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Trump Agenda Issue One; Obamacare.

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Trump Agenda Issue One; Obamacare:

Obamacare.

Admit that the Republicans gutted Obamacare and just have guts in whatever you replace it with or be like the joke where the hungover hunter is shoving deer guts back up his ### (keep Obamacare.)

Additionally if there had been just a little more stimulus that they ran around crying, “failed stimulus,” that you forgot already, the affordable care act would have been even more affordable.

Use these in your calculations as to what to do.

If you get your 33% tax bracket are you going to be paying this?

If not then you haven’t fixed anything.

We need 33% of GDP.
 
Trump Agenda Issue One; Obamacare:

Obamacare.

Admit that the Republicans gutted Obamacare and just have guts in whatever you replace it with or be like the joke where the hungover hunter is shoving deer guts back up his ### (keep Obamacare.)

Additionally if there had been just a little more stimulus that they ran around crying, “failed stimulus,” that you forgot already, the affordable care act would have been even more affordable.

Use these in your calculations as to what to do.

If you get your 33% tax bracket are you going to be paying this?

If not then you haven’t fixed anything.

We need 33% of GDP.

So you want Trump to perpetuate a dishonest Liberal talking point, go against the majority in Congress and against the wishes of his supporters ?

Lol !! You wish.
No, ObamaCare is part of a larger agenda thats been throroughly rejected over the last 3 election cycles. The GOP didnt ruin it, " gut it " or make it worse, it was horrible from its inception and its no one's fault but the Democrats

Their supporters chose to hitch their wagon behind that abomination and that was theyre mistake so stop blaming it on the GOP
 
So you want Trump to perpetuate a dishonest Liberal talking point, go against the majority in Congress and against the wishes of his supporters ?

Lol !! You wish.
No, ObamaCare is part of a larger agenda thats been throroughly rejected over the last 3 election cycles. The GOP didnt ruin it, " gut it " or make it worse, it was horrible from its inception and its no one's fault but the Democrats

Their supporters chose to hitch their wagon behind that abomination and that was theyre mistake so stop blaming it on the GOP

I specifically did not tell him what to do.

I am asking, "how can we meet this trajectory?"

Then there's the 2000 Democrat trajectory to meet, you don't want them to match you (floor it,) wait, the road may be icy.
 
So you want Trump to perpetuate a dishonest Liberal talking point, go against the majority in Congress and against the wishes of his supporters ?

Lol !! You wish.
No, ObamaCare is part of a larger agenda thats been throroughly rejected over the last 3 election cycles. The GOP didnt ruin it, " gut it " or make it worse, it was horrible from its inception and its no one's fault but the Democrats

Their supporters chose to hitch their wagon behind that abomination and that was theyre mistake so stop blaming it on the GOP

You want me to stop blaming it in the GOP?

Ok, what they saw as an Obamanation; liberal, still I think the fact was it was gutted and the poor stimulus; certainly kept to a half measure and they are guilty by their own mouths going around crying, "failed stimulus," but you forgot this already, not you, Fenton as a Conservative, I mean as the public.

The only reason Republicans opposed ACA was because it was in Democrat hands and the mass hysteria was all Hill generated so now that it's in the Republicans hands; look, the providence, what are they going to do? They should come up with the same thing, and not gut it, and put forth some stimulus to help people catch up to where they would have been if you people didn't have to be fighting and the people didn't choose Reprobate in 2000 and now in 2016.

I like Ryan, he's a good clean guy and so is Pence and the President can come across pretty clean unlike the woman he deposed, so let us count our fortune, and all see together our leaders to a moderate path.
 
Obama care certainly needs a few fixes. Waiting for the GOP to do something, but doubtful they will.
 
You want me to stop blaming it in the GOP?

Ok, what they saw as an Obamanation; liberal, still I think the fact was it was gutted and the poor stimulus; certainly kept to a half measure and they are guilty by their own mouths going around crying, "failed stimulus," but you forgot this already, not you, Fenton as a Conservative, I mean as the public.

The only reason Republicans opposed ACA was because it was in Democrat hands and the mass hysteria was all Hill generated so now that it's in the Republicans hands; look, the providence, what are they going to do? They should come up with the same thing, and not gut it, and put forth some stimulus to help people catch up to where they would have been if you people didn't have to be fighting and the people didn't choose Reprobate in 2000 and now in 2016.

I like Ryan, he's a good clean guy and so is Pence and the President can come across pretty clean unlike the woman he deposed, so let us count our fortune, and all see together our leaders to a moderate path.

Republicans opposed it as did theyre constituents because they knew it was going to be a disaster, and they were right.

Also, it didnt fail because the GOP opposed it, it failed because it was a terrible law.

Voters will ignore partisan criticisms on a issue like the ACA if the law is actually delivering on its promises.

Theyre not mindless sheep who are so easily influenced by hysteria and hyperbole and opposition in and of itself has little power. No, what influences voters decsions are results, and the Democrats need to wise up and stop pretending Obama and his agenda had nothing to do with their substantial losses over the last 6 years
 
Republicans opposed it as did theyre constituents because they knew it was going to be a disaster, and they were right.

So this is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though, because Obamacare was based on the Heritage proposal from the 90's and Romneycare in MA in the 00's. I'm not sure insuring 28,000,000 people is a disaster while keeping premium increases -on average- below what they were prior to the ACA. The problem Conservatives have is how do you create a universal access system that is affordable for all patients. Apart from single payer, there is no way to do that. Conservatives are going to find out rather quickly that because of how Obamacare is structured, repealing it will create more problems than what currently exist. Fixing Obamacare's issues are really simple; expand Medicaid everywhere and introduce a Public Option. What Obamacare has done is show that the for-profit insurance industry is extraneous and a parasite on our health care system, nor can it be sustained as a business model that guarantees patient coverage and results in a profit. The two cannot exist in the same space in a for-profit market.


Also, it didnt fail because the GOP opposed it, it failed because it was a terrible law.

It's not that terrible a law. Your big hissyfit seems to be surrounding the requirement that everyone buys insurance. Well, if you don't want to buy insurance, then you should be arguing for Medicare-for-all. That way, all you have is a payroll tax and that's it. No more premiums, no more co-pays, no more deductibles, no more co-insurance, no more prescription drug costs. Employers don't have to cede a large chunk of their budgets for benefits (the average worker costs $17K to insure, with the employee paying about $5K and the employer paying about $12K).


Voters will ignore partisan criticisms on a issue like the ACA if the law is actually delivering on its promises.

It is delivering on its promises. 28 million people now have insurance. Medicare's solvency was extended thanks to switching to an outcome-based model. The uninsured rate is the lowest ever. Premiums, on average, have risen at rates below that of the 8 years prior to Obamacare. With subsidies, the average family is saving money. Like Julie Boonstra...you remember her, right? She was that GOP sow who cried fake tears about how she was a victim of Obamacare when the reality is that she benefited from the law and saved ~$2,500 a year thanks to the subsidies...the amount Obama said she would. Does the law still need work? Yes, it's far from perfect. But there is no doubt it is a marked improvement upon what was in place before.

Theyre not mindless sheep who are so easily influenced by hysteria and hyperbole and opposition in and of itself has little power. No, what influences voters decsions are results, and the Democrats need to wise up and stop pretending Obama and his agenda had nothing to do with their substantial losses over the last 6 years

Well, Hillary did win the popular vote by a significant margin. While Trump won the electoral college. Based on the aggregate vote totals, voters clearly preferred Democrats to Republicans. It's just a technicality that Trump won. Add to this that Russia was working with the Trump campaign, and you don't really get the picture you're describing. And substantial losses? What about 2012? Didn't Democrats pick up Senate and House seats? And they picked up Senate and House seats in 2016 too. So you are holding up two mid-term elections -that had the lowest voter turnout in years- as indicative of a larger public mood when we just finished an election where Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, Democrats picked up House and Senate seats, and a couple state legislatures. Modest gains, but gains nonetheless. Conservatives have really gerrymandered themselves into a corner. With an expected court ruling tossing out all those gerrymandered maps, 2018 will be an interesting year.
 
Republicans opposed it as did theyre constituents because they knew it was going to be a disaster, and they were right.

Also, it didnt fail because the GOP opposed it, it failed because it was a terrible law.

Voters will ignore partisan criticisms on a issue like the ACA if the law is actually delivering on its promises.

Theyre not mindless sheep who are so easily influenced by hysteria and hyperbole and opposition in and of itself has little power. No, what influences voters decsions are results, and the Democrats need to wise up and stop pretending Obama and his agenda had nothing to do with their substantial losses over the last 6 years

I'm not sure how good or bad the law was, but I think chances are that your assessment is not a good gauge.

Are you saying that the Republicans did not gut it at all and that the affordability of it was not lost when stimulus and filibustered measures kept a flat recovery?

Nonsense, they opposed Obama because their racist genes held more power for them, crying liberal was just another excuse. They were weak and behaved as children, not poised for real leadership.

Well, if they've misbehaved like children then they will be treated like children (forgiven) and if there was any punishment, they got the lesser with Trump. That ought to learn them.
 
So this is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though, because Obamacare was based on the Heritage proposal from the 90's and Romneycare in MA in the 00's. I'm not sure insuring 28,000,000 people is a disaster while keeping premium increases -on average- below what they were prior to the ACA. The problem Conservatives have is how do you create a universal access system that is affordable for all patients. Apart from single payer, there is no way to do that. Conservatives are going to find out rather quickly that because of how Obamacare is structured, repealing it will create more problems than what currently exist. Fixing Obamacare's issues are really simple; expand Medicaid everywhere and introduce a Public Option. What Obamacare has done is show that the for-profit insurance industry is extraneous and a parasite on our health care system, nor can it be sustained as a business model that guarantees patient coverage and results in a profit. The two cannot exist in the same space in a for-profit market.




It's not that terrible a law. Your big hissyfit seems to be surrounding the requirement that everyone buys insurance. Well, if you don't want to buy insurance, then you should be arguing for Medicare-for-all. That way, all you have is a payroll tax and that's it. No more premiums, no more co-pays, no more deductibles, no more co-insurance, no more prescription drug costs. Employers don't have to cede a large chunk of their budgets for benefits (the average worker costs $17K to insure, with the employee paying about $5K and the employer paying about $12K).




It is delivering on its promises. 28 million people now have insurance. Medicare's solvency was extended thanks to switching to an outcome-based model. The uninsured rate is the lowest ever. Premiums, on average, have risen at rates below that of the 8 years prior to Obamacare. With subsidies, the average family is saving money. Like Julie Boonstra...you remember her, right? She was that GOP sow who cried fake tears about how she was a victim of Obamacare when the reality is that she benefited from the law and saved ~$2,500 a year thanks to the subsidies...the amount Obama said she would. Does the law still need work? Yes, it's far from perfect. But there is no doubt it is a marked improvement upon what was in place before.



Well, Hillary did win the popular vote by a significant margin. While Trump won the electoral college. Based on the aggregate vote totals, voters clearly preferred Democrats to Republicans. It's just a technicality that Trump won. Add to this that Russia was working with the Trump campaign, and you don't really get the picture you're describing. And substantial losses? What about 2012? Didn't Democrats pick up Senate and House seats? And they picked up Senate and House seats in 2016 too. So you are holding up two mid-term elections -that had the lowest voter turnout in years- as indicative of a larger public mood when we just finished an election where Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, Democrats picked up House and Senate seats, and a couple state legislatures. Modest gains, but gains nonetheless. Conservatives have really gerrymandered themselves into a corner. With an expected court ruling tossing out all those gerrymandered maps, 2018 will be an interesting year.

Romney was against Obamacare. He was all for letting the states do what they want but not forcing it on the rest of the country.
 
Romney was against Obamacare. He was all for letting the states do what they want but not forcing it on the rest of the country.

Yeah, that argument makes no sense. Health care needs don't change depending on where you live, mostly. People get a different prostate cancer in MA than TX? No. I never understood the "leave it to the states" argument because when it comes to health care, everyone has the same needs. "Leave it to the states" is just code for either "I'm too lazy to think of a national solution" or "I want my state to be able to discriminate".
 
Yeah, that argument makes no sense. Health care needs don't change depending on where you live, mostly. People get a different prostate cancer in MA than TX? No. I never understood the "leave it to the states" argument because when it comes to health care, everyone has the same needs. "Leave it to the states" is just code for either "I'm too lazy to think of a national solution" or "I want my state to be able to discriminate".

You could make that same argument on a bunch of things that the states now control. In fact, that is the liberal Utopia, get rid of the states and have the federal government run everything.
 
You could make that same argument on a bunch of things that the states now control. In fact, that is the liberal Utopia, get rid of the states and have the federal government run everything.

Well, I think the idea is to have a strong central government that runs things that are in the public interest. I actually believe in the left-leaning libertarian concept of public resources owned by the public; so think broadband, natural resources (oil, coal, basically anything extracted from the ground), and health insurance. I don't believe in government-run health care, as I think government-run health insurance would naturally lead to competition among providers, which improves outcomes and leads to innovation. So the providers of health care remain private and for-profit, but the mechanism by which those providers are reimbursed is run by the government.
 
Well, I think the idea is to have a strong central government that runs things that are in the public interest. I actually believe in the left-leaning libertarian concept of public resources owned by the public; so think broadband, natural resources (oil, coal, basically anything extracted from the ground), and health insurance. I don't believe in government-run health care, as I think government-run health insurance would naturally lead to competition among providers, which improves outcomes and leads to innovation. So the providers of health care remain private and for-profit, but the mechanism by which those providers are reimbursed is run by the government.

But everything is in the public interest. The founding fathers gave us individual states each with their own governments for a reason.
 
But everything is in the public interest. The founding fathers gave us individual states each with their own governments for a reason.

Certain uniform features such as that insurance companies can't just drop you or refuse you because of a pre-existing condition have to be provided by the Federal Government.

I don't see why you have to have thousands of pages.
 
Certain uniform features such as that insurance companies can't just drop you or refuse you because of a pre-existing condition have to be provided by the Federal Government.

I don't see why you have to have thousands of pages.

Just like car insurances, health insurance companies should be able to charge higher rates to those who cost them more and I say this as a person with pre-existing conditions. I do agree though with them being forced to cover those with pre-existing conditions. All of this could be accomplished with the states all having their own deals but companies being able to sell across state lines. That would nationalize health insurance to an extent.
 
But everything is in the public interest. The founding fathers gave us individual states each with their own governments for a reason.

Because it made sense in 1780. It doesn't make sense today because of technology.
 
Because it made sense in 1780. It doesn't make sense today because of technology.

So you are saying that we should disband all 50 states and just have one big country run by one central government.
 
So you are saying that we should disband all 50 states and just have one big country run by one central government.

No, I'm saying there are certain things that need to be centralized (health care).
 
No, I'm saying there are certain things that need to be centralized (health care).

The government screws up everything they touch. We don't have centralized auto insurance.
 
The government screws up everything they touch. We don't have centralized auto insurance.

So that's called "bias", and I'm not even sure of what it's informed. We have de facto centralized auto insurance because there are only a small handful of auto insurers in this country that control the market.
 
So that's called "bias", and I'm not even sure of what it's informed. We have de facto centralized auto insurance because there are only a small handful of auto insurers in this country that control the market.

What's wrong with de facto centralized health insurance?
 
What's wrong with de facto centralized health insurance?

Nothing, if it's single-payer. If it's for-profit, that's when you get into rescission and pre-existing conditions because the insurer's #1 goal isn't to provide you with access to health care, it's to make money. They make money when you don't get treatment. So they have no incentive to provide universal access because doing so means they would have to pay more claims, which means less money for them, which means higher premiums and deductibles for you.
 
Nothing, if it's single-payer. If it's for-profit, that's when you get into rescission and pre-existing conditions because the insurer's #1 goal isn't to provide you with access to health care, it's to make money. They make money when you don't get treatment. So they have no incentive to provide universal access because doing so means they would have to pay more claims, which means less money for them, which means higher premiums and deductibles for you.

So, you want to tell a huge industry (health insurers) with tens of thousands of employees that they are out of business and that their tens of thousands of employees will be out of a job. That sounds like the liberal thing to do.
 
So, you want to tell a huge industry (health insurers) with tens of thousands of employees that they are out of business and that their tens of thousands of employees will be out of a job. That sounds like the liberal thing to do.

Who says they'd be out of a job? And if we are keeping a flawed system in place for the sake of a few thousand jobs, then our priorities are backwards and it's not a system we should even have.
 
Who says they'd be out of a job? And if we are keeping a flawed system in place for the sake of a few thousand jobs, then our priorities are backwards and it's not a system we should even have.

We're talking tens of thousands of jobs, maybe even hundreds of thousands. Peanuts to you. Just give them all pink slips and tell several major corporations that they are no more but then you would attack them if they paid no federal income taxes for the next 20 years due to huge business losses. More evidence that you guys care more about liberal values than you do about jobs. And, you can't shake your liberal fantasy world. If you want to change healthcare you need to be realistic right out of the gate. Change can only happen when you deal with reality.
 
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