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Venezuela has the most Millionaires but they are broke

It seems pretty obvious that many of you are casually ignoring the context.

Venezuela is a country whose economy is 90% oil based. Guess what happens when the price of oil tanks?

ddce628e63048e4e9834faa843c718cb.png


Venezuela's major issues stem from being so susceptible to global pressure. International factors that influenced the price of oil crippled their economy. Their economic issues are not so heavily due to failed social policy, unlike the examples of, say, Greece, Portugal, Spain, and Ireland.
 
Visbek said:
MMT doesn't say "you can print indefinitely without causing hyperinflation."

MMT says "the government can't become insolvent, because it owns the printing press."

It's not clear if it's worse to default, or to print out of massive sovereign debt; that could depend greatly upon the circumstances. E.g. it might be better for the US to print up billions and pay off debtors than to default; it might be worse for Argentina to default than print.

I.e. your comments are not a valid, or remotely serious, criticism of MMT.



Uh... no.

It's an example of the government of Venezuela destroying its own nation. The mechanism by which it does so really has nothing to do with MMT, as the truth or falsity of the theory has nothing to do with the policies administered by failed states.
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And this is exactly why I hesitate to take the bait of these inane threads. The OP completely misses the point, but since it's still a popular explanation among the conservatives here on DP, it runs for a few pages with high-fives all around. Then, somebody else is expected to show up and fix the mess.

OP posters should do at least a bit of background research on the subject before slapping up this kind of nonsense.
 
Visbek said:
MMT doesn't say "you can print indefinitely without causing hyperinflation."

MMT says "the government can't become insolvent, because it owns the printing press."

It's not clear if it's worse to default, or to print out of massive sovereign debt; that could depend greatly upon the circumstances. E.g. it might be better for the US to print up billions and pay off debtors than to default; it might be worse for Argentina to default than print.

I.e. your comments are not a valid, or remotely serious, criticism of MMT.
Click to expand...

This is what happens when you only read what you want.

The key insight of MMT is that "monetarily sovereign government is the monopoly supplier of its currency and can issue currency of any denomination in physical or non-physical forms. As such the government has an unlimited capacity to pay for the things it wishes to purchase and to fulfill promised future payments, and has an unlimited ability to provide funds to the other sectors. Thus, insolvency and bankruptcy of this government is not possible. It can always pay.

What it doesn't state is that there is a down side or a consequence for just printing money in fact it is one of the key criticisms amongst economists.
this has already been established as pretty much fact. MMT ignores monetary risks of just printing money.


Uh... no.
It's an example of the government of Venezuela destroying its own nation. The mechanism by which it does so really has nothing to do with MMT, as the truth or falsity of the theory has nothing to do with the policies administered by failed states.
Click to expand...

Actually it does but you couldn't be honest about it if you wanted to.

The fact is that VZ is issuing currency at a record pace which MMT says it can do.
what is ignored is that fact that they are not under hyperinflation.

the consequence of printing a ton of money.
 
ludin said:
Hyperinflation renders Venezuela ....
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ludin said:
The fact is that VZ is issuing currency at a record pace which MMT says it can do.
what is ignored is that fact that they are not under hyperinflation.

the consequence of printing a ton of money.
Click to expand...
It get worse when the economically ignorant can't even proofread their own posts.
 
ludin said:
This is what happens when you only read what you want.

The key insight of MMT is that "monetarily sovereign government is the monopoly supplier of its currency and can issue currency of any denomination in physical or non-physical forms. As such the government has an unlimited capacity to pay for the things it wishes to purchase and to fulfill promised future payments, and has an unlimited ability to provide funds to the other sectors. Thus, insolvency and bankruptcy of this government is not possible. It can always pay.

What it doesn't state is that there is a down side or a consequence for just printing money in fact it is one of the key criticisms amongst economists.
this has already been established as pretty much fact. MMT ignores monetary risks of just printing money.




Actually it does but you couldn't be honest about it if you wanted to.

The fact is that VZ is issuing currency at a record pace which MMT says it can do.
what is ignored is that fact that they are not under hyperinflation.

the consequence of printing a ton of money.
Click to expand...

The bolded is just another example of your skin-deep understanding of what you write. If you had ever bothered to spend more than two minutes to read past the first paragraph of any explanation of MMT, you would know that this isn't true at all. It's not a "key criticism amongst (sic) economists," it's a criticism leveled by bloggers and other unqualified idiots.

Go back and do some homework before you bother posting another thread.
 
Mr Person said:
I don't think anyone....
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Harshaw said:
They don't dispute it after they inevitably fail. But before they do, socialist totalitarians tend to get a lot of applause.
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"anyone" becomes "they" which becomes "socialist totalitarians", ergo, anyone/everyone is a socialist totalitarian.

Just another day of semantic bs produced by our local "lawyer".
 
Gimmesometruth said:
"anyone" becomes "they" which becomes "socialist totalitarians", ergo, anyone/everyone is a socialist totalitarian.

Just another day of semantic bs produced by our local "lawyer".
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I'm not sure in which bizarro parallel dimension this makes a lick of sense.
 
Harshaw said:
I'm not sure in which bizarro parallel dimension this makes a lick of sense.
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I agree, often when one does a cursory analysis of your "points", "logic" and semantics....you end up with all sorts of incongruities.
 
Absentglare said:
It seems pretty obvious that many of you are casually ignoring the context.

Venezuela is a country whose economy is 90% oil based. Guess what happens when the price of oil tanks?

ddce628e63048e4e9834faa843c718cb.png


Venezuela's major issues stem from being so susceptible to global pressure. International factors that influenced the price of oil crippled their economy. Their economic issues are not so heavily due to failed social policy, unlike the examples of, say, Greece, Portugal, Spain, and Ireland.
Click to expand...

Lol ! Well ofcourse John would "like" that post.

What kind of govt builds its entire economy around a volatile commodity ?

Worse than that, Venezuella's central planners neglected other industries and their manufacturing to the point where they were entirely dependent on imprts for basic goods like toilet paper and food

One of the richest South American Countries was driven into ruin by idiot Socialist central planners who printed money so they could earn a profit
 
Fenton said:
Lol ! Well ofcourse John would "like" that post.
Click to expand...

Yeah, of course John liked that post - because he actually hit on the problem. And he did some research. And he posted some data.

Fenton said:
What kind of govt builds its entire economy around a volatile commodity ?
Click to expand...

Texas?

Fenton said:
Worse than that, Venezuella's central planners neglected other industries and their manufacturing to the point where they were entirely dependent on imprts for basic goods like toilet paper and food
Click to expand...

Finally, some actual thinking is going on here! Yes, Venezuela's economy was not diversified enough, and too dependent on oil. They carried debt in foreign currencies. The government mismanaged a lot of things.

Fenton said:
One of the richest South American Countries was driven into ruin by idiot Socialist central planners who printed money so they could earn a profit
Click to expand...

...and the thinking quickly comes to and end, replaced by blaming everything on greedy Socialists.

Try again on why Venezuela would print money.
 
ludin said:
This is what happens when you only read what you want.

The key insight of MMT is that "monetarily sovereign government is the monopoly supplier of its currency and can issue currency of any denomination in physical or non-physical forms. As such the government has an unlimited capacity to pay for the things it wishes to purchase and to fulfill promised future payments, and has an unlimited ability to provide funds to the other sectors. Thus, insolvency and bankruptcy of this government is not possible. It can always pay.
Click to expand...

Which is just a long-winded version of

Visbek said:
MMT doesn't say "you can print indefinitely without causing hyperinflation."

MMT says "the government can't become insolvent, because it owns the printing press."
Click to expand...



ludin said:
The fact is that VZ is issuing currency at a record pace which MMT says it can do.
what is ignored is that fact that they are not under hyperinflation.

the consequence of printing a ton of money.
Click to expand...

No.

Printing a ton of money is the consequence (not the cause) of an economy that fell on its face. In fact, we did it (to a lesser degree obviously) here in the US after the housing crash. The difference is that the US has other sectors of economic activity that were able to slowly drag us back to reasonable prosperity, whereas Venezuela still had only oil, and oil doesn't have the economic power to pull Venezuela out of its recession.

Additionally, the dollar is not tied to any other country's currency like the bolivar is.
 
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JohnfrmClevelan said:
Yeah, of course John liked that post - because he actually hit on the problem. And he did some research. And he posted some data.



Texas?



Finally, some actual thinking is going on here! Yes, Venezuela's economy was not diversified enough, and too dependent on oil. They carried debt in foreign currencies. The government mismanaged a lot of things.



...and the thinking quickly comes to and end, replaced by blaming everything on greedy Socialists.

Try again on why Venezuela would print money.
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Texas isn't a " Country " nor did Texas build its entire economy around a volatile commodity

Oil and Gas only represents about 10 percent of my States GDP so......try......again.

Texas's economy is very diverse and has grown substantially over the last 8 years. Toyota didn't relocate their headquarters from Torrance California to Nort Texas because of our oil and ga sector

And of-course Venezuella's economy isn't diverse. Its been run by a bunch of idiot socialist central planners.

Thats the point
 
Fenton said:
Texas isn't a " Country " nor did Texas build its entire economy around a volatile commodity

Oil and Gas only represents about 10 percent of my States GDP so......try......again.

Texas's economy is very diverse and has grown substantially over the last 8 years. Toyota didn't relocate their headquarters from Torrance California to Nort Texas because of our oil and ga sector
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Way to take a joke.

Fenton said:
And of-course Venezuella's economy isn't diverse. Its been run by a bunch of idiot socialist central planners.

Thats the point
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That doesn't explain the hyperinflation. That's my point.
 
Fenton said:
And yet you haven't even provided that, a " skin deep " explanation of why Venezuela is and has been experiencing hyperinlfation. So whats stopping you ?

Im sure their central planners knew exactly what they were doing right before they plunged their currency into ruin.
Just like all of the arm chair economist here who persist on pushing ridiculous MMT theory as if it was useful in any way.
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I thought all economists were armchair economists.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Way to take a joke.



That doesn't explain the hyperinflation. That's my point.
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Lol.....Suuure it was a " joke." Your'e not the first leftist to try and fail to draw some nonexistent parralel from Venezualla' s socialist meltdown to the Texas economy and you wont be the last

And " seigniorage " is why there's hyper inflation in Venezuella. A Govt run by Socialist thought that printing money to earn profit off of the face value of that currency was a great idea....until it wasn't.

Their idiot leftist ideologues, I guess its to be expected
 
Fenton said:
Lol.....Suuure it was a " joke." Your'e not the first leftist to try and fail to draw some nonexistent parralel from Venezualla' s socialist meltdown to the Texas economy and you wont be the last
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Whatever.

Fenton said:
And " seigniorage " is why there's hyper inflation in Venezuella. A Govt run by Socialist thought that printing money to earn profit off of the face value of that currency was a great idea....until it wasn't.
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OK, you think you learned a new vocabulary word... explain the exact mechanism by which "seigniorage" brought about hyperinflation, and how this was supposed to earn the government a handsome profit.
 
Fenton said:
One of the richest South American Countries was driven into ruin by idiot Socialist central planners who printed money so they could earn a profit
Click to expand...
Sure, after all, the actions by the Saudi's had nothing to do with Venezuela's exports! It was ALL about the printing press!
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Whatever.



OK, you think you learned a new vocabulary word... explain the exact mechanism by which "seigniorage" brought about hyperinflation, and how this was supposed to earn the government a handsome profit.
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New ? I've been educating people just like you on this issue for months now.

Its not my fault youv'e filled your brain with a bunch of MMT nonsense to the point where learning anything new is impossible.

Thats on you.

Its like packing your hard drive so full pf porn that the next time you try and download a documentary Windows crashes.

Thats you
 
Fenton said:
New ? I've been educating people just like you on this issue for months now.

Its not my fault youv'e filled your brain with a bunch of MMT nonsense to the point where learning anything new is impossible.

Thats on you.
Click to expand...

So you can't explain the mechanism behind Venezuela's hyperinflation. Got it.

Skin deep, as always.
 
Fenton said:
New ? I've been educating people just like you on this issue for months now.

Its not my fault youv'e filled your brain with a bunch of MMT nonsense to the point where learning anything new is impossible.

Thats on you.
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"I'm not gonna explain my "point", and that is on YOU!"

Well played, well played.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
So you can't explain the mechanism behind Venezuela's hyperinflation. Got it.

Skin deep, as always.
Click to expand...

This is your brain, this is MMT, this is your brain on MMT....

Any questions ??
 
Fenton said:
This is your brain, this is MMT, this is your brain on MMT....

Any questions ??
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have a question... what was the exact mechanism by which "seigniorage" brought about hyperinflation, and how was this supposed to earn the government a handsome profit?
 
Fenton said:
Ive explained it before, Ive even linked this article.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-08-28/printing-money-goes-haywire-in-venezuela

You and your ilk chose to ignore it, so why should I waste my time defining your new word ??
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Your source is a monetarist moron, a libertarian Ayn Rand fan who, guess what, doesn't have an econ degree. She doesn't understand what happened in Venezuela any better than you do.

You haven't explained how this led to hyperinflation. Your source didn't explain it, either, because she can't.
 
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