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US National debt is beyond staggering

KLATTU

KLATTU

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The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...

Forever is the next election cycle for congress critters and their re-election rate is above 90%. With our system of fierce competition between the party for a bigger federal government and the party for a huge federal government we will likely continue to borrow and spend.
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...

The liberal economists have told the politicians what they want to hear - that debt is positive for the economy. Actually, since most of the debt is in the hands of the FED and since the FED creates the money out of thin air, it is likely that there isn't all that much debt. The people are paying for it by the loss in the value of the dollar. It is like a tax. However, a 70% cut in the cost of government would go a long way toward making it better.
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...

Theoretically we can just pay the interest forever and be fine. Governments don't die. I know how to fix the budget crisis. Raise taxes. But I can already hear the Republicans crying and belly aching. Raise taxes, cut defense, and provide free college. That will fix your budget problem.
 
I actually like Buffets position on solving the nations debt. Tie reelection and retirement benefits of congressmen to the debt. If they dont pass a balanced budget with an active plan to pay down the debt and stick to it, they cannot get reelected and their retirement benefits go away.

They would find a way to solve the problem.
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...

I continue to be amazed that you keep on trotting this stupid argument out, even though you have always failed to demonstrate any problems caused by sovereign debt.
 
VanceMack said:
I actually like Buffets position on solving the nations debt. Tie reelection and retirement benefits of congressmen to the debt. If they dont pass a balanced budget with an active plan to pay down the debt and stick to it, they cannot get reelected and their retirement benefits go away.

They would find a way to solve the problem.
Click to expand...

A balanced U.S. budget would be a good way to bring down the whole world's economy.

The most powerful country on the planet, with the largest economy, is now firmly in the hands of economic illiterates. That should be the story.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
A balanced U.S. budget would be a good way to bring down the whole world's economy.

The most powerful country on the planet, with the largest economy, is now firmly in the hands of economic illiterates. That should be the story.
Click to expand...
No...the most powerful country on the planet has spent money like a bunch of crack whores heaping mountains of debt on people that wont be born for another decade. That IS the story. It sure is awesome spending future generations money...right?
 
VanceMack said:
No...the most powerful country on the planet has spent money like a bunch of crack whores heaping mountains of debt on people that wont be born for another decade. That IS the story. It sure is awesome spending future generations money...right?
Click to expand...

We have had a national debt for the vast majority of our 250 years. Are we somehow paying for what our ancestors spent? If so, please explain your reasoning.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
We have had a national debt for the vast majority of our 250 years. Are we somehow paying for what our ancestors spent? If so, please explain your reasoning.
Click to expand...
Yes...we are in fact paying on what past generations spent. Mind you...if our income levels are low enough (assuming you have a job) you would never feel it because someone else is on the hook for your debt...but yes...the average debt bill per US taxpayer on our current 18+trillion debt is over 150k. But as long as that is someone else ponying up the cash...who cares...right?
 
VanceMack said:
No...the most powerful country on the planet has spent money like a bunch of crack whores heaping mountains of debt on people that wont be born for another decade. That IS the story. It sure is awesome spending future generations money...right?
Click to expand...

Depends.. if it means that future generations will make MORE money because they have better infrastructure, or the world is more secure, in other words the investments pay off.. ... then yes.. it is awesome "spending future generations money"...

Just think what the country would be.. if Jefferson had refused to buy the Louisiana Purchase because he didn't want to increase US national debt.
 
jaeger19 said:
Depends.. if it means that future generations will make MORE money because they have better infrastructure, or the world is more secure, in other words the investments pay off.. ... then yes.. it is awesome "spending future generations money"...

Just think what the country would be.. if Jefferson had refused to buy the Louisiana Purchase because he didn't want to increase US national debt.
Click to expand...
Do you feel we have a control on our current debt spending?
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...

Staggering and it is programmed to get much worse as the unfunded liabilities to the Boomers get paid out and the deferred maintenance on the infrastructure can no longer be deferred.

We have been sure for three decades that we were getting ourselves into this situation.

We never cared enough to change our behavior.

We instead royally ****ed our decedents.

They will not remember us fondly.
 
VanceMack said:
Do you feel we have a control on our current debt spending?
Click to expand...

Nope..

and that's one reason that going to a balanced budget would be a bad idea.
 
jaeger19 said:
Depends.. if it means that future generations will make MORE money because they have better infrastructure, or the world is more secure, in other words the investments pay off.. ... then yes.. it is awesome "spending future generations money"...

Just think what the country would be.. if Jefferson had refused to buy the Louisiana Purchase because he didn't want to increase US national debt.
Click to expand...

The infrastructure is rotting, and the world is falling apart, The debt will explode as far as they eye can see, and the economy is dying due to lack of sound management of the national and global economies...this is the road to certain doom.
 
jaeger19 said:
Nope..

and that's one reason that going to a balanced budget would be a bad idea.
Click to expand...
A balanced budget today would include allocating funds to pay down existing debt.

Frankly...we are ether serious about this or not. If we are goin to treat the next 8 years like we treated the last 8 yeas, then we might as well be like the guy that strapped a JATO unit to his Gremlin and went for a wild ride. Screw it. Pay off everyones homes. Pay off everyones student loans. Free healthcare. We own those printing presses...put them to work. Party like it doesnt matter...because apparently...it doesnt.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Staggering and it is programmed to get much worse as the unfunded liabilities to the Boomers get paid out and the deferred maintenance on the infrastructure can no longer be deferred.

We have been sure for three decades that we were getting ourselves into this situation.

We never cared enough to change our behavior.

We instead royally ****ed our decedents.

They will not remember us fondly.
Click to expand...

No they wilChart_12-3-09.gifl not.
 
KLATTU said:
The $20 trillion debt is already twice the annual revenues collected by all the world’s governments combined.


ounting unfunded liabilities, which include promised Social Security, Medicare, and government pension payments that Washington will not have the money to pay, the federal government actually owes somewhere between $100 trillion and $200 trillion. The numbers are so ridiculously large that even the uncertainty in the figures exceeds the annual economic output of the entire planet
https://fee.org/articles/trillions-in-debt-and-were-just-scratching-the-surface/

I'm reminded of the old adage- if sometiing can't go on forever,it won't.
Click to expand...
Did you just notice this today? :mrgreen:

Conservatives and Republicans have been saying this for like 40 years. And yet, not only does it still go on, they keep doing things to make it worse -- notably slash taxes and increase defense spending. Go figure.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes...we are in fact paying on what past generations spent. Mind you...if our income levels are low enough (assuming you have a job) you would never feel it because someone else is on the hook for your debt...but yes...the average debt bill per US taxpayer on our current 18+trillion debt is over 150k. But as long as that is someone else ponying up the cash...who cares...right?
Click to expand...

Has the government sent you a bill for $150,000?

Here's an exercise for you: try to demonstrate exactly how (or if) we are paying for our ancestors' past spending. First, discard your preconceived notions. Then, go through the mechanics of where the government gets its money, how it spends, how deficit spending works, etc. Does deficit spending really cause inflation? Either prove all of the goofy explanations that the right regularly trots out when we talk about the "national debt," or discard them altogether. Better to be correct, isn't it?

Government debt is completely different than private debt. We all understand private debt pretty well. Your problem - and it's not uncommon - is that you think government debt and private debt are the same thing. That governments borrow money from somebody else in order to spend, just like you or I would to buy a car. In fact, governments simply issue financial assets, created from nothing, to pay for spending over and above what they collect in taxes. They don't take out loans from banks, and they don't remove assets from the economy. Governments are unique entities, special banks unto themselves.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Has the government sent you a bill for $150,000?

Here's an exercise for you: try to demonstrate exactly how (or if) we are paying for our ancestors' past spending. First, discard your preconceived notions. Then, go through the mechanics of where the government gets its money, how it spends, how deficit spending works, etc. Does deficit spending really cause inflation? Either prove all of the goofy explanations that the right regularly trots out when we talk about the "national debt," or discard them altogether. Better to be correct, isn't it?

Government debt is completely different than private debt. We all understand private debt pretty well. Your problem - and it's not uncommon - is that you think government debt and private debt are the same thing. That governments borrow money from somebody else in order to spend, just like you or I would to buy a car. In fact, governments simply issue financial assets, created from nothing, to pay for spending over and above what they collect in taxes. They don't take out loans from banks, and they don't remove assets from the economy. Governments are unique entities, special banks unto themselves.
Click to expand...

If you dont understand that there is this massive amount of taxes collected and this massive amount of that massive amount allocated to debt spending, there isnt much more to talk about. If you dont CARE about that money that is allocated to debt spending...you are the problem.

Ad my guess is...you arent being handed much of a tax bill to have to worry about at all...amiright?
 
Visbek said:
Did you just notice this today? :mrgreen:

Conservatives and Republicans have been saying this for like 40 years. And yet, not only does it still go on, they keep doing things to make it worse -- notably slash taxes and increase defense spending. Go figure.
Click to expand...

No, actually We the People can not avoid responsibility, we are the boss, we knew this was what we were doing and we kept doing it.

Your post is partisan hackery.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Has the government sent you a bill for $150,000?

Here's an exercise for you: try to demonstrate exactly how (or if) we are paying for our ancestors' past spending. First, discard your preconceived notions. Then, go through the mechanics of where the government gets its money, how it spends, how deficit spending works, etc. Does deficit spending really cause inflation? Either prove all of the goofy explanations that the right regularly trots out when we talk about the "national debt," or discard them altogether. Better to be correct, isn't it?

Government debt is completely different than private debt. We all understand private debt pretty well. Your problem - and it's not uncommon - is that you think government debt and private debt are the same thing. That governments borrow money from somebody else in order to spend, just like you or I would to buy a car. In fact, governments simply issue financial assets, created from nothing, to pay for spending over and above what they collect in taxes. They don't take out loans from banks, and they don't remove assets from the economy. Governments are unique entities, special banks unto themselves.
Click to expand...

Really?
The University of Michigan's Health and Retirement Study found that only about one third of Americans ages 50 and older were able to correctly answer three simple questions about how compound interest works, what inflation means for one's savings and investment gains, and the basic differences between a single stock and a mutual fund
Click to expand...

The incredibly high cost of Americans''' financial stupidity | Fortune.com
 
Visbek said:
Did you just notice this today? :mrgreen:

Conservatives and Republicans have been saying this for like 40 years. And yet, not only does it still go on, they keep doing things to make it worse -- notably slash taxes and increase defense spending. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Hmm, is defense spending the problem?

figure 1a.jpg

And I wish Republican would sop with their obsession with tax cuts but raising taxes isn't much of an answer, since they have a contractory effect on the economy.
 
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VanceMack said:
If you dont understand that there is this massive amount of taxes collected and this massive amount of that massive amount allocated to debt spending, there isnt much more to talk about. If you dont CARE about that money that is allocated to debt spending...you are the problem.

Ad my guess is...you arent being handed much of a tax bill to have to worry about at all...amiright?
Click to expand...

If it's a pissing contest you are interested in, then I am part of the upper 10% of income earners, plus I own property. I pay plenty of taxes.

If it's a debate you are interested in, then you need to do more than point to some big numbers and say, "Bad! Bad numbers!"

100% of the money we pay in taxes is spent right back into the economy, as long as the government isn't stupid enough to run a surplus. Tax money is not "allocated to debt spending," otherwise IT WOULDN'T BE DEBT SPENDING. These are very basic things that you are whiffing on. Deficit spending is a straight addition of financial assets to the private sector; it increases GDP and it puts more money in our pockets. If you think that there is a downside to that, then make your case.
 
Winston said:
Theoretically we can just pay the interest forever and be fine. Governments don't die. I know how to fix the budget crisis. Raise taxes. But I can already hear the Republicans crying and belly aching. Raise taxes, cut defense, and provide free college. That will fix your budget problem.
Click to expand...

It's already been made clear there isn't enough money out there, no matter what level taxes are raised to. Also, you'd have to tax everyone, not just a small minority.
 
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