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Trumpo Top Bracket -33%- starts at $112,500

joG said:
Taxes on income should be eliminated and replaced by a value added tax. That increases savings and reduces consumption aggregates. Replace social spending with a minimum income for citizens and foreigners with work documents.
Click to expand...

A VAT is regressive hurting the poor and while saving might be good for a person it's bad for the economy. A pretty bad idea as a national tax policy.
 
mbig said:
Yes Billionaires, and those who can can barely afford an apartment in Manhattan, are proposed in the Same bracket, and with less deductions.
I don't think those making 112K should be taxed at the same rate as those making 250K, 500K, 1M, 10M, 100M.
Congress has similar but slightly different numbers Thresholds.
Billionaires and big donors, Of Course, ALL get a tax cut. It's a mixed bag for everyone else.
112.5ers need that money to live, especially in our Big Cities. Taking a Third of it hurts.


How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes
moneytips.com, KSDK - Feb 08, 2017
How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes | WFMYNEWS2.com
Click to expand...

It's not the tax rate or bracket that is important. Yes, the tax rate gets all the attention and raising the tax rate, say the top tax rate seems to give most people joy. But to billionaires, millionaires, these folks making all this money, the tax brackets or rates mean little. It is the effective tax rate they pay that does. These moneyed folks can afford all sorts of tax lawyers, CPO's, tax consultants and accountants. Once they finish, these tax experts bring the billion dollars they actually made with all the deductions, investments and write offs down to 100K or less in quite a lot of instances.

Most people thought raising the top bracket from 36% to 39% or whatever really socked it to these mega rich folks. But they would be wrong. A lot of these mega rich pay a lower rate that most of us in the middle class. But they can afford to hire all these tax folks who know the ropes and how to avoid paying a lot in taxes. We don't, we can't afford all that tax hired help.

A few years back, one of my co-workers won 50,000 dollars in the lottery. He spent the rest of the year going through trash cans and the like picking up all losing scratch offs and lottery slips for mega million, big game, fantasy five until he collected roughly a 100,000 dollars worth of losing tickets. He claimed those losing tickets as gambling losses against the money he won. He didn't have to pay a cent in taxes on that money he won in the lottery.

That's just an example, a real live one. You can imagine some of the things tax lawyers, accountants, CPO's and the like can come up with to have their mega rich clients pay very little in taxes. Tax rates mean nothing to them. But having a high top tax bracket makes us somehow feel good.
 
Perotista said:
It's not the tax rate or bracket that is important. Yes, the tax rate gets all the attention and raising the tax rate, say the top tax rate seems to give most people joy. But to billionaires, millionaires, these folks making all this money, the tax brackets or rates mean little. It is the effective tax rate they pay that does. These moneyed folks can afford all sorts of tax lawyers, CPO's, tax consultants and accountants. Once they finish, these tax experts bring the billion dollars they actually made with all the deductions, investments and write offs down to 100K or less in quite a lot of instances.

Most people thought raising the top bracket from 36% to 39% or whatever really socked it to these mega rich folks. But they would be wrong. A lot of these mega rich pay a lower rate that most of us in the middle class. But they can afford to hire all these tax folks who know the ropes and how to avoid paying a lot in taxes. We don't, we can't afford all that tax hired help.

A few years back, one of my co-workers won 50,000 dollars in the lottery. He spent the rest of the year going through trash cans and the like picking up all losing scratch offs and lottery slips for mega million, big game, fantasy five until he collected roughly a 100,000 dollars worth of losing tickets. He claimed those losing tickets as gambling losses against the money he won. He didn't have to pay a cent in taxes on that money he won in the lottery.

That's just an example, a real live one. You can imagine some of the things tax lawyers, accountants, CPO's and the like can come up with to have their mega rich clients pay very little in taxes. Tax rates mean nothing to them. But having a high top tax bracket makes us somehow feel good.
Click to expand...

The mega rich people pay less in taxes because they get most of thier income through capital gains the guy you knew with the lottery thing commited tax fraud that's illegal that is not what tax lawyers do.
 
Crovax said:
The mega rich people pay less in taxes because they get most of thier income through capital gains the guy you knew with the lottery thing commited tax fraud that's illegal that is not what tax lawyers do.
Click to expand...

Can we at least agree that we are missing out on major revenue by taxing capital gains, at a mere 15%?

“I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.” - Warren Buffett
 
Winston said:
Can we at least agree that we are missing out on major revenue by taxing capital gains, at a mere 15%?

“I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.” - Warren Buffett
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We wont be missing out on a lot of revenue. Warren is correct people won't stop investing but he is being disengenious as he knows they will certainly be more choosy about how they take returns from those investments which is the part where they are taxed at.
 
Perotista said:
It's not the tax rate or bracket that is important. Yes, the tax rate gets all the attention and raising the tax rate, say the top tax rate seems to give most people joy. But to billionaires, millionaires, these folks making all this money, the tax brackets or rates mean little. It is the effective tax rate they pay that does. These moneyed folks can afford all sorts of tax lawyers, CPO's, tax consultants and accountants. Once they finish, these tax experts bring the billion dollars they actually made with all the deductions, investments and write offs down to 100K or less in quite a lot of instances.

Most people thought raising the top bracket from 36% to 39% or whatever really socked it to these mega rich folks. But they would be wrong. A lot of these mega rich pay a lower rate that most of us in the middle class. But they can afford to hire all these tax folks who know the ropes and how to avoid paying a lot in taxes. We don't, we can't afford all that tax hired help.

A few years back, one of my co-workers won 50,000 dollars in the lottery. He spent the rest of the year going through trash cans and the like picking up all losing scratch offs and lottery slips for mega million, big game, fantasy five until he collected roughly a 100,000 dollars worth of losing tickets. He claimed those losing tickets as gambling losses against the money he won. He didn't have to pay a cent in taxes on that money he won in the lottery.

That's just an example, a real live one. You can imagine some of the things tax lawyers, accountants, CPO's and the like can come up with to have their mega rich clients pay very little in taxes. Tax rates mean nothing to them. But having a high top tax bracket makes us somehow feel good.
Click to expand...

Ha! That lottery ticket thing was clever. Wildly illegal, but clever.
 
Crovax said:
The mega rich people pay less in taxes because they get most of thier income through capital gains the guy you knew with the lottery thing commited tax fraud that's illegal that is not what tax lawyers do.
Click to expand...

Possible, the tickets weren't his. But they satisfied the IRS.
 
BrewerBob said:
Ha! That lottery ticket thing was clever. Wildly illegal, but clever.
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Like I just told another poster, it worked and satisfied the IRS. He had the tickets to prove it. That was several years ago and as far as I know, if it was illegal, it worked.
 
Lutherf said:
That's a lot of squawking over very little. Right now the 33% bracket kicks in at $190k for single taxpayers so Trump's change isn't much of a change ESPECIALLY since the 28% bracket disappears.
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Actually, 12% of taxpayers earn between 113K and 190K: the 19th-7th percentile (CNNMoney).
How close are you to the top 1%? - CNNMoney

But you missed my main point: that the 112K-ers are grouped in the bracket with the truly wealthy. 112K is Chopped meat, in with people earning Tens of Millions.
The real/ONLY point of GOP 'Tax Simplification' is always a Top-Down Big cut for the Rich. Period.

That is the #1 (pay-back) issue for Every GOP President, despite any gratuitous inclusion of lower earners.
And that Trickle Down has Failed every time... disparity keeps growing..... the economy and velocity (of money) comes to a crawl because it's in too few hands.
 
Perotista said:
It's not the tax rate or bracket that is important. Yes, the tax rate gets all the attention and raising the tax rate, say the top tax rate seems to give most people joy. But to billionaires, millionaires, these folks making all this money, the tax brackets or rates mean little. It is the effective tax rate they pay that does. These moneyed folks can afford all sorts of tax lawyers, CPO's, tax consultants and accountants. Once they finish, these tax experts bring the billion dollars they actually made with all the deductions, investments and write offs down to 100K or less in quite a lot of instances.
Most people thought raising the top bracket from 36% to 39% or whatever really socked it to these mega rich folks. But they would be wrong. A lot of these mega rich pay a lower rate that most of us in the middle class. But they can afford to hire all these tax folks who know the ropes and how to avoid paying a lot in taxes. We don't, we can't afford all that tax hired help.
A few years back, one of my co-workers won 50,000 dollars in the lottery. He spent the rest of the year going through trash cans and the like picking up all losing scratch offs and lottery slips for mega million, big game, fantasy five until he collected roughly a 100,000 dollars worth of losing tickets. He claimed those losing tickets as gambling losses against the money he won. He didn't have to pay a cent in taxes on that money he won in the lottery.
That's just an example, a real live one. You can imagine some of the things tax lawyers, accountants, CPO's and the like can come up with to have their mega rich clients pay very little in taxes. Tax rates mean nothing to them. But having a high top tax bracket makes us somehow feel good.
Click to expand...
I'm a Financial Adviser. Half my job is paying a Lower tax Rate.
When the head of Goldman Sachs makes $30 mil a year.. he Pays Payroll taxes.
As Did Rex Tillerson.
Your friend with 50K lottery may be a 'real world example.' but also worthless anecdote.. and still piker money.
We're talking about people who make 50k EVERY Month.. or Week... or DAY being grouped for tax purpose with a high Middle class 112K.
Trump also wants to get rid of the Estate Tax, another HUGE Rich Break, including his crooked self.

We can close the Loop Holes after the fact, but the Tax Rate DOES matter.
Disparity does matter.


plutocracy.jpg
 
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TurtleDude said:
everyone should pay the same rate-this prevents politicians from pandering to the many by promising tax hikes only on a few
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I agree with the theory, but not the fact.

I do not think people making under the poverty line should be paying any income tax. And certainly not the same as billionaires.

I could live with everyone above, say, $30,000 paying the same tax rate.


What about capital gains and corporate tax and deductions?

I am for ending all corporate tax, ALL deductions except capital losses (something you rightly corrected me on months ago) and charitable contributions should end AND capital gains should be taxed exactly the same as income tax.

Almost everyone could do their taxes in five minutes and few get favoritism.

PLUS - income tax rates mean nothing to billionaires as they make almost all their money from capital gains.
 
Based on the OP article, I much prefer the congress version over the Trump version...but I love neither.
 
DA60 said:
I agree with the theory, but not the fact.

I do not think people making under the poverty line should be paying any income tax. And certainly not the same as billionaires.

I could live with everyone above, say, $30,000 paying the same tax rate.


What about capital gains and corporate tax and deductions?

I am for ending all corporate tax, ALL deductions except capital losses (something you rightly corrected me on months ago) and charitable contributions should end AND capital gains should be taxed exactly the same as income tax.

Almost everyone could do their taxes in five minutes and few get favoritism.

PLUS - income tax rates mean nothing to billionaires as they make almost all their money from capital gains.
Click to expand...

if you got rid of charitable deductions, lots of good organizations would be crushed. btw you don't end up with more money if you give it to a bonafide charity. Some lefties make that claim that since you are paying Less taxes, you actually have more net income by giving. that is only true if your tax bracket is above 100%
 
TurtleDude said:
if you got rid of charitable deductions, lots of good organizations would be crushed. btw you don't end up with more money if you give it to a bonafide charity. Some lefties make that claim that since you are paying Less taxes, you actually have more net income by giving. that is only true if your tax bracket is above 100%
Click to expand...

Ummm...I was for NOT ending charitable contributions. I said the only deductions would be for charity and capital losses?

So what say you about corporate tax and capital gains?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Anyone who believes that Trump will cut their taxes probably is ready to believe he can cut taxes, increase spending on the military, build a wall, and still reduce the national debt.
Click to expand...

Snake oil is a cure all.
 
mbig said:
Yes Billionaires, and those who can can barely afford an apartment in Manhattan, are proposed in the Same bracket, and with less deductions.
I don't think those making 112K should be taxed at the same rate as those making 250K, 500K, 1M, 10M, 100M.
Congress has similar but slightly different numbers Thresholds.
Billionaires and big donors, Of Course, ALL get a tax cut. It's a mixed bag for everyone else.
112.5ers need that money to live, especially in our Big Cities. Taking a Third of it hurts.


How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes
moneytips.com, KSDK - Feb 08, 2017
How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes | WFMYNEWS2.com
Click to expand...




So if true..... you are against this? fair share and all that? :lol: Isn't this what you folks wanted? for the love of god......
 
11Bravo said:
rich ppl should continue to pay less tax so they can keep gettin rich. this is america they should be free to get rich
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That 's right and let their employees be damned. If they want raises they can start their own company. That's been the problem since Reagan. Now we complain about slow growth. No raises, no growth. Come on people, it doesn't take rocket science to get that. 75% of GDP is consumer spending. Tax all income over $500,000 at 50% and watch the middle class incomes and the GDP pop. No one likes giving money to the Govt. and employee salaries are tax deductible.
Trumps plan is like Bush's the only thing that will grow is hedge funds.
 
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iguanaman said:
That 's right and let their employees be damned. If they want raises they can start their own company. That's been the problem since Reagan. Now we complain about slow growth. No raises, no growth. Come on people, it doesn't take rocket science to get that. 75% of GDP is consumer spending. Tax all income over $500,000 at 50% and watch the middle class incomes and the GDP pop. No one likes giving money to the Govt. and employee salaries are tax deductible.
Trumps plan is like Bush's the only thing that will grow is hedge funds.
Click to expand...

And the deficit!
 
Crovax said:
A VAT is regressive hurting the poor and while saving might be good for a person it's bad for the economy. A pretty bad idea as a national tax policy.
Click to expand...

That is not, what theory says to my present knowledge. But I would be glad to read any studies you want me to look at.
 
joG said:
That is not, what theory says to my present knowledge. But I would be glad to read any studies you want me to look at.
Click to expand...

What theory have you been reading?

At the March meeting of the Fed’s Open Market Committee, officials expressed concern that consumers might boost their savings, thereby weakening or even aborting the economic expansion. Most economists concur with the view that what keeps the economy going is consumption expenditure.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...-spending/index.html?client=ms-android-att-us

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...o-the-economy-2016-2?client=ms-android-att-us

https://mises.org/library/saving-bad-economy

Rising savings rate could cause problem for economy - Feb. 12, 2009

https://research.stlouisfed.org/pub...-is-saving-good-or-bad-the-paradox-of-thrift/
 
mbig said:
Yes Billionaires, and those who can can barely afford an apartment in Manhattan, are proposed in the Same bracket, and with less deductions.
I don't think those making 112K should be taxed at the same rate as those making 250K, 500K, 1M, 10M, 100M.
Congress has similar but slightly different numbers Thresholds.
Billionaires and big donors, Of Course, ALL get a tax cut. It's a mixed bag for everyone else.
112.5ers need that money to live, especially in our Big Cities. Taking a Third of it hurts.


How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes
moneytips.com, KSDK - Feb 08, 2017
How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes | WFMYNEWS2.com
Click to expand...

Well, at least you've provided some indication of your annual income.

It is a fools errand to place the bulk of the revenue burden on one class of people. California has done this and the result is a fatal virus that is leading the State to financial ruin. Granted, it's easy to tap into envy and greed to get support for such a plan, but as the morons in Sacramento were warned, the rich don't stay rich every year.
 
mbig said:
Yes Billionaires, and those who can can barely afford an apartment in Manhattan, are proposed in the Same bracket, and with less deductions.
I don't think those making 112K should be taxed at the same rate as those making 250K, 500K, 1M, 10M, 100M.
Congress has similar but slightly different numbers Thresholds.
Billionaires and big donors, Of Course, ALL get a tax cut. It's a mixed bag for everyone else.
112.5ers need that money to live, especially in our Big Cities. Taking a Third of it hurts.


How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes
moneytips.com, KSDK - Feb 08, 2017
How President Trump's Plans Will Affect Individual Income Taxes | WFMYNEWS2.com
Click to expand...

As a upper middle income household with one working spouse and a stay at home mom, this tax plan is aces in my book. The 12% tax bracket for us would extend out to include $150,000 of our earned income. Our taxes on our first $150,000 in taxable income will drop from $28,000 to $18,000. That would be great.

Effectively, any married family earning less than $180,000 gross would be taxed at 12% for all taxable income (those making that $180,000 would pay an effective 10% tax rate), any married family making $30,000 or less would pay no federal taxes at all.

The itemized deduction cap would mean many high earners would be paying considerably more income taxes.

Edit: Also, I fail to see how "Single parents may struggle"... I keep running scenarios on Single parents and I am still getting a net decrease in tax burden well into six figure incomes.
 
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As an example, take a single parent (3 kids) making $56k

Current plan: Effective taxable income: $33.8k, Taxes: $4603

Trump Plan: Effective taxable income: $29.2k, Taxes: $3500

Taxes Reduced by 24%


Another example: Single parent (3 kids) making $30k

Current plan: Effective Taxable Income: $7.5k , Taxes: $750

Trump Plan: Effective Taxable Income: $2.9k, Taxes: $342

Taxes Reduced by 55%

Another Example: Single Parent (3 kids) making $200k

Current plan: Effective Taxable Income: $177.5, Taxes: $42.7k

Trump Plan: Effective Taxable Income: $172.9k, Taxes: $33.5k

Taxes reduced by 22%


I'm not seeing where single parents will be struggling under this plan.
 
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Another Example: Married couple (3 kids) making $56k:

Current Plan: Taxable income: $ 23.2k, Taxes: $2,547

Trump Plan: Taxable income: $9.8k, Taxes: $1,176

Taxes Reduced by 54%


And so on...
 
mbig said:
Actually, 12% of taxpayers earn between 113K and 190K: the 19th-7th percentile (CNNMoney).
How close are you to the top 1%? - CNNMoney

But you missed my main point: that the 112K-ers are grouped in the bracket with the truly wealthy. 112K is Chopped meat, in with people earning Tens of Millions.
The real/ONLY point of GOP 'Tax Simplification' is always a Top-Down Big cut for the Rich. Period.

That is the #1 (pay-back) issue for Every GOP President, despite any gratuitous inclusion of lower earners.
And that Trickle Down has Failed every time... disparity keeps growing..... the economy and velocity (of money) comes to a crawl because it's in too few hands.
Click to expand...

But only the amount OVER $112 is taxed at the rate shared with those earning tens of millions. So about 80% of singles would be in the 12% bracket (those making less than $75k).

I don't hate this idea, provided the revenue doesn't drop off, because lowering the fed tax rate to 12% on a significant portion of middle income earners is a good idea.
 
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