should be a fun semester as I divulge more of my personal opinions during in-class discussions.
    My guess is that he doesn't have an actual clue about Keynes, and his writings and his theories. My guess is your professor is bashing only what he THINKS that Keynesian theory is about.

    Your post reminds me of a presenter at a continuing education conference who was continuously bashing the techniques and theories of a certain former clinician. (one who 30 years ago was considered an innovator in the field.)..

    Finally I could not keep silent and stated... "you know.. when you say that "(this person) said this.. and thought this.".... you are completely wrong." " I know for a fact that this person would NEVER in a MILLION years have made the statements you are attributing to them"...

    The presenter challenged me and said "well how would you know".. I said because " I knew this person on a personal basis as well as studied under them"..

    The presenter did not have a clue about what they were talking about. And I would bet dollars to donuts if you had your professor ACTUALLY state what particular problems he had with Keynesian theory.. I would bet that he would get it all wrong and attribute things to Keynesian theory that Keynes never actually believed.

    I would suggest that you in concert with this fellows teachings.. actually do some research on Keynesian theory.. as straight from Keynes writings as you can. I think you may find that he is in agreement with Keynes far more than he is in disagreement.

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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    You responded to this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    It's not simply a fault of derivatives regulation he's admitting to; the admission goes substantially beyond that.

    Dealing with people in the top 1% (and higher) regularly in my day to day business (commercial real estate and finance), I definitely see that the majority of them who express political and economic views tend to lean Austrian or something similar if not quite altogether there, for what appears to be ultimately and largely self-interested reasons. A couple of the more honest ones I've spoken with also find it hilarious that there are poor and middle class people foolish enough to champion and promote these sorts of ideas against their own best interests; one even went so far as to call them 'useful idiots', and that he welcomed their help in making him even better off at their expense, because why not?

    I live comfortably myself, but dealing constantly with people like this, who are either lost in personal bubbles of rationalization, self-promotion, congratulation and denial, or who knowingly and brutally embrace their self-serving beliefs, saying cruel and callous things make my stomach turn and my temper surge has never made me more resolute in opposing them politically, regardless of what it might cost me.
    I quoted this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    You're filling in a whole lot of dots that are not there, simply based on your prejudice.
    Please do not attempt to pull me down to your level.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #133
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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    That would likely be because the field is dominated by republican/supply side teachers.
    That isn't an explanation.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That isn't an explanation.
    It's an educated guess.
    "Half full or half empty doesn't matter. What matters is, you've only got half a glass...so what are you going to do about it?" - Me
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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You responded to this post:

    I quoted this post:

    Please do not attempt to pull me down to your level.
    You were already at the bottom.

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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston View Post
    Flagrant "liberal indoctrination" in our colleges and universities, the indoctrination that conservatives assert to be the reason why kids today aren't going for conservatism, yeah that, is all the way absent from this class.
    I found the same thing to be true when I went to college. I know I had a lot of professors who likely leaned to the left, but you couldn't really tell based on the material they taught in class. They were all very good at not letting their personal feelings bleed into the course work. Conversely the few conservative professors I had seemed to feel like it was their duty to try and undocternate kids they assumed were getting endocternated in other classes.

    Conservatives frequently like to justify their horrible behavior by convincing themselves liberals are doing it so they have to as well. Fox News justifies it's ridiculous right wing bias, by asserting all the other news outlets are out to get them. Conservatives justify voter fraud and election rigging on the false belief that voter fraud is the only reason liberals win. Conservative professors don't seem to have any issue with preaching right wing garbage on the delusional belief that they are out numbered by liberal professors who are doing the same thing. Conservatives like Trump constantly lie and justify it because they think they have to lie in order to counter liberal lies that aren't actually being told.

    In psychology it's called projection. Conservatives assume that liberals just think and act like they do, then use that to justify their own terrible behavior. One of the weaknesses liberals have is the reverse. They assume conservatives think rationally because liberals think rationally so they try to make rational arguments that get ignored by rabbit hate mongers who value confidence over truth.

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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston View Post
    I'm taking an economics course this semester. It's Econ 110. The professor gave us a supplementary book to read along with the textbook. It's called, "How an Economy Grows and Crashes". The introduction is basically just 12 pages of the author bashing Keynesian economics and going on a rant about spending your way to prosperity.

    A curious observation emerged before me as well.

    Flagrant "liberal indoctrination" in our colleges and universities, the indoctrination that conservatives assert to be the reason why kids today aren't going for conservatism, yeah that, is all the way absent from this class. I had an idea by the way my professor lectured that he disapproves of old John Maynard Keynes, but reading the intro in this supplementary book just confirmed it.

    Should be a fun semester as I divulge more of my personal opinions during in-class discussions.
    I rarely has hardcore liberal professors that ever tried to indoctrinate the class. Of all professors I've had the Libertarians were typically the most apt to push their views on the class.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I found the same thing to be true when I went to college. I know I had a lot of professors who likely leaned to the left, but you couldn't really tell based on the material they taught in class. They were all very good at not letting their personal feelings bleed into the course work. Conversely the few conservative professors I had seemed to feel like it was their duty to try and undocternate kids they assumed were getting endocternated in other classes.

    Conservatives frequently like to justify their horrible behavior by convincing themselves liberals are doing it so they have to as well. Fox News justifies it's ridiculous right wing bias, by asserting all the other news outlets are out to get them. Conservatives justify voter fraud and election rigging on the false belief that voter fraud is the only reason liberals win. Conservative professors don't seem to have any issue with preaching right wing garbage on the delusional belief that they are out numbered by liberal professors who are doing the same thing. Conservatives like Trump constantly lie and justify it because they think they have to lie in order to counter liberal lies that aren't actually being told.

    In psychology it's called projection. Conservatives assume that liberals just think and act like they do, then use that to justify their own terrible behavior. One of the weaknesses liberals have is the reverse. They assume conservatives think rationally because liberals think rationally so they try to make rational arguments that get ignored by rabbit hate mongers who value confidence over truth.
    This is actually a very insightful and thought provoking post. Thank you for that.

    I used to assume that the conservative worldview was something rational, and so by engaging them, either I could finally understand them better, or I might be able to offer them better information and arguments to get them to change their views. But I have come to realize that conservatism is not about rationality at all. It is about a handful of extremely powerful and wealthy people at the top who want even more power and wealth and don't think that any amount of such inequality is ever going to be socially destabilizing and unsustainable, and a large group of, how shall one say to be politically correct?....well, PC is out these days anyway, so I'll come out and say it... CATTLE, which can be provoked to stampede in just about any direction you like if you make some loud noises and wave red flags at them enough, exploiting their massive levels of ignorance, prejudices, fears, misunderstandings, and paranoias. It's not about information and rationality at all. It's about habits and traditions, no matter how wrong or dysfunctional, visceral prejudices and hatreds and fears.

    That makes it much harder to address, of course, than if it was just a simple issue of just more facts and more rational arguments. But at least we are not barking up the wrong tree thinking that only if I give them a few more facts they will come around to accepting evolutionary biology, or climate change science, or that nations with strong social safety nets and without too much inequality tend to be more stable, or that separation of church and state is actually a good thing, etc...

  9. #139
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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    This is actually a very insightful and thought provoking post. Thank you for that.

    I used to assume that the conservative worldview was something rational, and so by engaging them, either I could finally understand them better, or I might be able to offer them better information and arguments to get them to change their views. But I have come to realize that conservatism is not about rationality at all. It is about a handful of extremely powerful and wealthy people at the top who want even more power and wealth and don't think that any amount of such inequality is ever going to be socially destabilizing and unsustainable, and a large group of, how shall one say to be politically correct?....well, PC is out these days anyway, so I'll come out and say it... CATTLE, which can be provoked to stampede in just about any direction you like if you make some loud noises and wave red flags at them enough, exploiting their massive levels of ignorance, prejudices, fears, misunderstandings, and paranoias. It's not about information and rationality at all. It's about habits and traditions, no matter how wrong or dysfunctional, visceral prejudices and hatreds and fears.

    That makes it much harder to address, of course, than if it was just a simple issue of just more facts and more rational arguments. But at least we are not barking up the wrong tree thinking that only if I give them a few more facts they will come around to accepting evolutionary biology, or climate change science, or that nations with strong social safety nets and without too much inequality tend to be more stable, or that separation of church and state is actually a good thing, etc...
    The problem with labels is that they often get misused and can often be misleading. You are not really describing "conservatives".. you are really describing right wing folks (an accurate descripter really would be right wing liberal).

    Lets think through this rationally. What does a "conservative" view of government mean? Well a conservative view would mean a limited government, it would mean one that did not do wild swings or try to involve itself deeply in the lives of people. A conservative view of world politics would be say things like not wanting to be the worlds policeman. A conservative view of government finance would be fiscal responsibility and running it within its means.

    Think about it..

    If you said " that man is conservative with his money".. would you mean that he is irrational with his money? That he spends widely and without thought? That he is "cattle that can be stampeded into any direction'?
    No.. conservative does not mean that. what if you said "this person is liberal with his money"... what would that mean?

    the point being that most people that are truly conservative ARE very rational and thought out people. That's kind of the definition of conservative... not prone to wild swings.

    I really don;t understand how Conservative suddenly meant something completely different because some of these folks identifying as conservative or being called conservative are anything but.

    How can you belief in smaller limited government when you think the government should decide who you can marry, and what medical procedures you can have?
    How can you belief in not being the worlds policeman and then want our military to intervene everywhere there is conflict?
    How can you belief in a fiscally responsible government and cut taxes to the point of running huge deficits, while you spend on a military that can blow up the world 7 times over?

    the point being is don;t fall into the trap of simply assigning labels to people.

  10. #140
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    Re: My Economics Professor Hates John Maynard Keynes

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    This is actually a very insightful and thought provoking post. Thank you for that.

    I used to assume that the conservative worldview was something rational, and so by engaging them, either I could finally understand them better, or I might be able to offer them better information and arguments to get them to change their views. But I have come to realize that conservatism is not about rationality at all. It is about a handful of extremely powerful and wealthy people at the top who want even more power and wealth and don't think that any amount of such inequality is ever going to be socially destabilizing and unsustainable, and a large group of, how shall one say to be politically correct?....well, PC is out these days anyway, so I'll come out and say it... CATTLE, which can be provoked to stampede in just about any direction you like if you make some loud noises and wave red flags at them enough, exploiting their massive levels of ignorance, prejudices, fears, misunderstandings, and paranoias. It's not about information and rationality at all. It's about habits and traditions, no matter how wrong or dysfunctional, visceral prejudices and hatreds and fears.

    That makes it much harder to address, of course, than if it was just a simple issue of just more facts and more rational arguments. But at least we are not barking up the wrong tree thinking that only if I give them a few more facts they will come around to accepting evolutionary biology, or climate change science, or that nations with strong social safety nets and without too much inequality tend to be more stable, or that separation of church and state is actually a good thing, etc...
    All conservatives?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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