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Airports?

Lord Tammerlain said:
I would expect because the US does not need new airports, just renovating and expanding of current ones

China on the other hand needs new airports because of the growth in air traffic in China over the last 30 years.
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My thought exactly. I don't remember the exact number but there's something like 50 very large hub airports in the country (JFK or Hartsfield sized). Add to that something 400 secondary airports - those that have carrier service but aren't JFK sized. If you want through in General Aviation airports, the number of airports goes up to almost 20,000. Most of those can't take carrier traffic but some can.

We have enough airports. What's needed is upgrades. They're finally modernizing LGA in NY - I was just there this morning. Traffic's a nightmare with all the construction but the airport is seriously dilapidated. A

As well we could use more parallel runways to facilitate simultaneous take off and landing operations.
 
PeteEU said:
Airports are expensive and a modern day one, needs land.... lots of free land not something that is available near most US cities these days. Then again dont really need new airports, since the air highways are full to capacity as it is.
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It's not the airways that are full. It's the runways that are.
 
Gaius46 said:
My thought exactly. I don't remember the exact number but there's something like 50 very large hub airports in the country (JFK or Hartsfield sized). Add to that something 400 secondary airports - those that have carrier service but aren't JFK sized. If you want through in General Aviation airports, the number of airports goes up to almost 20,000. Most of those can't take carrier traffic but some can.

We have enough airports. What's needed is upgrades. They're finally modernizing LGA in NY - I was just there this morning. Traffic's a nightmare with all the construction but the airport is seriously dilapidated. A

As well we could use more parallel runways to facilitate simultaneous take off and landing operations.
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LGA is nasty, mostly because it is very constrained for land, and the runways are not long enough. Old airports like LGA and DCA are always going to be too small. Other side of the coin, the disaster Mid America Airport outside of St. Louis has been mostly empty for years, its big, its a former AF base, but no one wants to go there.

In Phoenix we are lucky, Sky Harbor is a wonderful airport, and is being upgraded again, and about 35 miles away is Gateway Airport, another converted AF base.
 
beefheart said:
LGA is nasty, mostly because it is very constrained for land, and the runways are not long enough. Old airports like LGA and DCA are always going to be too small. Other side of the coin, the disaster Mid America Airport outside of St. Louis has been mostly empty for years, its big, its a former AF base, but no one wants to go there.

In Phoenix we are lucky, Sky Harbor is a wonderful airport, and is being upgraded again, and about 35 miles away is Gateway Airport, another converted AF base.
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LGA is old and outdated but I love it. I grew about a half mile from the threshold of rwy 4 and about a 1/4 mile to the east of the final approach path. I spent hours looking out my parent's dining room window at the 727s, L1011s, DC9s and 10s on final approach. That more than anything made me want to be a pilot.

LGA's runways - they're in the 6000-7000' range - are as long as Farmingdale's, where my partners and I kept our plane when we owned it. FRG is a GA field so yeah LGA's runways are short, but on the other hand it gives the pilots a chance to practice their short field technique :)
 
Gaius46 said:
LGA is old and outdated but I love it. I grew about a half mile from the threshold of rwy 4 and about a 1/4 mile to the east of the final approach path. I spent hours looking out my parent's dining room window at the 727s, L1011s, DC9s and 10s on final approach. That more than anything made me want to be a pilot.

LGA's runways - they're in the 6000-7000' range - are as long as Farmingdale's, where my partners and I kept our plane when we owned it. FRG is a GA field so yeah LGA's runways are short, but on the other hand it gives the pilots a chance to practice their short field technique :)
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I've only flown into LGA, twice, never out. I worked for the airlines for a long time, still have free flights, but flying there was just because I couldn't get to JFK. I took my dad to Ireland once, what a nightmare, we had to go PHX to Columbus, to LaGuardia, then take the bus to JFK, fly to Belfast, then take the train down to Dublin. We ended up coming home a day early via Shannon and JFK, He was too old for that crap, if I had the money I would have just bought a nonstop to JFK-DUB.

In the last few weeks, I've had two business trips, and I got 2 passes to the Admirals club on AA, used one in Boston and felt like the 1%, free lobster, champagne, lots of food, and just a nice quiet space, used the other in PHX, got there early to enjoy it, not as plush, but still nice. They never ever let airline employees in there! Flying to Kauai in 2.5 weeks with my GF, bought the tix months ago...and of course, there are 50 open seats...I could have flown free, but, nothing is ever certain when you are a non-rev standby.
 
Gaius46 said:
It's not the airways that are full. It's the runways that are.
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Yes and no.. point is, the airways are at or near capacity, so increasing the runway numbers at the major nodes will only make the problem even worse.
 
beefheart said:
I've only flown into LGA, twice, never out. I worked for the airlines for a long time, still have free flights, but flying there was just because I couldn't get to JFK. I took my dad to Ireland once, what a nightmare, we had to go PHX to Columbus, to LaGuardia, then take the bus to JFK, fly to Belfast, then take the train down to Dublin. We ended up coming home a day early via Shannon and JFK, He was too old for that crap, if I had the money I would have just bought a nonstop to JFK-DUB.

In the last few weeks, I've had two business trips, and I got 2 passes to the Admirals club on AA, used one in Boston and felt like the 1%, free lobster, champagne, lots of food, and just a nice quiet space, used the other in PHX, got there early to enjoy it, not as plush, but still nice. They never ever let airline employees in there! Flying to Kauai in 2.5 weeks with my GF, bought the tix months ago...and of course, there are 50 open seats...I could have flown free, but, nothing is ever certain when you are a non-rev standby.
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That's just insane. :shock:
 
PeteEU said:
Yes and no.. point is, the airways are at or near capacity, so increasing the runway numbers at the major nodes will only make the problem even worse.
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I don't believe the airspace system in the US itself is near capacity. What's near capacity is the the available slots for takeoff and landing at certain airports.
 
beefheart said:
I've only flown into LGA, twice, never out. I worked for the airlines for a long time, still have free flights, but flying there was just because I couldn't get to JFK. I took my dad to Ireland once, what a nightmare, we had to go PHX to Columbus, to LaGuardia, then take the bus to JFK, fly to Belfast, then take the train down to Dublin. We ended up coming home a day early via Shannon and JFK, He was too old for that crap, if I had the money I would have just bought a nonstop to JFK-DUB.

In the last few weeks, I've had two business trips, and I got 2 passes to the Admirals club on AA, used one in Boston and felt like the 1%, free lobster, champagne, lots of food, and just a nice quiet space, used the other in PHX, got there early to enjoy it, not as plush, but still nice. They never ever let airline employees in there! Flying to Kauai in 2.5 weeks with my GF, bought the tix months ago...and of course, there are 50 open seats...I could have flown free, but, nothing is ever certain when you are a non-rev standby.
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Yeah that sounds rough.

I'll be in your neck of the woods during the Christmas holidays. Wife and I and our kids and a couple of their friends are spending Christmas week in Tuscon. We're flying into PHX and taking some kind of scheduled shuttle to Tuscon. I don't know the details, my wife and daughter made the arrangements I just where they tell me to. Never been to PHX or Arizona at all for that matter.
 
Gaius46 said:
I don't believe the airspace system in the US itself is near capacity. What's near capacity is the the available slots for takeoff and landing at certain airports.
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Except for replacing some major airports with newer and bigger ones, I'm not sure we really need more of them, even with current near-capacity.
 
radcen said:
That's just insane. :shock:
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No, that is fairly easy. Once, to get to Cairns, Austrailia, I flew Phoenix to Vancouver, spent the night, tried to get on the Air Canada flight the next day from Vancouver to Honolulu to Sydney, didn't make it, so I ran over to our counter, and got a ticket to LAX, flew there on a night flight, got a hotel room. Up early next morning, got a ticket on the morning flight from LAX to Honolulu, then spent 12 hours there (rented a car for the day, swam, showered on the beach), then met that night's flight in from Vancouver. Since they couldn't pick up any new paying passengers on that flight to Sydney because it was a US international flight, it was wide open...however, they used a 767, so there was weight and balance issues, but I still made it to SYD, then on to Cairns, and straight to a liveaboard dive boat. Long day....lots of weird routing like that when you fly free standby...
 
Gaius46 said:
Yeah that sounds rough.

I'll be in your neck of the woods during the Christmas holidays. Wife and I and our kids and a couple of their friends are spending Christmas week in Tuscon. We're flying into PHX and taking some kind of scheduled shuttle to Tuscon. I don't know the details, my wife and daughter made the arrangements I just where they tell me to. Never been to PHX or Arizona at all for that matter.
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Cool! I'm not a huge fan of Tuscon, but it is nice up in the mountains, and you should book a tour at Karchner caverns. Sedona is about 2 hours drive from PHX and is beautiful. Or, a 4 hour drive to Puerto Penasco Mexico with some very nice beaches and a wide variety of hotel options (back in high school days, we just went and camped on the beaches that are all now full of hotels and condos...crazy)
 
beefheart said:
Cool! I'm not a huge fan of Tuscon, but it is nice up in the mountains, and you should book a tour at Karchner caverns. Sedona is about 2 hours drive from PHX and is beautiful. Or, a 4 hour drive to Puerto Penasco Mexico with some very nice beaches and a wide variety of hotel options (back in high school days, we just went and camped on the beaches that are all now full of hotels and condos...crazy)
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Thanks. I'll check out a tour of the caverns. We're looking for things to do while there. I'm hoping to rent a motorcycle somewhere and take a ride up into the mountains - we did that a couple of years when we were in Las Vegas. One of the most memorable rides of my life. My wife is big on going to Sedona because she's an artist and there are apparently lots of artists there.
 
beefheart said:
I've only flown into LGA, twice, never out. I worked for the airlines for a long time, still have free flights, but flying there was just because I couldn't get to JFK. I took my dad to Ireland once, what a nightmare, we had to go PHX to Columbus, to LaGuardia, then take the bus to JFK, fly to Belfast, then take the train down to Dublin. We ended up coming home a day early via Shannon and JFK, He was too old for that crap, if I had the money I would have just bought a nonstop to JFK-DUB.

In the last few weeks, I've had two business trips, and I got 2 passes to the Admirals club on AA, used one in Boston and felt like the 1%, free lobster, champagne, lots of food, and just a nice quiet space, used the other in PHX, got there early to enjoy it, not as plush, but still nice. They never ever let airline employees in there! Flying to Kauai in 2.5 weeks with my GF, bought the tix months ago...and of course, there are 50 open seats...I could have flown free, but, nothing is ever certain when you are a non-rev standby.
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Your post reminded me of a trip to Iceland we made a few years ago. It was to be a direct flight from IAD to RKV, but near Boston there was a mechanical problem. Two and a half days later we were finally on our way. Iceland Air handled the problem very badly. The bright spot was access to the Virgin Atlantic lounge. It is out of the way on a lower level, but it was the best lounge we have ever been in. There were two or three staff, unfettered access to premium spirits, sandwiches made to order, fruit, soft drinks and so on. Took some of the pain away. We have judged every other lounge nationally and internationally by BOS Virgin/Atlantic standards and all have been found lacking. The European lounges are much better than any we have been in at IAD. We once flew to SXM in business and were denied access to the lounge because the Caribbean didn't rate. I think that was PHL.
 
Bucky said:
Anyone wondering why the U.S hasn't built a major airport hub since 1995, in Denver?

Does that seem odd? Airports in the United States are lagging behind big time. In some airports, I wonder if I am in a third world country. Compare that to China which seems to be building a new airport every month.
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I'm on the road about 50% of the time. Most airports, most major and minor have gone or are currently undergoing major renovation. I'm purposely avoiding LAX this year. Last year, due to it's renovation, it was a nightmare just traveling between terminals.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
We have barely attempted to keep the airports we have up to date and nice either, for the same reason we dont build new airports.....nobody wants to pay.

Cheap and crappy, the New American Way.
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You forgot to include a claim about how any degradation in American infrastructure is the fault of "the Elite class".
 
Gaius46 said:
Thanks. I'll check out a tour of the caverns. We're looking for things to do while there. I'm hoping to rent a motorcycle somewhere and take a ride up into the mountains - we did that a couple of years when we were in Las Vegas. One of the most memorable rides of my life. My wife is big on going to Sedona because she's an artist and there are apparently lots of artists there.
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Karchner Caverns is the largest wet cavern in the country, it was kept as a secret for many years to protect it and get national park status, it is amazing. Bisbee is another good place to visit in SE AZ, artist colony, old mining town, I still haven't been there yet, I need to go. Another good Mexico spot is El Golfo de Santa Clara, its pretty spartan, only a few small hotels, but...dunes...lots of dunes, rent an ATV and go wild. Its basically where the dry sonoran desert meets the ocean, high up in the northern Sea of Cortez, huge tidal differences, lots of great shrimp! Its a great place if you have an RV or something, it gets crazy with dirt bikes, sand rails and ATV's on the holidays, some crazy stuff. I have brothers that are nurses and practitioners, they bring down surgical supplies on each trip, they have done more than a few stitching up of people who wiped out.

I have one brother that lives in Sedona, its pretty as hell, there are a whole lot of new age woo-woo folk up there willing to take your money in exchange for clearing your chakras....:roll:
 
lurchadams said:
I'm on the road about 50% of the time. Most airports, most major and minor have gone or are currently undergoing major renovation. I'm purposely avoiding LAX this year. Last year, due to it's renovation, it was a nightmare just traveling between terminals.
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LAX is much better now since they did the huge move of all the airlines around, it really has improved on time operations, and less travel between terminals. I swear though, the Tom Bradley Int'l Terminal is always under construction.
 
Bucky said:
Anyone wondering why the U.S hasn't built a major airport hub since 1995, in Denver?

Does that seem odd? Airports in the United States are lagging behind big time. In some airports, I wonder if I am in a third world country. Compare that to China which seems to be building a new airport every month.
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Denver, by the way did build a new airport, but it was a replacement for the old one. Denver still has only one international airport but it's larger than the old one and was build much farther away from the downtown area.
 
lurchadams said:
Denver, by the way did build a new airport, but it was a replacement for the old one. Denver still has only one international airport but it's larger than the old one and was build much farther away from the downtown area.
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Austin is also a fairly new airport, within the last 20 years or so IIRC
 
beefheart said:
LAX is much better now since they did the huge move of all the airlines around, it really has improved on time operations, and less travel between terminals. I swear though, the Tom Bradley Int'l Terminal is always under construction.
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Good to know! Thanks :)
 
beefheart said:
Austin is also a fairly new airport, within the last 20 years or so IIRC
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I like Austin. Their most recent update was their building of a new, larger rental car facility just last year. The only bad thing is that it's about 1/4 mile walk further from the terminal which is ok during the winter, just not in 100+ degree heat.
 
Bucky said:
Besides the infrastructure the overall experience is horrible. TSA agents groping me and violating my body. Paying for overpriced food. Signs are overly confusing and it feels like walking in a maze. I don't like the fact I have to take off my shoes and belts. It is very inconvenient.

Things don't make sense there. I'd rather go to the dentist. The last airport I went to was Denver and felt like I was in a shopping mall. The experience was terrible.
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I just ask the TSA agents to kiss me first. Seriously though, if you're a frequent traveler apply for pre-check. It saves a bunch of time. I got to the airport late Tuesday in Seattle for my flight to Sac. 35 minutes before my flight departure time and made it into my plane seat with over 15 minutes to spare.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You see that with Highways too...always seem to be working on them, always seem to be generally speaking subpar and getting worse.

The Denver Airport was so poorly done that trying to build anymore is extremely politically risky, especially when the airlines are so dead set against the idea.
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What's your beef with DIA?
 
lurchadams said:
I just ask the TSA agents to kiss me first. Seriously though, if you're a frequent traveler apply for pre-check. It saves a bunch of time. I got to the airport late Tuesday in Seattle for my flight to Sac. 35 minutes before my flight departure time and made it into my plane seat with over 15 minutes to spare.
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And...get Global Entry! No waiting in line at customs.
 
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