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Trump’s treasury secretary: The tax cut ‘will pay for itself’

#451

Surely that.
Unquestionably that.
But more than that:

A fully informed electorate is essential to the prosperity of our republic. HOW DO YOU THINK TRUMP GOT ELECTED?!

And discussion / debate of the pros & cons can be elucidating. It shadows the Socratic method. Doesn't it?
 
fmw said:
It is better earned than yours, apparently. The top 20% pay almost all the taxes and yet they won't receive almost all the tax cuts under any plan. Is that easier for you to understand.
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And the middle and lower classes pay the majority (I think it's a pretty big majority) of sales taxes. Everything is taxed. Secondly, they (that magical 20%) have huge amounts of money tucked away where it can't be taxed.

So your statement is unintentionally a lie. You're talking about income taxes. I'm curious as to what you mean by "almost all the cuts." The rich are getting enormous quantities of money back that, if not balanced by federal spending cuts, will put us another trillion or so dollars in debt each year. I apologize, but when I see Donald Trump writing off losses for decades to pay $0 in income tax next to the family that's struggling to make their car payment, then look up and see that cutting income tax for the rich is a huge priority, I'm pretty shocked by the widespread stupidity and ignorance.
 
Mustachio said:
So you're saying that your anecdotal evidence was invalid? OK. So in other words, you're saying that your own post meant nothing and was worthless. Noted.
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I'm just repeating what many liberals have told me here on DP. They don't accept anecdotal evidence so yours isn't accepted either.
 
fmw said:
It is better earned than yours, apparently. The top 20% pay almost all the taxes and yet they won't receive almost all the tax cuts under any plan. Is that easier for you to understand.
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There is a bit of sleight of hand there. The top 20% don't pay almost all the taxes. They don't pay the most payroll taxes. There is a tendency in these discussions for income taxes to morph into just "taxes."

But the idea that is under attack is the idea of a progressive income tax, where the rich pay more of their proportion of the taxes. It seems right to me that I, and people in my income level, should pay more of a proportion than people living hand-to-mouth.
 
MTAtech said:
There is a bit of sleight of hand there. The top 20% don't pay almost all the taxes. They don't pay the most payroll taxes. There is a tendency in these discussions for income taxes to morph into just "taxes."

But the idea that is under attack is the idea of a progressive income tax, where the rich pay more of their proportion of the taxes. It seems right to me that I, and people in my income level, should pay more of a proportion than people living hand-to-mouth.
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That's where the flat tax comes in. Glad you are aboard. By the way, I find it hilarious that lefties like to include payroll taxes the poor pay, even though the rich not only pay those exact same payroll taxes that the poor do but they pay them for every employee while the employee only pays them for themself.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's where the flat tax comes in. Glad you are aboard. By the way, I find it hilarious that lefties like to include payroll taxes the poor pay, even though the rich not only pay those exact same payroll taxes that the poor do but they pay them for every employee while the employee only pays them for themself.
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Read post #455 again. I was taking the exact opposite of your position.
 
MTAtech said:
There is a bit of sleight of hand there. The top 20% don't pay almost all the taxes. They don't pay the most payroll taxes. There is a tendency in these discussions for income taxes to morph into just "taxes."

But the idea that is under attack is the idea of a progressive income tax, where the rich pay more of their proportion of the taxes. It seems right to me that I, and people in my income level, should pay more of a proportion than people living hand-to-mouth.
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The "tax reform" is about income tax I believe, not FICA. FICA is meant as a tax to pay for benefits to be received during old age. Not the same thing. I'm a believer in government policies that are driven by equality, not fairness. If he wealthy receive more social security benefit then they should pay more for it.
 
Mustachio said:
And the middle and lower classes pay the majority (I think it's a pretty big majority) of sales taxes. Everything is taxed. Secondly, they (that magical 20%) have huge amounts of money tucked away where it can't be taxed.
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Sales tax is paid to states. We are talking about federal taxes. Money is taxed as it is earned, not where it is saved.

So your statement is unintentionally a lie. You're talking about income taxes. I'm curious as to what you mean by "almost all the cuts." The rich are getting enormous quantities of money back that, if not balanced by federal spending cuts, will put us another trillion or so dollars in debt each year. I apologize, but when I see Donald Trump writing off losses for decades to pay $0 in income tax next to the family that's struggling to make their car payment, then look up and see that cutting income tax for the rich is a huge priority, I'm pretty shocked by the widespread stupidity and ignorance.
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So am I. The bill hasn't even been written yet.
 
fmw said:
The "tax reform" is about income tax I believe, not FICA. FICA is meant as a tax to pay for benefits to be received during old age. Not the same thing. I'm a believer in government policies that are driven by equality, not fairness. If he wealthy receive more social security benefit then they should pay more for it.
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You claimed that "the top 20% pay almost all the taxes." You didn't limit that to income taxes. FICA are taxes.
 
MTAtech said:
You claimed that "the top 20% pay almost all the taxes." You didn't limit that to income taxes. FICA are taxes.
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You have my apology for omitting the word "income." FICA taxes are really payments into government retirement benefits.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
The top 20% pay most of the FICA taxes.

"Source?" M #463
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It's not insensible in matters such as these to communicate in complete sentences.

"The top 20%" what?
- wage earners?

- FICA contributors? Is there a $cap on FICA?
 
sear said:
It's not insensible in matters such as these to communicate in complete sentences.

"The top 20%" what?
- wage earners?

- FICA contributors? Is there a $cap on FICA?
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I requested the source for the declarative statement, "The top 20% pay most of the FICA taxes." I presume that "the top 20%" refers to those in the top 20% of income.

As a note, the taxes liberals want to raise are on the top 1%. A sly tactic is to mask the income inequality by broadening the field to the top 20%, which include middle class earners. As the graph below shows, the top 1% have 40% of national wealth and the bottom 80% have just 7%. That means that the top 20% have 93% of national wealth with the top 1% of the group owning 40% of that. the stark upward skewing of wealth and income is obvious.

Inequality_02.png
 
" I presume that "the top 20%" refers to those in the top 20% of income. " M #465
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But if there's a cap, that raises questions about the other 80% of revenue.

And yes. I understand wealth distribution is a serious issue in the U.S., far out of scale with the comparable range in some other nations.

I've forgotten the stat. But iirc, just in my ~half century of life, the range between line worker salary and CEO was about 20x.
I gather now the range has expanded to ten times that. And that doesn't include golden parachutes, and lots of other factors.

In New York, Governor Cuomo was reportedly recently petitioned by over 100 of New York State's wealthiest, complaining that they're not taxed enough.
 
MTAtech said:
I requested the source for the declarative statement, "The top 20% pay most of the FICA taxes." I presume that "the top 20%" refers to those in the top 20% of income.

As a note, the taxes liberals want to raise are on the top 1%. A sly tactic is to mask the income inequality by broadening the field to the top 20%, which include middle class earners. As the graph below shows, the top 1% have 40% of national wealth and the bottom 80% have just 7%. That means that the top 20% have 93% of national wealth with the top 1% of the group owning 40% of that. the stark upward skewing of wealth and income is obvious.

MG]
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Yeah but so what? They earned it. And its not a sly tactic, separating into quintiles is common way to break up 100%. Lets do it all.

51361-home-cover.png

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51361

Also, the top quintile is about 265k. Thats not middle class.
 
MTAtech said:
I asked for the source that would corroborate the statement, "The top 20% pay most of the FICA taxes," and I get a graph showing income taxes, not FICA taxes.
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You commented about more than that. And thats what I responded to.

"As a note, the taxes liberals want to raise are on the top 1%. A sly tactic is to mask the income inequality by broadening the field to the top 20%, which include middle class earners. As the graph below shows, the top 1% have 40% of national wealth and the bottom 80% have just 7%. That means that the top 20% have 93% of national wealth with the top 1% of the group owning 40% of that. the stark upward skewing of wealth and income is obvious."
 
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