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Vox: Kansas Republicans end the state’s failed tax-reform experiment

MTAtech

MTAtech

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About freaking time

And no, of course Brownback won't admit he was wrong. He vetoed every tax increase that came across his desk.
 
Visbek said:
About freaking time

And no, of course Brownback won't admit he was wrong. He vetoed every tax increase that came across his desk.
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But Brownback said it was an "experiment?" If a doctor experiments with a new treatment and it fails and makes the patient worse, the doctor discontinues the treatment. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
 
MTAtech said:
But Brownback said it was an "experiment?" If a doctor experiments with a new treatment and it fails and makes the patient worse, the doctor discontinues the treatment. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
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Kansas has a tea party government, but I'm sure there's a liberal in a wheatfield somewhere for them to blame.

The architects of these policies aren't the ones hurt by them. They take the money and move the snake oil store somewhere else.
 
As long as he's giving the people of Kansas what they want then he'll be re-elected.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Kansas has a tea party government, but I'm sure there's a liberal in a wheatfield somewhere for them to blame.

The architects of these policies aren't the ones hurt by them. They take the money and move the snake oil store somewhere else.
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Right.

They got to try their "experiment". Corporations and wealthy folks made money off of it. And now they'll cry about how they need to raise license plate fees, sales tax, and cut funding for high-school sports programs to get the budget back in balance.
 
Critter7r said:
Right.

They got to try their "experiment". Corporations and wealthy folks made money off of it. And now they'll cry about how they need to raise license plate fees, sales tax, and cut funding for high-school sports programs to get the budget back in balance.
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They've been doing that since Brownback and his legislature of believers first started. Now they've squeezed all of the blood they can from schools, roads etc, and they can only reverse the tax cuts. They are doing it. I'll have to look for the ALEC position paper explaining how it's not Laffer-nomics fault.
 
They should get a smart Democrat ( I know-oxymoron)to advise them on their state finances!
Special Report: The man behind the fiscal fiasco in Illinois
Hundreds of politicians share blame for drowning the state’s government in billions of dollars of debt and unfunded pension liabilities. But House Speaker Michael Madigan – a dominant political force for three decades – has been the constant in key decisions that created the mess.
 
MTAtech said:
Kansas Republicans end the state’s failed tax-reform experiment


Brownback literally described his plan as an "experiment." Now that it failed, will he change his view that tax-cuts are the magic elixir to economic prosperity? Do pigs fly?
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After slumped revenue and raiding the highway fund and proposing education cuts, conservatives finally had to face facts that tax cuts don't pay for themselves. Even Reagan raised taxes when revenue didn't match expectations.
 
MTAtech said:
Kansas Republicans end the state’s failed tax-reform experiment


Brownback literally described his plan as an "experiment." Now that it failed, will he change his view that tax-cuts are the magic elixir to economic prosperity? Do pigs fly?
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You are actually quite wrong. The problem with both sides is that the left believes tax cuts are always a bad thing while the right believes that tax cuts are always a good thing. Both sides are wrong. Brownback was wrong but you can't use that same argument everywhere.
 
Moderate Right said:
You are actually quite wrong. The problem with both sides is that the left believes tax cuts are always a bad thing while the right believes that tax cuts are always a good thing. Both sides are wrong. Brownback was wrong but you can't use that same argument everywhere.
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We finally agree mostly. I don't believe the left always wants tax increases, as JFK lowered taxes. The GOP in Kansas has proved that the right doesn't always want to lower taxes.
 
MTAtech said:
We finally agree mostly. I don't believe the left always wants tax increases, as JFK lowered taxes. The GOP in Kansas has proved that the right doesn't always want to lower taxes.
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It's not even that. It's that sometimes tax decreases are good and sometimes tax decreases are bad. Every situation is different. Obviously, in Kansas' case, tax cuts were bad.
 
Moderate Right said:
You are actually quite wrong. The problem with both sides is that the left believes tax cuts are always a bad thing while the right believes that tax cuts are always a good thing. Both sides are wrong. Brownback was wrong but you can't use that same argument everywhere.
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Here is one thing I would suggest, never assume tax cuts pay for themselves, if you want cut taxes, fine, budget those cuts in. But don't assume they pay for themselves, because if they don't pay for themselves, you are caught flat footed.

In politics almost everything is a trade off, if you want lower taxes, fine, but realize that sometimes taxes pay for other things you might think are important and if you want to lower taxes and still pay for those things, then the debt will increase.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Here is one thing I would suggest, never assume tax cuts pay for themselves, if you want cut taxes, fine, budget those cuts in. But don't assume they pay for themselves, because if they don't pay for themselves, you are caught flat footed.

In politics almost everything is a trade off, if you want lower taxes, fine, but realize that sometimes taxes pay for other things you might think are important and if you want to lower taxes and still pay for those things, then the debt will increase.
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But there are times when cutting taxes increases tax revenue. The problem with the right has been they think that that is always the case and the left thinks that that is never the case.
 
Moderate Right said:
But there are times when cutting taxes increases tax revenue. The problem with the right has been they think that that is always the case and the left thinks that that is never the case.
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But one should not assume tax cuts will instantly create an increase in revenue and fail to budget those cuts in. If there is an increase, then you will have more money to makeup the difference with the cuts in spending you made to cover the tax cuts. If there is no increase, at least the cuts are factored in the budget and you are not caught flat footed.

That is what rational fiscial conservativism should be, its far better to plan ahead, then assume everything will work out in your favor.
 
Yes_Minister said:
But one should not assume tax cuts will instantly create an increase in revenue and fail to budget those cuts in. If there is an increase, then you will have more money to makeup the difference with the cuts in spending you made to cover the tax cuts. If there is no increase, at least the cuts are factored in the budget and you are not caught flat footed.

That is what rational fiscial conservativism should be, its far better to plan ahead, then assume everything will work out in your favor.
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But you can't just assume that increasing tax rates will bring in more tax revenues. Would you be willing to cut expenses just in case increased tax rates backfired?
 
Moderate Right said:
But you can't just assume that increasing tax rates will bring in more tax revenues. Would you be willing to cut expenses just in case increased tax rates backfired?
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Fair enough. I am merely arguing for some prudence and some planning ahead. Really lower and raising taxes are just a couple of tools in a larger tool box and what tool is best for the job at hand, depends on circumstances at the time.

Cutting expenses can be a good idea, depending on what you are cutting and what the circumstances on the ground are, but getting caught flat footed and cutting without a proper plan is never a good idea.
 
Moderate Right said:
But you can't just assume that increasing tax rates will bring in more tax revenues. Would you be willing to cut expenses just in case increased tax rates backfired?
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Unless tax rates are raised to extreme levels, tax increases will result in more revenue. The idea that if we raise taxes on the rich by a few percent the rich will go Galt and stop trying to earn money, is an Ayn Rand fantasy.

as for cutting expenses, what is government spending money on, in any sizable amount, that would make a difference cutting? There is an editorial in today's Times about a Trump cutting the budget of inspector generals, whose efforts bring in 14x the amount of their budget.
 
This didn't work from Day 1 in Kansas, but the Middle Class Republican voters re-elected Brownback.

A similar agenda was tried in Louisiana, it was such a failure even other Republicans politicians in LA couldn't wait for Jindal to get the hell out so they could fix his mess.

The willingness of the Republican voter, especially the Middle Class Republican voter to cut their own throats and constantly vote against their own interests and pocketbooks is probably the most confusing, and even saddest thing in politics. And they NEVER learn. The GOP ****s on them all the time, the whole GOP is all about tax breaks and kissing the asses of the rich friends and donors, but the Middle Class Republican never seems to catch onto that. They just keep voting GOP and cutting their own throats.
 
MTAtech said:
Unless tax rates are raised to extreme levels, tax increases will result in more revenue. The idea that if we raise taxes on the rich by a few percent the rich will go Galt and stop trying to earn money, is an Ayn Rand fantasy.

as for cutting expenses, what is government spending money on, in any sizable amount, that would make a difference cutting? There is an editorial in today's Times about a Trump cutting the budget of inspector generals, whose efforts bring in 14x the amount of their budget.
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We do not live in a socialist country, which is what you want. I'm jealous of the person who won 400 million on the powerball lottery but they are the ones who bought the winning ticket, not me. I would absolutely love it if they gave me some of it but I don't expect them to nor are they required to share their wealth with anyone.
 
Moderate Right said:
We do not live in a socialist country, which is what you want. I'm jealous of the person who won 400 million on the powerball lottery but they are the ones who bought the winning ticket, not me. I would absolutely love it if they gave me some of it but I don't expect them to nor are they required to share their wealth with anyone.
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The IRS wins about 1/3 of any big lotto prize without need to contribute to the lotto prize pot - isn't that a bit "socialist"? ;)
 
Moderate Right said:
We do not live in a socialist country, which is what you want. I'm jealous of the person who won 400 million on the powerball lottery but they are the ones who bought the winning ticket, not me. I would absolutely love it if they gave me some of it but I don't expect them to nor are they required to share their wealth with anyone.
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First, don't pretend to know what I want. What I want is more of what we already have, a capitalist country in which the economic winners are taxed heavier to pay for those who have too little and also are taxed to reduce income inequality, that hampers the success of the country as a whole. That system is far superior to the tooth in claw free market that existed before the New Deal.

Second, the real issue is how much should the rich pay in taxes? The economic question is how high can you tax the rich before it results in lower revenues? Economists have studied this and the rate is somewhat north of 80% -- more than twice the top bracket in the U.S. Therefore, there is plenty of room to raise taxes before it discourages work or investment.
 
Moderate Right said:
We do not live in a socialist country, which is what you want. I'm jealous of the person who won 400 million on the powerball lottery but they are the ones who bought the winning ticket, not me. I would absolutely love it if they gave me some of it but I don't expect them to nor are they required to share their wealth with anyone.
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We do live in a society which requires some social responsibility. I'm getting a bit sick of all the "fend for yourself" morons out there who ignore the fact that they benefit from the social contract too.
 
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