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Work Requirement For SNAP Causes 85% Drop


On the surface the number looks good but reading more into it:

13 Alabama counties saw 85 percent drop in food stamp participation after work requirements restarted | In the Greenroom - Fox & Friends | Fox News

Thirteen previously exempted Alabama counties saw an 85 percent drop in food stamp participation after work requirements were put in place on Jan. 1, according to the Alabama Department of Human Resources.

The counties - Greene, Hale, Perry, Dallas, Lowndes, Wilcox, Monroe, Conecuh, Clarke, Washington, Choctaw, Sumter and Barbour - had been exempt from a change that limited able-bodied adults without dependents to three months of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits within a three-year time frame unless they were working or participating in an approved training program.

During the economic downturn of 2011-2013, several states - including Alabama - waived the SNAP work requirements in response to high unemployment. It was reinstituted for 54 counties on Jan. 1, 2016 and for the remaining 13 on Jan. 1, 2017. As of April 2017, the highest jobless rate among the 13 previously excluded counties was in Wilcox County, which reported a state-high unemployment rate of 11.7 percent, down more than 11 percentage points from the county's jobless rate for the same month of 2011.

Ending the exemption has dramatically cut the number of SNAP recipients in the counties.

So there was an increase when they waived the SNAP requirements and when they reinstated them it dropped again. This is among able-bodied adults without dependents, it's not a decrease overall.
 
This is what the right has been saying all along:

That if you make it harder to get food stamps, fewer people will get them? Nobody disagrees with that. That's obvious. Duh!

The question is did the people who stopped getting benefits truly deserve to lose them? And is this an overall benefit to the state or did these people who lost their benefits simply have to resort to crime, and begging to survive? Did the lose of benefits magically force these people to go get a job? Obviously not because if they went and got a job they could keep the benefits.

The whole point of food stamps is to help people who can't afford food find something to eat so that they don't have to resort to begging or theft in order to eat. If you only give these benefits to people that have a job obviously there are few able bodied people without dependents that need them if they already have a job. But what Alabama likely did is actually cost their state even more money, by forcing more of these people onto the streets begging, or potentially made them resort to crime in order to feed themselves.
 
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That if you make it harder to get food stamps, fewer people will get them? Nobody disagrees with that. That's obvious. Duh!

The question is did the people who stopped getting benefits truly deserve to lose them? And is this an overall benefit to the state or did these people who lost their benefits simply have to resort to crime, and charity to survive? Did the lose of benefits magically force these people to go get a job? Obviously not because if they went and got a job they could keep the benefits.

The whole point of food stamps is to help people who can't afford food find something to eat so that they don't have to resort to begging or theft in order to eat. If you only give these benefits to people that have a job obviously there are few able bodied people without dependents that need them if they already have a job. But what Alabama likely did is actually cost their state even more money, by forcing more of these people onto the streets begging, or potentially made them resort to crime in order to feed themselves.
Food stamps are a charity.
 
Food stamps are a charity.

Right, but it is state charity that is split among the whole state. Just because they are off food stamps doesn't mean they aren't getting charity it just means that now a handful of nice people(or unlucky people in the case of crime) are shouldering a burden that actually benefits the entire state. That's stupid, and counter productive.

In fact it's entirely possible that kicking these people off food stamps could end up costing the State more money.
 
That if you make it harder to get food stamps, fewer people will get them? Nobody disagrees with that. That's obvious. Duh!

The question is did the people who stopped getting benefits truly deserve to lose them? And is this an overall benefit to the state or did these people who lost their benefits simply have to resort to crime, and begging to survive? Did the lose of benefits magically force these people to go get a job? Obviously not because if they went and got a job they could keep the benefits.

The whole point of food stamps is to help people who can't afford food find something to eat so that they don't have to resort to begging or theft in order to eat. If you only give these benefits to people that have a job obviously there are few able bodied people without dependents that need them if they already have a job. But what Alabama likely did is actually cost their state even more money, by forcing more of these people onto the streets begging, or potentially made them resort to crime in order to feed themselves.

It was their choice to lose their benefits!
 
Right, but it is state charity that is split among the whole state. Just because they are off food stamps doesn't mean they aren't getting charity it just means that now a handful of nice people(or unlucky people in the case of crime) are shouldering a burden that actually benefits the entire state. That's stupid, and counter productive.

In fact it's entirely possible that kicking these people off food stamps could end up costing the State more money.

I find it completely remarkable that liberals can find the time and money to organize nationwide protest but can't be bothered to help feed hungry Americans. I am under no obligation to help the state of California feed illegal immigrants with my tax dollars.

When will liberals grasp that actually doing something is more relevant than idealistic symbolism.
 
When will liberals grasp that actually doing something is more relevant than idealistic symbolism.

Voting is doing something.

What people like you need to learn about is something called a Nash Equilibrium. Without coordination achieving optimal results is usually impossible. The result is that the person who does the "right" thing morally gets punished while ****ty people who don't care reap the benefits with none of the costs. The result is that all to often nobody does the right thing unless we all chose to do it together.
 
It was their choice to lose their benefits!

No, you just made it so ****ing difficult to obtain the benefits that most people didn't bother. You made it easier to beg or to seek out some other form of charity. You likely did not save the state any money, you just shifted the burden on to nice people.
 
No, you just made it so ****ing difficult to obtain the benefits that most people didn't bother. You made it easier to beg or to seek out some other form of charity. You likely did not save the state any money, you just shifted the burden on to nice people.

Assuming you are 100% correct, what's wrong with that? We have all kinds of charities and nice people in this country who can help take care of these people instead of adding more onto the 20 trillion dollar national debt. But, I'm not sure what you really mean by making "it so ****ing difficult to obtain the benefits that most people didn't bother". Requiring able bodied people to work is making it so ****ing difficult? Poor babies.
 
Assuming you are 100% correct, what's wrong with that?
You think a country where selfish assholes get to force decent people to shoulder their burden is a good thing?

Requiring able bodied people to work is making it so ****ing difficult? Poor babies.

Contrary to what you might like to believe almost all able bodied people would rather work for a living than sit outside in whatever weather sleeping in cardboard boxes begging, and getting spit on and yelled at by every 5th person that walks by. Able bodied does not necessarily mean employable.

Let me give you a few examples of what I'm talking about.....

A while back there was a commotion outside of my old apartment. I looked out my door and there were two police officers down the hall escorting a homeless man out of the complex. Apparently he had been sleeping in our laundry room for the past few days to stay warm(it was January in Minnesota). A few hours later I heard another commotion. I looked out my door again, and this time my neighbor down the hall found the exact same guy right back in our laundry room, and was kicking him out again. The guy might have been "able bodied", but he clearly had mental problems, and was a sever sever alcoholic. No company would ever employ this guy.

Could you realistically blame him? It was January in Minnesota. It was less than 10 degrees outside. He would have frozen to death if he'd stayed out there. Now as a result of this problem my landlord had to pay $600 to fix up our laundry room, and he had to put locks on the down stairs doors so me and my roommates now had to fiddle with an extra key just to get in the building which meant standing outside in the cold in a Minnesota January an extra 10 seconds every time we came home. And why exactly? Because some vagrant wanted to not freeze to death.

So all that money and effort to keep him out, and what did we accomplish? The guy just went down the street and caused a problem for the next property owner with bad locks on their doors. On top of the hundreds of dollars my landlord had to pay he probably cost the city thousands of dollars over the course of a year. Whether it was through begging, or having the police deal with him, or stealing, or destruction of someone else's property the city still payed tens of thousands.

Now for the cost of about $1 per person the town could easily build a simple shelter and keep it temp controlled between 50 and 80 degrees all year round. Put a couple cots, and working toilet in there, and give the guy some bread an water every day. Hell let him have a ****ing colt 45 for all we care. The cost of doing all of that would be far less than what the city as a whole is currently having to pay to deal with the guy currently.

As it turns out many cities across the country are finally waking up to this reality. Salt Lake City has basically ended homelessness at a bare minimum expense by building a number of tiny homes for it's homeless citizens. They're nothing fancy, but they keep the problem contained and off the streets at a bare minimum expense. Minneapolis St. Paul, MN built what they're calling Wet houses to solve a similar problem. They estimated that they saved the city $5 million dollars in doing so.

People like you are wasting your time fighting a problem that is much better of contained. What's worse is that the kinder solution is actually the cheaper solution while your cruelty and greed ends up costing more.
 
Voting is doing something.

What people like you need to learn about is something called a Nash Equilibrium. Without coordination achieving optimal results is usually impossible. The result is that the person who does the "right" thing morally gets punished while ****ty people who don't care reap the benefits with none of the costs. The result is that all to often nobody does the right thing unless we all chose to do it together.

I'm actually very familiar with Game theory. My entire qualitative economics education focused around Game theory.

They symbolism of...

Women's March
Worker's March
Immigration March
March March
etc...

Pales in comparison to actually doing something. Instead of spending the resources to organize these marches, it would have been much more productive actually fundraising for rape victims...meals on wheels...children's tutoring.

Voting is "doing something". That kind of third tier tertiary action pales in comparison to directly going to the communities and providing direct assistance.
 
It's not like these people got off Snap and went a found a job because the eligibility changed. They just got kicked off SNAP because the exemption was revoked and they had used up their 3 months. And as was mentioned, it was an 85% reduction in able-bodied adults without children collecting SNAP, not an 85% reduction in SNAP expenditures.

And it's not as if Alabama was throwing excessive amounts of money at the people they kicked off the rolls.

"17 percent of Alabamians received food stamps in 2016, and each household received an average of $123 per month. Rules allow for SNAP recipients to get three months worth of benefits in a 36-month time frame. "
 
That if you make it harder to get food stamps, fewer people will get them? Nobody disagrees with that. That's obvious. Duh!

The question is did the people who stopped getting benefits truly deserve to lose them? And is this an overall benefit to the state or did these people who lost their benefits simply have to resort to crime, and begging to survive? Did the lose of benefits magically force these people to go get a job? Obviously not because if they went and got a job they could keep the benefits.

The whole point of food stamps is to help people who can't afford food find something to eat so that they don't have to resort to begging or theft in order to eat. If you only give these benefits to people that have a job obviously there are few able bodied people without dependents that need them if they already have a job. But what Alabama likely did is actually cost their state even more money, by forcing more of these people onto the streets begging, or potentially made them resort to crime in order to feed themselves.

The answer is they didnt really need food stamps. They were abusing the lack of requirements to get wealth distributed to them. We've all seen how some people get food stamps and then buy luxuries, or trade the food for non food items. These arent children or disabled. They are abled bodied adults who dont work. All you have to do is walk up and get 3 months of stamps.
 
It's not like these people got off Snap and went a found a job because the eligibility changed. They just got kicked off SNAP because the exemption was revoked and they had used up their 3 months. And as was mentioned, it was an 85% reduction in able-bodied adults without children collecting SNAP, not an 85% reduction in SNAP expenditures.

And it's not as if Alabama was throwing excessive amounts of money at the people they kicked off the rolls.

"17 percent of Alabamians received food stamps in 2016, and each household received an average of $123 per month. Rules allow for SNAP recipients to get three months worth of benefits in a 36-month time frame. "

Thats $123 more excessive than they should.
 
It's not like these people got off Snap and went a found a job because the eligibility changed. They just got kicked off SNAP because the exemption was revoked and they had used up their 3 months. And as was mentioned, it was an 85% reduction in able-bodied adults without children collecting SNAP, not an 85% reduction in SNAP expenditures.

And it's not as if Alabama was throwing excessive amounts of money at the people they kicked off the rolls.

"17 percent of Alabamians received food stamps in 2016, and each household received an average of $123 per month. Rules allow for SNAP recipients to get three months worth of benefits in a 36-month time frame. "

They didn't kick anyone off. People left voluntarily because those able bodied adults didn't want to work.
 
They didn't kick anyone off. People left voluntarily because those able bodied adults didn't want to work.
The way I read it was that they re-enacted the 3-month rule, so they got removed from SNAP. Whether or not they wanted to, or were able to find a job wasn't even considered.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 
I bet the Alabama taxpayers are thrilled that their tax-dollars are not being fritted away on able-bodied single adults who choose not to work.
 
You think a country where selfish assholes get to force decent people to shoulder their burden is a good thing?



Contrary to what you might like to believe almost all able bodied people would rather work for a living than sit outside in whatever weather sleeping in cardboard boxes begging, and getting spit on and yelled at by every 5th person that walks by. Able bodied does not necessarily mean employable.

Let me give you a few examples of what I'm talking about.....

A while back there was a commotion outside of my old apartment. I looked out my door and there were two police officers down the hall escorting a homeless man out of the complex. Apparently he had been sleeping in our laundry room for the past few days to stay warm(it was January in Minnesota). A few hours later I heard another commotion. I looked out my door again, and this time my neighbor down the hall found the exact same guy right back in our laundry room, and was kicking him out again. The guy might have been "able bodied", but he clearly had mental problems, and was a sever sever alcoholic. No company would ever employ this guy.

Could you realistically blame him? It was January in Minnesota. It was less than 10 degrees outside. He would have frozen to death if he'd stayed out there. Now as a result of this problem my landlord had to pay $600 to fix up our laundry room, and he had to put locks on the down stairs doors so me and my roommates now had to fiddle with an extra key just to get in the building which meant standing outside in the cold in a Minnesota January an extra 10 seconds every time we came home. And why exactly? Because some vagrant wanted to not freeze to death.

So all that money and effort to keep him out, and what did we accomplish? The guy just went down the street and caused a problem for the next property owner with bad locks on their doors. On top of the hundreds of dollars my landlord had to pay he probably cost the city thousands of dollars over the course of a year. Whether it was through begging, or having the police deal with him, or stealing, or destruction of someone else's property the city still payed tens of thousands.

Now for the cost of about $1 per person the town could easily build a simple shelter and keep it temp controlled between 50 and 80 degrees all year round. Put a couple cots, and working toilet in there, and give the guy some bread an water every day. Hell let him have a ****ing colt 45 for all we care. The cost of doing all of that would be far less than what the city as a whole is currently having to pay to deal with the guy currently.

As it turns out many cities across the country are finally waking up to this reality. Salt Lake City has basically ended homelessness at a bare minimum expense by building a number of tiny homes for it's homeless citizens. They're nothing fancy, but they keep the problem contained and off the streets at a bare minimum expense. Minneapolis St. Paul, MN built what they're calling Wet houses to solve a similar problem. They estimated that they saved the city $5 million dollars in doing so.

People like you are wasting your time fighting a problem that is much better of contained. What's worse is that the kinder solution is actually the cheaper solution while your cruelty and greed ends up costing more.

The kinder and more cost efficient solution was also a local solution which is also noteworthy. The idea that everyone in the state or nation needs program X if they make less than $Y is simply insane. It is generally cheaper to build a homeless shelter that serves meals than to pay rent for and supply food money to each individual that would otherwise occupy it - the problem would be that once word gets out that city A is offering free room and board then many more "needy" folks would converge on it. The "need" to commit crime to get drinking/drugging funds does not go away just because you offer the "homeless" a place to sleep and eat.
 
The kinder and more cost efficient solution was also a local solution which is also noteworthy. The idea that everyone in the state or nation needs program X if they make less than $Y is simply insane. It is generally cheaper to build a homeless shelter that serves meals than to pay rent for and supply food money to each individual that would otherwise occupy it - the problem would be that once word gets out that city A is offering free room and board then many more "needy" folks would converge on it. The "need" to commit crime to get drinking/drugging funds does not go away just because you offer the "homeless" a place to sleep and eat.

I saw a segment on 60 minutes long ago where criminals were flocking to Portland, Oregon because they had so much jail overcrowding they were letting all criminals go except for the more hardcores. Your post reminded me of that.
 
I bet the Alabama taxpayers are thrilled that their tax-dollars are not being fritted away on able-bodied single adults who choose not to work.

Meh, I bet a lot of those people were accepting that SNAP money AND working. It's not like anyone can very easily live on $123 per month.
 
No, you just made it so ****ing difficult to obtain the benefits that most people didn't bother. You made it easier to beg or to seek out some other form of charity. You likely did not save the state any money, you just shifted the burden on to nice people.

working or being in a training program is so ****ing hard? cry me a river.
 
working or being in a training program is so ****ing hard? cry me a river.

The process required to apply for and receive benefits is convoluted and time consuming, and may be next to impossible for a poor person in a rural area if they don't own a car, because there ain't a lot of bus service (if there's ANY) in rural areas. Also of note is that it takes multiple visits to their offices to procure benefits. Nobody just goes there once and gets the process completed, there's always a follow up visit needed.
 
No, you just made it so ****ing difficult to obtain the benefits that most people didn't bother. You made it easier to beg or to seek out some other form of charity. You likely did not save the state any money, you just shifted the burden on to nice people.

Life isn't easy or fair, sometimes life sucks and you have to make hard choices.
 
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