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Conservatism vs Liberalism

Porkuloss said:
The Koch bros., like DeVos, inherited their billions. They see it as a birthright, and the working class as fodder. The Koch's have been sued numerous times for causing deaths via gross negligence and safety violations.

Koch Industries: Corporate Rap Sheet | Corporate Research Project
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Gee, one can certainly expect a non-partisan objective analysis of the Koch Bros. by the good folks at CCCR.

I wonder who controls them?

Hmmmm

Introducing the Project | Corporate Research Project

CCCR's services are available at no charge to groups affiliated with the six networks. We can do this thanks to progressive funders such as the Needmor Fund, the Unitarian Universalist Veatch Program at Shelter Rock, the New World Foundation, the Tides Foundation and the Ottinger Foundation.​

Oh. So this is just another part of the Progressive Machine that has compiled this "report".

:lamo
 
WCH said:
Now days you're fired/replaced for being lazy or complacent. Hardly forced into slave-like conditions.
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You missed the point. You asked why a business person would screw over the employees that they need to make money. My response is that this is a silly argument, and I gave an extreme example on purpose to highlight the problems in your logic. As long as their workers are working (or they can find replacements for old workers), their workers problems aren't a concern, by definition, in a capitalist system. And as long as we're in a capitalist system, with minor exceptions, people have to work for a boss in order to survive. So there will always be more workers, and so there will never be a reason to care unless the workers have some means to fight back.
 
FieldTheorist said:
That's a pretty naive question. Why did, only 100 years ago, John D. Rockafeller force his workers to work under armed guard, legally only be allowed to shop at his stores, and then have them murdered when they tried to protest these conditions?

The answer is always the same: Because it's easier to hire a new worker, so there's never any reason to care about your workers if they can't fight back. (That makes it doubly important to make sure that they can't fight back, which the Koch Brothers are intent on enforcing, via union-busting "right to work" laws, concentrating their power with money in politics, creating false media narratives like the one in this thread, and disbanding the social programs designed to help the working class.)
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This.
 
Conservatiism = "I've got mine, I'm keeping it. Screw you."

Let me elaborate briefly on the Empathy requirement. I believe it is a corner stone for the development of human civilization for all of us. We are the only species on this planet that has developed the capacity to put themselves into someone else's circumstances. To understand their wants and needs. No species on earth demonstrates any concern for any other of their species other than their immediate group, herd, flock family, offspring, etc. "I've got my cave, food, woman, tools, and I'm don't care what you want. We would still by fighting over shelter and food. We sure wouldn't have hospital and doctors. "It is your tough luck you fell down that cliff." How do governments stay in power without understanding (empathizing) about the wants of the masses. Brute force does work for a while.

How could we develop trade without understanding of the other person's wants and desires. Civilization could not have developed without it.

Capitalism = The transfer of resources to yourself faster than you expend resources. For you to gain, someone has to lose. "I've got mine, Screw you."

Liberalism if full of empathy. To follow Christian values which emphasizes empathy for others.

People complain about taxes. I say, "I am so grateful to be in a 25% tax bracket." So grateful I have both of my homes paid for and can travel and do pretty much what I want. I have to remind myself not to complain about taxes as I take money out of my 401K now that I am down into the 25% bracket. Poor me. I've got savings to worry about.

Our perceptions and biases are a product of our experience. I worked in health care. I did Home Health services. Went into the homes of every ethic group, religious group, economic group. Saw how they lived. Saw what they ate. Saw what resources were available to them. Worked in Appalachia, St. Louis slums, Rich gated communities with security. public schools, nursing homes, hospitals, state institutions etc. Just about everywhere people need health care services.

My neighbor is a full blown racist but otherwise a nice guy. He thinks blacks are animals. Latinos worse. I can't fault him his attitudes as he spent 7 years in Federal Prison. They ARE full of ANIMALS and the white guys are a minority. I might feel the same way if I had that experience.

I understand how lucky the conservatives are. How thankful they should be. They just haven't had the experiences I have had. They just look dumbfounded when I point out the fact that 50% of Americans have an IQ less than 100. Like they thought EVERYBODY was just like them. Everybody around them are. It's NORMAL.

THOSE PEOPLE are just lazy. You are considered disabled with an IQ under 70. Not everybody is college material. Quite a few struggle with high school and technical training.

Conservatism vs. Liberalism IS class warfare....
 
Enlighten Me said:
Conservatiism = "I've got mine, I'm keeping it. Screw you."

Let me elaborate briefly on the Empathy requirement. I believe it is a corner stone for the development of human civilization for all of us. We are the only species on this planet that has developed the capacity to put themselves into someone else's circumstances. To understand their wants and needs. No species on earth demonstrates any concern for any other of their species other than their immediate group, herd, flock family, offspring, etc. "I've got my cave, food, woman, tools, and I'm don't care what you want. We would still by fighting over shelter and food. We sure wouldn't have hospital and doctors. "It is your tough luck you fell down that cliff." How do governments stay in power without understanding (empathizing) about the wants of the masses. Brute force does work for a while.

How could we develop trade without understanding of the other person's wants and desires. Civilization could not have developed without it.

Capitalism = The transfer of resources to yourself faster than you expend resources. For you to gain, someone has to lose. "I've got mine, Screw you."

Liberalism if full of empathy. To follow Christian values which emphasizes empathy for others.

People complain about taxes. I say, "I am so grateful to be in a 25% tax bracket." So grateful I have both of my homes paid for and can travel and do pretty much what I want. I have to remind myself not to complain about taxes as I take money out of my 401K now that I am down into the 25% bracket. Poor me. I've got savings to worry about.

Our perceptions and biases are a product of our experience. I worked in health care. I did Home Health services. Went into the homes of every ethic group, religious group, economic group. Saw how they lived. Saw what they ate. Saw what resources were available to them. Worked in Appalachia, St. Louis slums, Rich gated communities with security. public schools, nursing homes, hospitals, state institutions etc. Just about everywhere people need health care services.

My neighbor is a full blown racist but otherwise a nice guy. He thinks blacks are animals. Latinos worse. I can't fault him his attitudes as he spent 7 years in Federal Prison. They ARE full of ANIMALS and the white guys are a minority. I might feel the same way if I had that experience.

I understand how lucky the conservatives are. How thankful they should be. They just haven't had the experiences I have had. They just look dumbfounded when I point out the fact that 50% of Americans have an IQ less than 100. Like they thought EVERYBODY was just like them. Everybody around them are. It's NORMAL.

THOSE PEOPLE are just lazy. You are considered disabled with an IQ under 70. Not everybody is college material. Quite a few struggle with high school and technical training.

Conservatism vs. Liberalism IS class warfare....
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Please explain how you are a moderate.
 
Moderate Right said:
Please explain how you are a moderate.
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He may lean left, but he just rattled off a pretty long post about his ability to understand that someone else may have a different perspective than him based on their experiences. That's what moderate is, the ability to disagree without being disagreeable.

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American said:
https://www.prageru.com/signup/fb-video-out-poverty


How do we get people out of poverty?

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Well, take blacks in poverty for instance - quit having children out of wedlock, consigning them to a poor, one parent family. Some 72% of black babies are born out of wedlock.

My family didn't have a lot of money so I managed to get into the military out of high school, and then when I got out I worked and went to college on the GI Bill. And that's a ticket out of the ghetto for all who will listen. Just do enough to get a G.E.D. and then you can get in the military, and then you've got a chance.
 
Logicman said:
Well, take blacks in poverty for instance - quit having children out of wedlock, consigning them to a poor, one parent family. Some 72% of black babies are born out of wedlock.

My family didn't have a lot of money so I managed to get into the military out of high school, and then when I got out I worked and went to college on the GI Bill. And that's a ticket out of the ghetto for all who will listen. Just do enough to get a G.E.D. and then you can get in the military, and then you've got a chance.
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I thought you were against government allowing women to control their reproductive roles, but it's okay for government to tell women how many kids that they can't have?
 
Critter7r said:
He may lean left, but he just rattled off a pretty long post about his ability to understand that someone else may have a different perspective than him based on their experiences. That's what moderate is, the ability to disagree without being disagreeable.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
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That doesn't have anything at all to do with being a moderate. You are either a moderate or you're not, no matter what level of disagreeable you are. The fact that you are defending him and John liked your post only further proves that he is no moderate.
 
Logicman said:
Well, take blacks in poverty for instance - quit having children out of wedlock, consigning them to a poor, one parent family. Some 72% of black babies are born out of wedlock.

My family didn't have a lot of money so I managed to get into the military out of high school, and then when I got out I worked and went to college on the GI Bill. And that's a ticket out of the ghetto for all who will listen. Just do enough to get a G.E.D. and then you can get in the military, and then you've got a chance.
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So you advocate abortion?
 
Here again. The BLACKS are the problem. Screw the Blacks. They deserve to be poor. Your lack of REAL knowledge is showing.
I bet you wouldn't call yourself a racist. You are just talking about THOSE people. Right?

The percentage of whites is double the percentage of blacks.

FYI: For Medicaid Enrollment

White Black Hispanic Other

41% 22% 25% 12%

Below is my data source. What is yours? FYI: For Medicaid Enrollment

Medicaid Enrollment by Race/Ethnicity | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

72% of blacks are born out of wedlock.
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I beg to differ.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db162.htm

•Nonmarital births and birth rates have declined 7% and 14%, respectively, since peaking in the late 2000s.

•Births to unmarried women totaled 1,605,643 in 2013. About 4 in 10 U.S. births were to unmarried women in each year from 2007 through 2013.

•Nonmarital birth rates fell in all age groups under 35 since 2007; rates increased for women aged 35 and over.
•Birth rates were down more for unmarried black and Hispanic women than for unmarried non-Hispanic white women.



Everybody, if my info is wrong please correct me with you sources of information. This is how we learn. I WILL do the same for you. Just responsible and accurate posting.
 
Moderate Right said:
Please explain how you are a moderate.
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It depends where you are sitting on the road to figure out if I am left of you or on the right of you.

If you aren't sitting in the middle of the road, your perception of me is likely in error.

It depends on what subject we are talking about. I am liberal on some. conservative on others. Mostly looking for the middle ground on issues instead of the polarization and ranting we see in America today.

There ARE problems with our 'welfare' programs. Most solutions are not very workable unless you are OK letting people starve. I seek workable solutions.
 
NOBODY is talking about the jobs programs for Ex-Offenders. Many live in poverty. Many return to their pervious occupation dealing drugs. We don't pretend to 'rehabilitate' criminals any more. The President promised them nothing.

Growth of Ex-Offender Population in United States Is a Dramatic Drag on Economy | Press Releases | Press Center | The Center for Economic and Policy Research

Washington DC- Three decades of harsh criminal justice policies have created a large population of ex-offenders that struggle in the labor market long after they have paid their debts to society, according to a new report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR). Because prison records and felony convictions greatly lower ex-offenders' chances of finding work, the United States loses between $57 billion and $65 billion a year in lost output.

“It isn't just that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, we have created a situation over the last 30 years where about one in eight men is an ex-offender,” said John Schmitt, a Senior Economist at CEPR and a co-author of the report.

National-Level Estimates
We begin with estimates of the total number of current and ex-prisoners. Based on our Bureau
of Justice Statistics sources, there are currently 2.5 million adults in prison and on parole in the U.S.
Added to this are 5.2 million former prisoners in the population, which leads to a total of 7.7 million
current and ex-prisoners in the U.S.

If they are under employed or not employed and not figured into the 'fake' unemployment rate which many aren't, they are likely receiving welfare of one type or another..

Well, according to that a LOT of you know how that affects your employability. Every application I have ever filled out asks, "have you ever been arrested" or "have you ever been convicted of a crime" and they check to see if I lie.

Some talk about sealing the criminal histories for non violent felons, non sex offenders. Misdemeanors and such. That would get them off welfare and into the work force paying taxes. Not much traction in political circles though. Guess we keep them on the dole using our tax dollars? They USED to have work gangs. Now they get a free ride through life in poverty. Shouldn't they be working?
 
American said:
Instead you take away people healthcare by killing the entire system, so you can introduce the government healthcare system; where they tell you where to go and what you're allowed while raising your premiums and deductibles to astronomical proportions.
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ACA insured over 20 million that didn't have insurance before. The ACA put caps on how much insurance companies could raise your premiums whereas before there was nothing to stop them.


I think the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution to affordable healthcare. I wish we didn't need them.
 
Moot said:
ACA insured over 20 million that didn't have insurance before. The ACA put caps on how much insurance companies could raise your premiums whereas before there was nothing to stop them.


I think the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution to affordable healthcare. I wish we didn't need them.
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25% caps, and tens of thousands in deductibles? Thanks, Obama.
 
Moot said:
He has empathy.
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Another word for empathy is "sucker". The left feels "empathy" for people who don't want to work and want to freeload off of everyone else or people who have no desire to do what it takes to get ahead. I have empathy for those that truly need help but I'm not a sucker.
 
Moot said:
ACA insured over 20 million that didn't have insurance before. The ACA put caps on how much insurance companies could raise your premiums whereas before there was nothing to stop them.


I think the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution to affordable healthcare. I wish we didn't need them.
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Insurance companies are not the problem in regards to affordable healthcare. The problem is that our healthcare is way too expensive. Your premiums are high because our hospitals, drug companies, and specialists charge more for their services than just about anywhere else in the world, and by quite a margin. In fact, as it stands now, the negotiated rates that insurers negotiate with providers in their networks is the only hedge against cost growth.

We are never going have a solution to out of control healthcare costs until one side (the left) quits just blaming insurance companies, and the other side (the right) gets over their delusion that healthcare is just a commodity like anything else in the economy.
 
American said:
25% caps, and tens of thousands in deductibles? Thanks, Obama.
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High deductible plans are the hallmark of every single conservative idea for health reform. The industry calls them "consumer driven plans". Don't you like the "freedom" of a high deductible plan? That is how Republicans sell them.
 
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Moderate Right said:
Another word for empathy is "sucker". The left feels "empathy" for people who don't want to work and want to freeload off of everyone else or people who have no desire to do what it takes to get ahead. I have empathy for those that truly need help but I'm not a sucker.
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There's a word for people that say empathy is for suckers, and it's "cynical".

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American said:
25% caps, and tens of thousands in deductibles? Thanks, Obama.
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More like 15 to 20%....

"...One of the provisions in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a ACA, a.k.a. Health Reform, a.k.a. Obamacare) is that it limits the profits of health insurance companies. The ACA imposes a minimum medical loss ratio (MLR) on all insurers. The MLR is the amount of money spent on covered person medical care divided by the total revenue received through premiums.

The ACA requires health insurers in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of their premiums (after subtracting taxes and regulatory fees) on medical costs. The corresponding figure for large groups is 85 percent...."​


What was the cap before the ACA? Oh wait, there wasn't one.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Insurance companies are not the problem in regards to affordable healthcare. The problem is that our healthcare is way too expensive. Your premiums are high because our hospitals, drug companies, and specialists charge more for their services than just about anywhere else in the world, and by quite a margin. In fact, as it stands now, the negotiated rates that insurers negotiate with providers in their networks is the only hedge against cost growth.

We are never going have a solution to out of control healthcare costs until one side (the left) quits just blaming insurance companies, and the other side (the right) gets over their delusion that healthcare is just a commodity like anything else in the economy.
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The insurance companies are a big part of the problem....and the reason we don't have single pay universal coverage.


4. Healthcare is not Consumerized

Another reason for the rise in health insurance costs is healthcare is not yet fully consumerized. Most people do not pay directly for their health insurance -- their employer does. As a result, most people are disconnected from making truly informed decisions about their cost of care and their coverage.

5. Lack of Cost Transparency

Despite a wealth of information at our fingertips via medical journals and the Internet, there is no uniform or quick way to understand treatment options and the costs associated with them. This lack of cost transparency means consumers cannot make truly informed decisions - even if they are savvy healthcare consumers.

6. Carrier Consolidation

As Reid Rasmussen reported in a Benefits Pro article earlier this month, carrier consolidation will lead to decreased cost competition and higher costs. For example, the five largest health insurance companies are reducing to three with Aetna (#3) buying Humana (#5), and Anthem (#2) absorbing Cigna (#4). Additionally Assurant exited the health insurance business last year, 22 of the 23 PPACA-created co-ops have closed, and United Healthcare made news this month as they are leaving many ACA Marketplaces.

7. Fewer Plan Options & Smaller Provider Networks

As healthcare and health insurance costs rise, health insurance companies need a way to control costs. One approach is to limit plans offered. Another is to limit the provider networks. The result? Consumers in many markets are finding fewer plan options and have reduced access to doctors and providers.


https://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/8-reasons-health-insurance-costs-continue-to-rise​


There is never going to be lower healthcare costs if you don't stop blaming the left.
 
Moot said:
More like 15 to 20%....

"...One of the provisions in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a ACA, a.k.a. Health Reform, a.k.a. Obamacare) is that it limits the profits of health insurance companies. The ACA imposes a minimum medical loss ratio (MLR) on all insurers. The MLR is the amount of money spent on covered person medical care divided by the total revenue received through premiums.

The ACA requires health insurers in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of their premiums (after subtracting taxes and regulatory fees) on medical costs. The corresponding figure for large groups is 85 percent...."​


What was the cap before the ACA? Oh wait, there wasn't one.
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That's irrelevant, because ACA was suppose to cost less, not more. So find someone else if you want to deflect away from Obama's failure.
 
Critter7r said:
There's a word for people that say empathy is for suckers, and it's "cynical".

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Anyone who doesn't believe that there are indeed lazy ass bums who want to mooch off others is a sucker. These moochers should suffer and be poor. I don't care about any of them. People legitimately in need of help is a different story and our country does not help them enough.
 
Moderate Right said:
Another word for empathy is "sucker". The left feels "empathy" for people who don't want to work and want to freeload off of everyone else or people who have no desire to do what it takes to get ahead. I have empathy for those that truly need help but I'm not a sucker.
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Empathy is the glue that holds civilized society together.


"To empathize is to civilize and to civilize is to empathize"....

https://www.ted.com/talks/jeremy_rifkin_on_the_empathic_civilization
 
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