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Conservatism vs Liberalism

First step is to actually have empathy for another human being.
 
Meh.

You've got to sign-up!
 
Everyone knows you get people out of poverty by cutting their health care to give massive tax breaks to the top few percent.
 
I did not join the club to watch their video.

Some see poverty as simply a lack of earned money (income) to support themselves and their dependents - that is easily "fixed" by taking from (taxing) those with "too much" money and giving it to those that can (or will) not support themselves. This, of course, makes them dependent on (addicted to?) handouts unless this "fix" requires some behavior change (taking away their "freedom"?) in return.
 
American said:
https://www.prageru.com/signup/fb-video-out-poverty


How do we get people out of poverty?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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PragerU is a corporate propaganda site. The Koch brothers and other corporate/Wall Street shills literally pay these people to say anything against the working class and the disenfranchised. I've addressed the dishonesty of some of their previous videos, and I'd be happy to watch and critique/discuss this video, too. But you're grabbed something behind a pay wall, and there's a 0% chance I'm giving them money.
 
FieldTheorist said:
PragerU is a corporate propaganda site. The Koch brothers and other corporate/Wall Street shills literally pay these people to say anything against the working class and the disenfranchised. I've addressed the dishonesty of some of their previous videos, and I'd be happy to watch and critique/discuss this video, too. But you're grabbed something behind a pay wall, and there's a 0% chance I'm giving them money.
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Guess we shouldn't consider that the Koch brothers, etc. wouldn't be **** without the 'working class'. Why would they bite the hands that made them wealthy?
 
Yeah, I'm not going to fork over money to some Wingnut Welfare site so I can read about how liberals are teh suxx0rz
 
Chomsky said:
Meh.

You've got to sign-up!
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ttwtt78640 said:
I did not join the club to watch their video.

Some see poverty as simply a lack of earned money (income) to support themselves and their dependents - that is easily "fixed" by taking from (taxing) those with "too much" money and giving it to those that can (or will) not support themselves. This, of course, makes them dependent on (addicted to?) handouts unless this "fix" requires some behavior change (taking away their "freedom"?) in return.
Click to expand...

FieldTheorist said:
PragerU is a corporate propaganda site. The Koch brothers and other corporate/Wall Street shills literally pay these people to say anything against the working class and the disenfranchised. I've addressed the dishonesty of some of their previous videos, and I'd be happy to watch and critique/discuss this video, too. But you're grabbed something behind a pay wall, and there's a 0% chance I'm giving them money.
Click to expand...

I think this is the video the OP is about:




The video boils down to:

Don't just give people money, require people to work in exchange for social assistance.

That this helps on two ways:

1. Helps them meet their immediate material needs, and

2. Helps them earn their own success, "The key to a fulfilling and dignified life."

That's the video's answer; the only way to get people out of poverty is to make them work in order to qualify for welfare.

MY take?

I can agree with the old adage "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

However, this video oversimplifies the process...IMO leading to a form of socio-economic slavery.

There must be real opportunity to work ones way OUT of poverty, as opposed to working one's way IN poverty.

That means there must be tangible and recognizable stepping stones to economic advancement up the wealth ladder rather than just "make-work" to justify paying welfare.

Otherwise you are just creating more resentment and discontent, while doing nothing to alleviate poverty.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
I think this is the video the OP is about:

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That video goes over well why I don't respect Hayek. He is also somewhat lying there on Hayek's views since he also supported a minimum income as well. Basically Hayek believed people should get food, clothing, shelter, and a minimum income at other people expense, which frankly I find repulsive.
 
FieldTheorist said:
PragerU is a corporate propaganda site. The Koch brothers and other corporate/Wall Street shills literally pay these people to say anything against the working class and the disenfranchised. I've addressed the dishonesty of some of their previous videos, and I'd be happy to watch and critique/discuss this video, too. But you're grabbed something behind a pay wall, and there's a 0% chance I'm giving them money.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they do, just as granted university projects have their own agenda. All could be considered propaganda sources. So what? I watched it for free on facebook. Not sure what your problem is.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I think this is the video the OP is about:




The video boils down to:

Don't just give people money, require people to work in exchange for social assistance.

That this helps on two ways:

1. Helps them meet their immediate material needs, and

2. Helps them earn their own success, "The key to a fulfilling and dignified life."

That's the video's answer; the only way to get people out of poverty is to make them work in order to qualify for welfare.

MY take?

I can agree with the old adage "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

However, this video oversimplifies the process...IMO leading to a form of socio-economic slavery.

There must be real opportunity to work ones way OUT of poverty, as opposed to working one's way IN poverty.

That means there must be tangible and recognizable stepping stones to economic advancement up the wealth ladder rather than just "make-work" to justify paying welfare.

Otherwise you are just creating more resentment and discontent, while doing nothing to alleviate poverty.
Click to expand...


It wouldn't happen under Obama, because he created lots of minimum wage jobs. Why would be so adamant about $15/hr? Average 2% growth doesn't give you high paying skilled jobs, which move you up the ladder. Of course our incompetent public school systems doesn't prepare the ordinary American for the labor force, because a high school diploma leaves you with no skills. So it's not simple process, but I think the principles are; and are conveyed in the video.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Everyone knows you get people out of poverty by cutting their health care to give massive tax breaks to the top few percent.
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Instead you take away people healthcare by killing the entire system, so you can introduce the government healthcare system; where they tell you where to go and what you're allowed while raising your premiums and deductibles to astronomical proportions.
 
It would not hurt to stop importing the low wage low skilled poor from so many other countries. We need to pay our own folks more, scaled back immigration reduces the over abundance in labor, which would then boil down to supply and demand. What will you pay an American worker?

Yes, benefits should only be handed out to those disabled and unable to work from natural causes... all able should work. I don't know how we stop the unwed mother crisis, bringing up children in homes without fathers and, most times, in poverty. That lifestyle does not promote particularly good futures.

Work, organization, goals... all these help people in myriad ways and gets them used to what a good life requires...

Effort.
 
I agree with the video. When someone realizes they need money but can't find work, they have an option to work a basic labor job for our government for money. I don't see how this isn't a win/win.
 
American said:
Instead you take away people healthcare by killing the entire system, so you can introduce the government healthcare system; where they tell you where to go and what you're allowed while raising your premiums and deductibles to astronomical proportions.
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Public healthcare in Germany is optional, it's about half the cost per capita of the American system and every man, woman, and child can have any operation or treatment the doctor of their choosing recommends, no questions asked. You're completely full of it, UHC does not raise premiums or deductibles, it's astronomically cheaper.

But please, tell me all about how we should rather have a system were the poor and lower middle class, tens of millions of Americans, don't have any health coverage at all. What a conservative utopia!
 
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WCH said:
Guess we shouldn't consider that the Koch brothers, etc. wouldn't be **** without the 'working class'. Why would they bite the hands that made them wealthy?
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That's a pretty naive question. Why did, only 100 years ago, John D. Rockafeller force his workers to work under armed guard, legally only be allowed to shop at his stores, and then have them murdered when they tried to protest these conditions?

The answer is always the same: Because it's easier to hire a new worker, so there's never any reason to care about your workers if they can't fight back. (That makes it doubly important to make sure that they can't fight back, which the Koch Brothers are intent on enforcing, via union-busting "right to work" laws, concentrating their power with money in politics, creating false media narratives like the one in this thread, and disbanding the social programs designed to help the working class.)
 
FieldTheorist said:
That's a pretty naive question. Why did, only 100 years ago, John D. Rockafeller force his workers to work under armed guard, legally only be allowed to shop at his stores, and then have them murdered when they tried to protest these conditions?

The answer is always the same: Because it's easier to hire a new worker, so there's never any reason to care about your workers if they can't fight back. (That makes it doubly important to make sure that they can't fight back, which the Koch Brothers are intent on enforcing, via union-busting "right to work" laws, concentrating their power with money in politics, creating false media narratives like the one in this thread, and disbanding the social programs designed to help the working class.)
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Now days you're fired/replaced for being lazy or complacent. Hardly forced into slave-like conditions.
 
WCH said:
Guess we shouldn't consider that the Koch brothers, etc. wouldn't be **** without the 'working class'. Why would they bite the hands that made them wealthy?
Click to expand...

The Koch bros., like DeVos, inherited their billions. They see it as a birthright, and the working class as fodder. The Koch's have been sued numerous times for causing deaths via gross negligence and safety violations.

Koch Industries: Corporate Rap Sheet | Corporate Research Project
 
Captain Adverse said:
I think this is the video the OP is about:




The video boils down to:

Don't just give people money, require people to work in exchange for social assistance.

That this helps on two ways:

1. Helps them meet their immediate material needs, and

2. Helps them earn their own success, "The key to a fulfilling and dignified life."

That's the video's answer; the only way to get people out of poverty is to make them work in order to qualify for welfare.

MY take?

I can agree with the old adage "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

However, this video oversimplifies the process...IMO leading to a form of socio-economic slavery.

There must be real opportunity to work ones way OUT of poverty, as opposed to working one's way IN poverty.

That means there must be tangible and recognizable stepping stones to economic advancement up the wealth ladder rather than just "make-work" to justify paying welfare.

Otherwise you are just creating more resentment and discontent, while doing nothing to alleviate poverty.
Click to expand...


One thing I noticed about the video is that they did not mention the group of people #3, the true bums who can but don't want to work and actually want to leach off society.
 
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