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Trump Tax Plan Is Out (sorta)

MTAtech said:
The architects of this plan are Steven Mnuchin and Gary Cohn, both multimillionaires or billionaires and former Goldman Sachs bankers. One cannot downplay that people like Mnuchin, Cohn, and Trump would greatly benefit personally from this plan.

y.
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I'm not concerned so much with who drafts the plan. Let's face it's NEVER going to be somebody from the middle class, even if Bernie ( 6 houses ) Sanders drafts it . It's not lilkely that these folks would design a plan solely for their personal benefit. I'm much more concerned withe overall benefit and since we don't know enough to know yet.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Trump continues to masquerade as a conservative and will cave to the Democrats when the time comes. We saw it happen twice already... Why should this time be anything different?
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In the end, Trump has to bend to reality. He wanted to pass a health care bill that threw millions off care and didn't cover preexisting conditions. Republicans, not Democrats, torpedoed the bill. We Democrats are just sitting back watching reality take its toll on Trump. So far, reality has gotten, Trump to cave on health care; NAFTA; China; Mexico; The Wall; Obamacare Subsidies; the Export-Import Bank; and I know I'm leaving out other flipped polices but you got the idea.
 
Visbek said:
Because he's writing a tax cut for his own benefit? :mrgreen:

I do think this is more of an opening gambit than a serious proposal. Deficit hawks will really lose it once we have some cost estimates. However, it seems highly unlikely that Trump will be the one to propose a massive middle-class tax cut, without the other breaks for the wealthy. IMO he is acting more like a traditional Republican, than either a working-class populist or Democratic stooge when it comes to taxes.
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The leadership has said this outline is only guide rules. I suspect Trump will work with democrats, but this is not what he ran on. I don't like con-men who say they will do one thing and then do another even if the other thing is the thing I like. He's a liar and I don't trust him whatsoever.
 
KLATTU said:
I'm not concerned so much with who drafts the plan. Let's face it's NEVER going to be somebody from the middle class, even if Bernie ( 6 houses ) Sanders drafts it . It's not lilkely that these folks would design a plan solely for their personal benefit. I'm much more concerned withe overall benefit and since we don't know enough to know yet.
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A} Bernie wouldn't propose a plan to lower the rich's taxes.
B} I think these are exactly the people who would design a plan solely for their personal benefit. So much of what Trump does is for his own self-interest.
C} There is no empirical evidence that this plan does anything positive. It lowers taxes on the very people who need it least; it blows a huge hole in the deficit and will give conservatives an excuse to justify cutting middle-class spending.
 
MTAtech said:
A} Bernie wouldn't propose a plan to lower the rich's taxes.
B} I think these are exactly the people who would design a plan solely for their personal benefit. So much of what Trump does is for his own self-interest.
C} There is no empirical evidence that this plan does anything positive. It lowers taxes on the very people who need it least; it blows a huge hole in the deficit and will give conservatives an excuse to justify cutting middle-class spending.
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There is no empirical evidence for anything since there is not plan...yet. Just a broad outline. In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has a a bit of a problem with 'talking out his azz".

I'm not for lowering taxes. Has nothing to do with who 'need's one. ( But since 45 % of people don't pay any income tax, who else's tax are they going to lower?)

I do agree with the point about a blowing a hole in the budget, but completely disagree that it will justify a spending cut. When do Republicans ever do that?The best they ever do is slow down the increase in spending.
 
KLATTU said:
There is no empirical evidence for anything since there is not plan...yet. Just a broad outline. In case you hadn't noticed, Trump has a a bit of a problem with 'talking out his azz".

I'm not for lowering taxes. Has nothing to do with who 'need's one. ( But since 45 % of people don't pay any income tax, who else's tax are they going to lower?)

I do agree with the point about a blowing a hole in the budget, but completely disagree that it will justify a spending cut. When do Republicans ever do that?The best they ever do is slow down the increase in spending.
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When I said that this, "blows a huge hole in the deficit and will give conservatives an excuse to justify cutting middle-class spending," I was discussing what is commonly called "starving the beast," which is cutting off revenue so there isn't money for those liberal social programs.

Yes, Trump has been talking out of his azz and now is facing that fact that everything is said was wrong.

Many in the middle class pay taxes and this plan (it's a sketch that we can see who it helps and isn't helped) is skewed to help the rich by a lot.
 
MTAtech said:
When I said that this, "blows a huge hole in the deficit and will give conservatives an excuse to justify cutting middle-class spending," I was discussing what is commonly called "starving the beast," which is cutting off revenue so there isn't money for those liberal social programs.
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.....which never happens,
 
KLATTU said:
I'm not for lowering taxes. Has nothing to do with who 'need's one. ( But since 45 % of people don't pay any income tax, who else's tax are they going to lower?)
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Anyone's but multinational corporations and the top 1% would be fine. The problem is that's the only reason trump ran for office, well, plus his ego
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Because trump fears being judged as a loser in the public eye.
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The conservatives have given Trump the most leeway of any candidate turned President I've ever seen. They still have hope due to two maybe three wins that he will continue to fight for them.
Anybody can promise the moon and lie to us. I really hope he hasn't set a new precedent in that respect for future elections.

"Oh the people don't really care if we do anything we said we would? Great let's run on everything they want! It obviously doesn't matter anymore if we don't believe it. As long as we get votes."
 
MaggieD said:
OMG. If you don't think every single congressman benefits from tax cuts for the wealthy, you live in a dream world.
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They don't...

257c156fd038530f3218f11b958ef0b4.jpg


If this gets implemented, our nation, as a whole, will suffer. This will further redistribute income from the poor and middle classes to the superrich.
 
Absentglare said:
They don't...

257c156fd038530f3218f11b958ef0b4.jpg


If this gets implemented, our nation, as a whole, will suffer. This will further redistribute income from the poor and middle classes to the superrich.
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Skuze me, but what does your graph prove?
 
MaggieD said:
Skuze me, but what does your graph prove?
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You don't define what i consider benefits me.

There are many people in congress who will oppose tax cuts that increase their personal income. This is because they recognize that they will not benefit, overall, by stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

Edit: i stand to get a hefty pay raise from these terrible tax policies, but i still oppose them.
 
Mr Person said:
Talk about slimy.

They'd spend those 10 years saying we just have to wait for all the supply side goodness to fill us with its warmth. And, of course, there's nothing to stop them from amending it and removing that proviison.
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You know, I think until Dems let the right run with whatever they want, to the very bitter end, we will never get rid of this debate. I say the Dems go ahead and approve whatever hare-brained tax cuts they want, enthusiastically support the gutting of Obamacare with whatever crazy replacement they think is a good idea, if any at all, start those trade wars on China, Mexico, Canada, Europe, and whoever else they want, "bomb the "sh-t out of" wherever they want to bomb, and then we can see what happens.

What we do know is that the people who are going to be the most hurt by this craziness are the Trump supporters themselves. Why are we killing ourselves trying to protect them? They're growups. Let them have at it and see how far they want to go until they finally cry uncle.

I think that's the only way we can put a stop to this insanity. If the Dems keep interfering and not letting them do what they want, this debate is just going to go on forever. "Oh, them libruls never let us do what we wanted to do, and that's why we still have x, y, z problem." I can hear it now. We have been hearing this massive cut-taxes-and-spend Reaganomics nonsense since the 1980s, despite massive increases in deficits every time it's been tried. And we are still not rid of it. You know why? Because we have never let them run with it completely unhampered. Let them run with it and see what really happens if they do it- unhampered, unmitigated. No more crazy libruls trying to ruin their party and keep them from hurting themselves.

Reality can be a harsh teacher, but it's often the best teacher. I have found that in raising kids, that's often the best way to teach them something. If you tell them don't do something (eg, don't drink from the bottle of bleach, don't stick your finger in the electric outlet, etc...), guess what? That's the one thing they are going to want to do the most (don't worry, I still didn't let them do those specific things. But I did let them do some other crazy things and learn from the experience, where I was fairly sure they weren't going to kill themselves in the process).

I'm really tired of them saying that "them libruls don't let us do anything we want", "Donald Trump is wealthy, so if we let him make tax cuts for himself and his buddies to make them just a little bit wealthier, then finally it's going to trickle down on us too". Let them knock themselves out doing whatever the heck they want. And then we can talk afterwards.
 
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Sounds great, but why **** over the whole country because half of them can't math?
 
ataraxia said:
You know, I think until Dems let the right run with whatever they want, to the very bitter end, we will never get rid of this debate. I say the Dems go ahead and approve whatever hare-brained tax cuts they want, enthusiastically support the gutting of Obamacare with whatever crazy replacement they think is a good idea, if any at all, start those trade wars on China, Mexico, Canada, Europe, and whoever else they want, "bomb the "sh-t out of" wherever they want to bomb, and then we can see what happens.

What we do know is that the people who are going to be the most hurt by this craziness are the Trump supporters themselves. Why are we killing ourselves trying to protect them? They're growups. Let them have at it and see how far they want to go until they finally cry uncle.

I think that's the only way we can put a stop to this insanity. If the Dems keep interfering and not letting them do what they want, this debate is just going to go on forever. "Oh, them libruls never let us do what we wanted to do, and that's why we still have x, y, z problem." I can hear it now. We have been hearing this massive cut-taxes-and-spend Reaganomics nonsense since the 1980s, despite massive increases in deficits every time it's been tried. And we are still not rid of it. You know why? Because we have never let them run with it completely unhampered. Let them run with it and see what really happens if they do it- unhampered, unmitigated. No more crazy libruls trying to ruin their party and keep them from hurting themselves.

Reality can be a harsh teacher, but it's often the best teacher. I have found that in raising kids, that's often the best way to teach them something. If you tell them don't do something (eg, don't drink from the bottle of bleach, don't stick your finger in the electric outlet, etc...), guess what? That's the one thing they are going to want to do the most (don't worry, I still didn't let them do those specific things. But I did let them do some other crazy things and learn from the experience, where I was fairly sure they weren't going to kill themselves in the process).

I'm really tired of them saying that "them libruls don't let us do anything we want", "Donald Trump is wealthy, so if we let him make tax cuts for himself and his buddies to make them just a little bit wealthier, then finally it's going to trickle down on us too". Let them knock themselves out doing whatever the heck they want. And then we can talk afterwards.
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My main problem with this is the Republican agenda is harmful to people and the planet. Letting the GOP off with a free pass will disturb the planet and people. We also have no evidence GOPs are honest enough to admit failure when their policies tank. But, yes, arguing with someone who is a climate change denier, thinks immigrants and poor people are the reason his wages don't keep up with the CoL, and supports the Wall, etc.

Arguing with someone who believes that all news critical of conservatives is fake, is about as productive as debating a Christian on the existence of God. Make salient points, it doesn't ****ing matter, the ideology stomps out logic every time.


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