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Total taxation in the US is one of the lowest in the developed world

TurtleDude said:
that's just flat wrong. there are three or four hundred people who alone had several billion in combined income alone.
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Sorry yes it should be trillion, anywhere I posted billion in the above posts should be trillion instead
 
Brewdog said:
"The data are in current U.S. dollars not adjusted for inflation or deflation."
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Which is why I used 2015 as the basis of my calculation. If one is adjusted to 2016 figures it would only change the value by approx. 2 %
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Which is why I used 2015 as the basis of my calculation. If one is adjusted to 2016 figures it would only change the value by approx. 2 %
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The point is... If I made $50,000 in 1995 and $100,000 today, the tax burden is still the same because everything costs twice as much. You're implying that I should pay more in taxes than I did 20 years ago because now I earn more money when, adjusted for inflation, I don't.
 
Brewdog said:
The point is... If I made $50,000 in 1995 and $100,000 today, the tax burden is still the same because everything costs twice as much. You're implying that I should pay more in taxes than I did 20 years ago because now I earn more money when, adjusted for inflation, I don't.
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Just look at the government spending in 2015 and the personal income in 2015,
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Just look at the government spending in 2015 and the personal income in 2015,
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I did that using your figures for 2017. From what the government plans to spend this year, the tax burden on every citizen, including the ones that don't work, will be $22,000 each. The median salary in the US is $26,000. That's a pretty large chunk of spending per person.

And you want more from me? Why? You want more free stuff from the sweat off my back? Why do you think I owe you something? Are you unable to live your own life and support yourself without lobbying your government to use force to take from me and give it to you? Does this buy them your vote?

Are you so inept and feeble that you need me to pay for your life? Am I your mommy?
 
haymarket said:
I watched and I read and he confirmed he pays no taxes because of that write off.
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Was that question aimed at his business taxes, or his personal taxes?

That wasn't specified, but referred to the writeoff. I'll bet he paid personal income tax, and the writeoff was his business taxes.
 
upsideguy said:
Very weak indeed. In debate, you must answer my evidence with evidence or back down. You don't get away with that limp retort. Let me see your "cherry picked links"....

You asked what is wrong with income inequity, I told you, supported by over 10 articles (I could give you 10 fold more), that included Forbes, US News, the Economist....So, indulge me. You don't have to agree, but you do have to defend your position. Kindly produce 5 articles that refute my position from equivalent credible sources -- (maybe not, as you can't. Really, who is going to tell you that income or wealth inequality is a good thing? You know that is a ridiculous position to take.)

What I think is going on here is..... well, this visual came to mind.

View attachment 67211892

We appreciate the fact that you want to live in your own little world, with you own made-up facts. You are not going to read my links because you know the truth and the evidence is overwhelming against the little voices in your head that tell you otherwise...

The US has thrived for 200 years... but we are now 225+ years old. The income and wealth inequality is a more recent development in our economic life. As a matter of illustration, the Roman Empire did well for 500 years. Because we were strong in the past does not mean our future is bright. BTW, what makes the US economy "the best"? That seems a bit subjective.

"...Past performance is not always indicative of future results..."
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Do I really have to post links showing that we have the largest economy in the world? Do I really have to post links from all of the Obama lovers on this forum who say what a great job Obama has done on the economy? Do I really have to post links showing that we are pretty damn close to full employment? Do I really have to post links showing how stocks have done? It is you guys who say that the economy is so rosy and now that Trump is president all of a sudden it isn't and he hasn't even taken office yet. Of course you are going to cherry pick facts to prove that you are right. So what? People cherry pick facts out of the bible to show that homosexuality is wrong, abortion is wrong, and that white supremacy is OK. What does it really prove? All it really proves is that you know how to cherry pick facts, just as they do.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Your number is off

All levels of government spent 6.4 billion in the US in 2015. Personal income for 2015 was over 15 billion. Include business taxes and government debt and the amount paid would be closer to 35%
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Maybe be hangs with a higher income class of people than average.
 
Brewdog said:
I did that using your figures for 2017. From what the government plans to spend this year, the tax burden on every citizen, including the ones that don't work, will be $22,000 each. The median salary in the US is $26,000. That's a pretty large chunk of spending per person.

And you want more from me? Why? You want more free stuff from the sweat off my back? Why do you think I owe you something? Are you unable to live your own life and support yourself without lobbying your government to use force to take from me and give it to you? Does this buy them your vote?

Are you so inept and feeble that you need me to pay for your life? Am I your mommy?
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Personal income is different then median salary

As for me, I have a net worth of around half a million (net worth not just assets) and a household income for 2016 of $180 000 (boosted because of a severance packaged and the salary for the job I got right after leaving my old one.

I don't need anything from you unless it is a Corvette 2015 or newer or similar type of vehicle
 
Lord of Planar said:
Many of those costs are being counted two, maybe three times I bet.

Part of the federal spending is to states. Part of the state spending is to counties and cities.

The 50% could easily be correct.
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The government spending adjusts for intergovernment spending
 
haymarket said:
I watched and I read and he confirmed he pays no taxes because of that write off.

And it is a problem because paying taxes is an obligation of a citizen and for Trump or anyone else to game the system - a system the rich helped write and foster in the first place - is a slap in the face to every average American who does pay federal income taxes with a modest income.

And now Trump is in charge of the executive branch of the federal government which is in charge of collecting those taxes and penalizing people who fail to do so.

And that is why there is a problem.
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If paying taxes is the obligation of a citizen then why do 47% pay no federal income taxes?
 
joG said:
I was not talking about doing this the liberal way. I was thinking of changing the law. It would give the parents an incentive. I should have thought that obvious to anyone talking about changing laws. ;)

But as I said, it was only one of many possible set of rules that can be structured. If you don't like this one that's fine. But it would be cool to hear how you want to restructure 15 percent + of GDP, cut it by about half etc. without doing all sorts of heavy damage.
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You can't make one adult financially responsible for another adult unless they agree in writing to do so. You would not be just changing one law to change that, you would be changing damn near the entire legal code.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
They do pay other taxes as shown in a previous post I quoted
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often with money given to them by the government

what they pay to state government is not relevant to the federal environment. the concept of dual sovereigns is one that many don't understand.
 
Moderate Right said:
Trump pays other taxes too, and a lot more of them than the 47%.
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the main issue is-

does Trump directly use more government services as a private citizen than he paid in taxes to the various government entities
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
As for me, I have a net worth of around half a million (net worth not just assets) and a household income for 2016 of $180 000 (boosted because of a severance packaged and the salary for the job I got right after leaving my old one.
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Is something in the taxcode preventing you from sending that $500 grand to the IRS? If you think they need more money, then why not volunteer your own money in good faith?
 
TurtleDude said:
often with money given to them by the government

what they pay to state government is not relevant to the federal environment. the concept of dual sovereigns is one that many don't understand.
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The thread title says total taxation, not just federal government income taxes.

Are there Americans totally dependant on the government for all of their income, most definitely and many on a significant portion of it.

It can be cut, to which I would say look at Brazil as that would be the future with little to no government support. Other than the lack of winter, I don't think Brazil is a country to try to become more similar too
 
TurtleDude said:
I know that envy is often camouflaged by claims of the "greater good" and that "the ultra rich" are depicted as having three expensive sports cars" but in reality its usually anyone who is in the top 2-3%. and Most of us already pay high income taxes and the death tax (which was thought up before there was 40% income tax rates) is nothing more than a surcharge on the top tax payers.

Why should someone pay 10X for citizenship benefits that are no greater than what someone who pays almost no federal taxes gets?
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Because it's fairer. :mrgreen:
 
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