Sweden: Counter-Example to Conservative Propaganda

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden

High taxes, strong unions and an equal distribution of wealth.

That’s the recipe for success in a globalized world, according to Magdalena Andersson, the Social Democratic economist who’s also Sweden’s finance minister.

The 50-year-old has been raising taxes and spending more on welfare since winning power in 2014. She’s also overseen an economic boom, with Swedish growth rates topping 4 percent early last year, that has turned budget deficits into surpluses.

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Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?



Over the past 20 years, Sweden averaged a higher GDP growth rate than the United States. But, the U.S. has been bogged down by bad policy decisions and stubborn refusals to legislate on behalf of the middle class and working classes. Imagine if the United States would have never passed the Bush Tax Cuts. How much healthier would our economy be right now?

The numbers are compelling. Sweden has one of the world’s highest tax burdens, with tax revenue about 43 percent of GDP, according to OECD data. The equivalent figure for the U.S. is about 26 percent. Sweden’s economy has grown almost twice as fast as America’s, expanding 3.1 percent last year, compared with 1.6 percent in the U.S.

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Last year Sweden topped 4% growth. So, if Sweden is getting 3-4% growth with high taxes and a huge welfare state, that is proof positive, that high taxes and a huge welfare state doesn't strangle economic growth or activity.. this is a delusion conservatives make painfully clear they believe. That delusion is patently false. High taxes and a robust welfare state, if they do not directly cause BOOMING economic times, they certainly don't impede growth. Trump would nut himself to produce 4% GDP growth in the United States. It looks like the template is high taxes, a robust welfare state, and wealth redistribution. After the GOP sees the results in Sweden, I'm sure we can expect the GOP and Trump to get on board with a Nordic model.

Sweden has the highest labor force participation in the European Union. Andersson attributes this to tax-funded parental leave and affordable daycare, which make it easier for both parents to work.

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Kindly dispose of the "homogenous population" talking point in the garbage, on your way out. Sweden took in record numbers of refugees. Where's your ideology conservatives? Sliced up and full of holes like Swiss Cheese.

Winston said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden




Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?

Over the past 20 years, Sweden averaged a higher GDP growth rate than the United States. But, the U.S. has been bogged down by bad policy decisions and stubborn refusals to legislate on behalf of the middle class and working classes. Imagine if the United States would have never passed the Bush Tax Cuts. How much healthier would our economy be right now?



Last year Sweden topped 4% growth. So, if Sweden is getting 3-4% growth with high taxes and a huge welfare state, that is proof positive, that high taxes and a huge welfare state doesn't strangle economic growth or activity.. this is a delusion conservatives make painfully clear they believe. That delusion is patently false. High taxes and a robust welfare state, if they do not directly cause BOOMING economic times, they certainly don't impede growth. Trump would nut himself to produce 4% GDP growth in the United States. It looks like the template is high taxes, a robust welfare state, and wealth redistribution. After the GOP sees the results in Sweden, I'm sure we can expect the GOP and Trump to get on board with a Nordic model.



Kindly dispose of the "homogenous population" talking point in the garbage, on your way out. Sweden took in record numbers of refugees. Where's your ideology conservatives? Sliced up and full of holes like Swiss Cheese.

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Selective storytelling will often allow a fine yarn and the naive will hang on ones lips. Here there is a certain support based on the ceteris paribus method of economics. But cp demands what it says. You cannot use it to and ignore significant variables that differ. This story requires more variable than you use. Just look at population growth or wealth distribution for instance. One needs to look at the bigger picture to analyze the section

Winston said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden




Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?

Over the past 20 years, Sweden averaged a higher GDP growth rate than the United States. But, the U.S. has been bogged down by bad policy decisions and stubborn refusals to legislate on behalf of the middle class and working classes. Imagine if the United States would have never passed the Bush Tax Cuts. How much healthier would our economy be right now?



Last year Sweden topped 4% growth. So, if Sweden is getting 3-4% growth with high taxes and a huge welfare state, that is proof positive, that high taxes and a huge welfare state doesn't strangle economic growth or activity.. this is a delusion conservatives make painfully clear they believe. That delusion is patently false. High taxes and a robust welfare state, if they do not directly cause BOOMING economic times, they certainly don't impede growth. Trump would nut himself to produce 4% GDP growth in the United States. It looks like the template is high taxes, a robust welfare state, and wealth redistribution. After the GOP sees the results in Sweden, I'm sure we can expect the GOP and Trump to get on board with a Nordic model.



Kindly dispose of the "homogenous population" talking point in the garbage, on your way out. Sweden took in record numbers of refugees. Where's your ideology conservatives? Sliced up and full of holes like Swiss Cheese.

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How much did you have to smoke for you to write that. Sweden has a small population and a large amount of natural resources, it can run any govt it wants and any economic system and be immensely successful. There is of course only one problem if the resources run out of the market for them falls out then you can look to Venezuela for what happens next.

Uh....so, like....Sweden is where all the rich and successful people of the world store their money.


So...all this article proves...is that there are more people, storing more money, in Sweden.

KevinKohler said:

Uh....so, like....Sweden is where all the rich and successful people of the world store their money.


So...all this article proves...is that there are more people, storing more money, in Sweden.

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:lamo

I think you are confusing Sweden with Switzerland.

No wonder we keep electing stupid crazy people to congress and the whitehouse.

Wait, don't tell me, you also think climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese too!
:lamo

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
-Thomas Jefferson

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Crovax said:

How much did you have to smoke for you to write that. Sweden has a small population and a large amount of natural resources, it can run any govt it wants and any economic system and be immensely successful. There is of course only one problem if the resources run out of the market for them falls out then you can look to Venezuela for what happens next.

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Obviously they are not smoking from the good stash like you. Here, you are confusing Sweden with Norway- which has access to lots of oil as offshore drilling. Sweden has some natural resources, but not anything to write home about.

:lamo

ataraxia said:

:lamo

I think you are confusing Sweden with Switzerland.

No wonder we keep electing stupid crazy people to congress and the whitehouse.

Wait, don't tell me, you also think climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese too!
:lamo

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Yeah, no, you got me there, lol. I DID get Swiss and swede mixed up. Consider me owned.

Winston said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden

Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?

Over the past 20 years, Sweden averaged a higher GDP growth rate than the United States. But, the U.S. has been bogged down by bad policy decisions and stubborn refusals to legislate on behalf of the middle class and working classes. Imagine if the United States would have never passed the Bush Tax Cuts. How much healthier would our economy be right now?

Last year Sweden topped 4% growth. So, if Sweden is getting 3-4% growth with high taxes and a huge welfare state, that is proof positive, that high taxes and a huge welfare state doesn't strangle economic growth or activity.. this is a delusion conservatives make painfully clear they believe. That delusion is patently false. High taxes and a robust welfare state, if they do not directly cause BOOMING economic times, they certainly don't impede growth. Trump would nut himself to produce 4% GDP growth in the United States. It looks like the template is high taxes, a robust welfare state, and wealth redistribution. After the GOP sees the results in Sweden, I'm sure we can expect the GOP and Trump to get on board with a Nordic model.

Kindly dispose of the "homogenous population" talking point in the garbage, on your way out. Sweden took in record numbers of refugees. Where's your ideology conservatives? Sliced up and full of holes like Swiss Cheese.

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Your implication that Sweden is a relevant comparison to the U.S. comes off as very naive. The policies don't create the economy (or any economy). The resources do, especially when considered per capita. Monopolism and protectionism will put Sweden at a crossroads. Sweden's "strong unions" require tolerance for monopoly power and protectionism. As global markets open up (as all but the most radical Democrats want them to), they will have to either disempower their "strong unions" or turn inward on themselves and be isolationists.

Neomalthusian said:

Your implication that Sweden is a relevant comparison to the U.S. comes off as very naive. The policies don't create the economy (or any economy). The resources do, especially when considered per capita. Monopolism and protectionism will put Sweden at a crossroads. Sweden's "strong unions" require tolerance for monopoly power and protectionism. As global markets open up (as all but the most radical Democrats want them to), they will have to either disempower their "strong unions" or turn inward on themselves and be isolationists.

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Typical conservative deflection. Socialism never helped anyone, they already had everything they needed right there in them mountains.

Winston said:

Typical conservative deflection. Socialism never helped anyone, they already had everything they needed right there in them mountains.

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This post is the deflection. You want your US to Sweden comparison to be valid, so you get pissy when you're informed that it's not. Maybe the real reason you're pissy is that most of the leaders of the Democratic Party don't in fact support the protectionism that unions require. They won't survive in a global marketplace. They require anti-competition. Your closest real friend in this regard is probably Steve Bannon.

Neomalthusian said:

This post is the deflection. You want your US to Sweden comparison to be valid, so you get pissy when you're informed that it's not. Maybe the real reason you're pissy is that most of the leaders of the Democratic Party don't in fact support the protectionism that unions require. They won't survive in a global marketplace. They require anti-competition. Your closest real friend in this regard is probably Steve Bannon.

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Nah, you wanting to shift to labor unions and trade is the essence of deflection. You want to talk about unions in America and make the comparison that in order to achieve what Sweden has, you'd have to do the politically impossible and kill all the 'right to work' laws that essentially killed the unions. As well as pontificate on the pitfalls of protectionism in a global economy.. Well, Sweden has an export based economy. Import tariffs may have a different effect on the U.S. economy than the Swedish one. The U.S. is transitioning to a service based economy. We're on par to lose another 5 million manufacturing jobs by 2020. And you can't stop the machines. So, the question is, if a company is trimming 90% of their labor costs. And all the money they used to pay workers, is going straight to the top, what happens to the money? It sits in the M-3 and stagnates economic growth, and the government must step in and seize parts of the gains, and redistribute them to the lower classes. This is the future. Old, dusty, stale conservative economic principles will lead this country to ruin.

You ignore the two out of three principles of the article, that create a BOOMING economy:

High Taxes
Wealth Redistribution

Because that doesn't fit a conservative recipe for economic success, but we have direct evidence that it creates higher growth, than whatever cockamamie economic policy Cohns and Mnuchin are going to spoonfeed Trump. You can raise taxes and redistribute wealth to the lower classes, without strong unions and collective bargaining. But, the government has to legislate on behalf of the worker, rather than the CEO.

"What is called sound economics is very often what mirrors the needs of the respectably affluent" - John Kenneth Galbraith. ~ Never has this droll observation been more cogent.

Winston said:

Nah, you wanting to shift to labor unions and trade is the essence of deflection. You want to talk about unions in America and make the comparison that in order to achieve what Sweden has, you'd have to do the politically impossible and kill all the 'right to work' laws that essentially killed the unions. Sweden has an export based economy. The U.S. is transitioning to a service based economy. We're on par to lose another 5 million manufacturing jobs by 2020. And you can't stop the machines. So, the question is, if a company is trimming 90% of their labor costs. And all the money they used to pay workers, is going straight to the top, what happens to the money? It sits in the M-3 and stagnates economic growth, and the government must step in and seize parts of the gains, and redistribute them to the lower classes. This is the future. Old, dusty, stale conservative economic principles will lead this country to ruin.

You ignore the two out of three principles of the article, that create a BOOMING economy:

High Taxes
Wealth Redistribution

Because that doesn't fit a conservative recipe for economic success, but we have direct evidence that it creates higher growth, than whatever cockamamie economic policy Cohns and Mnuchin are going to spoonfeed Trump. You can raise taxes and redistribute wealth to the lower classes, without strong unions and collective bargaining. But, the government has to legislate on behalf of the worker, rather than the CEO.

"What is called sound economics is very often what mirrors the needs of the respectably affluent" - John Kenneth Galbraith. ~ Never has this droll observation been more cogent.

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I like you, you're a smart one! :applaud

OlNate said:

I like you, you're a smart one! :applaud

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I feel strongly that right wing economics is the major problem we face as a nation.

Winston said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden




Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?
ese.

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The equality chart seems to indicate the rich are getting richer faster than the bottom 90%. But, according to the Heritage Foundation, Swedens economy does well due to

regulatory efficiency, with open-market policies that sustain flexibility, competitiveness, and large flows of trade and investment. Banking regulations are sensible, and lending practices have been prudent. The legal system provides strong protection for property rights, buttressing judicial effectiveness and government integrity.

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I agree, we should emulate that, certainly a balanced budget and their lower corporate tax. Maybe not their policy of helping Nazis while staying neutral, though thats certainly good savings for them, having others protect them.

Sweden Economy: Population, GDP, Inflation, Business, Trade, FDI, Corruption

Winston said:

I feel strongly that right wing economics is the major problem we face as a nation.

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And for all the right reasons... Automation and AI are going to put us in the interesting position of having an enormous population of people looking to work, and not being able to, because the human has been made obsolete as a profitable source of labor. The old assumption that folks willing to work will be able to support themselves will be turned on its head, and when no one can afford food, because they can't find a job to earn money to pay for it, support for capitalism will be a death sentence for an unimaginable number of people.

Of course, I'm sure that before that happens there will be a lot of ex-capitalists walking around rather grateful for the 2nd amendment. Hopefully the transition is a little easier up here, it's one of the comforts of living in a reasonably socialist country. Far from perfect, but far more open to the option.

jonny5 said:

The equality chart seems to indicate the rich are getting richer faster than the bottom 90%. But, according to the Heritage Foundation, Swedens economy does well due to



I agree, we should emulate that, certainly a balanced budget and their lower corporate tax. Maybe not their policy of helping Nazis while staying neutral, though thats certainly good savings for them, having others protect them.

Sweden Economy: Population, GDP, Inflation, Business, Trade, FDI, Corruption

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The Heritage foundation and a news org. owned by Michael Bloomberg will generally come to contradictory conclusions.

From the top economic policy advisor in Sweden's mouth, the recipe for success in Sweden is high taxes and wealth redistribution. Run that by the Heritage foundation and see if they agree. The Heritage Foundation will tell you the the free market is why a country with a left leaning economic policy is succeeding, because they have a predetermined conclusion and political ideology to defend.

Neomalthusian said:

This post is the deflection. You want your US to Sweden comparison to be valid, so you get pissy when you're informed that it's not ...

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Sort of like how conservatives get all pissy when it's pointed out that Venezuela and Greece are not valid comparisons to the US.

Critter7r said:

Sort of like how conservatives get all pissy when it's pointed out that Venezuela and Greece are not valid comparisons to the US.

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I'm not pissy. I feel like I just drank a glass of cucumber water. The esteemed poster sought to invalidate the economic principles of Sweden that contributed to 4% GDP growth, because protectionism is a questionable move for the United States. And in doing so, divert the conversation into the Bannon zone. A zone that anyone wishing to be taken seriously, should avoid at all costs.

Just because unions have been kneecapped in the United States doesn't mean that high taxes and wealth redistribution is impossible nor, that the effects of leftwing economics, empowers the middle class which creates a robust economy.

Critter7r said:

Sort of like how conservatives get all pissy when it's pointed out that Venezuela and Greece are not valid comparisons to the US.

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Winston said:

I'm not pissy. I feel like I just drank a glass of cucumber water. The esteemed poster sought to invalidate the economic principles of Sweden that contributed to 4% GDP growth, because protectionism is a questionable move for the United States. And in doing so, divert the conversation into the Bannon zone. A zone that anyone wishing to be taken seriously, should avoid at all costs.

Just because unions have been kneecapped in the United States doesn't mean that high taxes and wealth redistribution is impossible nor, that the effects of leftwing economics, empowers the middle class which creates a robust economy.

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*I meant to say,

Just because unions have been kneecapped in the United States doesn't mean that high taxes and wealth distribution is impossible nor, that the effects of leftwing economics don't empower the middle class to create a robust economy.

Winston said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...x-plan-delivers-an-economic-miracle-in-sweden




Due to smart policy, Sweden is turning into an economic powerhouse. They also run a budget surplus. That should get Rand Paul's attention. Wait a minute, Conservatives told me that tax cuts produce growth? Could it be that they were wrong about economics?

Over the past 20 years, Sweden averaged a higher GDP growth rate than the United States. But, the U.S. has been bogged down by bad policy decisions and stubborn refusals to legislate on behalf of the middle class and working classes. Imagine if the United States would have never passed the Bush Tax Cuts. How much healthier would our economy be right now?



Last year Sweden topped 4% growth. So, if Sweden is getting 3-4% growth with high taxes and a huge welfare state, that is proof positive, that high taxes and a huge welfare state doesn't strangle economic growth or activity.. this is a delusion conservatives make painfully clear they believe. That delusion is patently false. High taxes and a robust welfare state, if they do not directly cause BOOMING economic times, they certainly don't impede growth. Trump would nut himself to produce 4% GDP growth in the United States. It looks like the template is high taxes, a robust welfare state, and wealth redistribution. After the GOP sees the results in Sweden, I'm sure we can expect the GOP and Trump to get on board with a Nordic model.



Kindly dispose of the "homogenous population" talking point in the garbage, on your way out. Sweden took in record numbers of refugees. Where's your ideology conservatives? Sliced up and full of holes like Swiss Cheese.

Click to expand...

The myth of Scandanavian Socialism..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mercur.../articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

Winston said:

I'm not pissy. I feel like I just drank a glass of cucumber water...

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I didn't mean to imply that you were ... I was just rolling a comparison off of your post.

Winston said:

*I meant to say,

Just because unions have been kneecapped in the United States doesn't mean that high taxes and wealth distribution is impossible nor, that the effects of leftwing economics don't empower the middle class to create a robust economy.

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Left wing economics DONT empower the midle class, on the contrary.

They marginalzie the middle class and strip them of their discretionary income

I guess the Left or those naive individuals that count themselves as their constiuents will never learn.

The ultimate hitch in the Lefts plan to redistribute wealth via force is the Rich ( corporations, investors and the wealthy ) will never play along.

They and their money are mobile and will simply move away from short sighted ideologically driven confiscatory tax rates. This doesnt hurt the rich, it hurts the middle class/ working class.

California lost 9000 businesses over the last 8 years thanks to their progressive policies.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/b...a-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

Toyota relocates its headquarters from Torrance california to Texas
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-toyota-move-20140429-story,amp.html

Fenton said:

Left wing economics DONT empower the midle class, on the contrary.

They marginalzie the middle class and strip them of their discretionary income.

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False. Lower classes have low savings rates, any extra money redistributed from the top, where they have high savings rates, is spent back into the economy.

I guess the Left or those naive individuals that count themselves as their constiuents will never learn.

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I guess the Left is the only one who cares about empowering the middle class and improving middle class lives.

The ultimate hitch in the Lefts plan to redistribute wealth via force is the Rich ( corporations, investors and the wealthy ) will never play along.

They and their money are mobile and will simply move away from short sighted ideologically driven confiscatory tax rates. This doesnt hurt the rich, it hurts the middle class/ working class.

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Just like how the big meanie left had to force business to adhere to child labor laws, slavery abolition, minimum wage, and the 40 hour work week. But, I'm sure the left just doesn't understand business. There is no possible way you could get me to defend policy favoring people who already have too much. I much prefer to defend those who have little to nothing.

California lost 9000 businesses over the last 8 years thanks to their progressive policies.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/b...a-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

Toyota relocates its headquarters from Torrance california to Texas
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-toyota-move-20140429-story,amp.html

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Kansas though, doing phenomenal, you'd think with all that extra freedom laying around, they could afford to send their kids to school.

Critter7r said:

I didn't mean to imply that you were ... I was just rolling a comparison off of your post.

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All good, do you have any analysis of your own? I see you often arguing economics valliantly.

Fenton said:

Left wing economics DONT empower the midle class, on the contrary.

They marginalzie the middle class and strip them of their discretionary income

I guess the Left or those naive individuals that count themselves as their constiuents will never learn.

The ultimate hitch in the Lefts plan to redistribute wealth via force is the Rich ( corporations, investors and the wealthy ) will never play along.

They and their money are mobile and will simply move away from short sighted ideologically driven confiscatory tax rates. This doesnt hurt the rich, it hurts the middle class/ working class.

California lost 9000 businesses over the last 8 years thanks to their progressive policies.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/b...a-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

Toyota relocates its headquarters from Torrance california to Texas
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-toyota-move-20140429-story,amp.html

Click to expand...

"Less than 1% of all businesses that disappeared in California in 2013 were due to out-of-state relocations, according to data from Youreconomy.org, which tracks business dynamics across the country. That's in line with the average for all states.

And an earlier Beacon analysis of census migration data showed that, despite California's comparatively high income tax rates, more people making in excess of $100,000 a year moved to California from other states from 2007 to 2013 than those who left."

California cranks out new businesses and jobs despite criticism - LA Times