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MMT'rs Are Fighting A War Against Seniors

Moderate Right

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MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?
 
MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?

Meh, what one hand gives the other taketh away. If seniors are getting killed it's because they retired too early and/or didn't plan well enough for retirement.
 
MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?

This is kinda misdirected. Most Seniors came from a time when investing in CD and bonds were better than the stock market.
why? during the 70's and 80's you could get 10-15% return on your CD's or bonds.

most in fact were warned to stay away from the stock market that was for gamblers.
so that is what they did. after the 1980's the interest earned on CD's and bonds is down to nothing.

Historical CD Interest Rates 1984-2016 - Bankrate

you will never see interest rates this big again.
this has been a bigger hit on I would say middle and lower class people.

buying stocks is expensive and time consuming.

I manage my mutual funds, and I have thought about getting into some minor trading.
right now I think the best place for seniors to put there money is in mutual funds.

there are some decent mutual funds that have low or moderate risk and still give a good return vs bonds and CD's.
 
Meh, what one hand gives the other taketh away. If seniors are getting killed it's because they retired too early and/or didn't plan well enough for retirement.

not in all cases. market factors have an impact on their retirement funds.
 
MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?

Aren't interest rates tied to the amount of money available for investment?

When there is a limited supply interest rates are high to encourage savings (so banks can profit from loaning our money), stocks and bond purchases, and pension investments.

Modern Monetary Theory (fiat currency) allows government to flood the system with cash to remain solvent. However, this ability to issue fiat money creates high rates of inflation leading to a steady devaluation of said money if not spent quickly.

Meanwhile, banks and investment organizations are no longer dependent on citizen savings or investment, so there is no need to encourage it via high interest rates.

This has a direct effect on people of all ages, but most harshly on the poor with low incomes, and the elderly with fixed incomes.

So the question is, what to do about it aside from complaining?
 
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MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?

Actually, MMTers are fighting a war against stupidity and economic ignorance. Unfortunately, the war isn't going well, and ignorance is running rampant. Case in point: this thread.
 
Aren't interest rates tied to the amount of money available for investment?

When there is a limited supply interest rates are high to encourage savings (so banks can profit from loaning our money), stocks and bond purchases, and pension investments.

Modern Monetary Theory (fiat currency) allows government to flood the system with cash to remain solvent. However, this ability to issue fiat money creates high rates of inflation leading to a steady devaluation of said money if not spent quickly.

Meanwhile, banks and investment organizations are no longer dependent on citizen savings or investment, so there is no need to encourage it via high interest rates.

This has a direct effect on people of all ages, but most harshly on the poor with low incomes, and the elderly with fixed incomes.

So the question is, what to do about it aside from complaining?

Go back to a backed currency. Personally I think a currency should be backed by a basket of commodities such as energy, metals, land, food. The wider the better. I also think that currency policy should be such that the currency is stable. It doesn't grow in value it doesn't shrink in value. That way you encourage savings as what you save will be worth similar to then, and investment will be worthwhile even at lower growth rates. Fiat currency is a fraud, it is the intentional devaluation of money.
 
Actually, MMTers are fighting a war against stupidity and economic ignorance. Unfortunately, the war isn't going well, and ignorance is running rampant. Case in point: this thread.

Sounds to me like you are admitting that MMT economics is losing and has not only not left minority status but is losing ground and becoming even less of a minority than it was. For once I wholeheartedly agree with you. Time for you to understand which side is truly stupid and ignorant. MMT has fallen off a cliff and dropping like a rock under it's own falsehoods.
 
it isn't welfare when seniors want a free ride.
 
Sounds to me like you are admitting that MMT economics is losing and has not only not left minority status but is losing ground and becoming even less of a minority than it was. For once I wholeheartedly agree with you. Time for you to understand which side is truly stupid and ignorant. MMT has fallen off a cliff and dropping like a rock under it's own falsehoods.

Get a life.
 
If we got rid of liberal policies, most seniors wouldn't need a free ride.

that's right. most people can easily save up for 20-30 years worth of expenses. if it weren't for those meddling liberulls that is.
 
Go back to a backed currency. Personally I think a currency should be backed by a basket of commodities such as energy, metals, land, food. The wider the better. I also think that currency policy should be such that the currency is stable. It doesn't grow in value it doesn't shrink in value. That way you encourage savings as what you save will be worth similar to then, and investment will be worthwhile even at lower growth rates. Fiat currency is a fraud, it is the intentional devaluation of money.

MMT offers too many advantages to governments, banking, and investment organizations; but most especially to banking interests.

The government is not just printing money but actually borrowing it on a promise to repay. The surety is in the land and resources controlled by that government. But the more government borrows either from the sales of bonds to banks or (in the case of the U.S.A) direct loans from the Federal Reserve, the greater the debt burden accruing and the more that needs to be borrowed to cover debt and operating expenses.

This gives banking interests incredible power over those government's who owe these debts.

So how to combat this so that the common citizen doesn't suffer financially from inflation and devaluation of fixed income plans is my actual question; because short of a revolution I doubt government will ever return to the old methodology.
 
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MMT offers too many advantages to governments, banking, and investment organizations; but most especially to banking interests.

The government is not just printing money but actually borrowing it on a promise to repay. The surety is in the land and resources controlled by that government. But the more government borrows either from the sales of bonds to banks or (in the case of the U.S.A) direct loans from the Federal Reserve, the greater the debt burden accruing and the more that needs to be borrowed to cover debt and operating expenses.

This gives banking interests incredible power over those government's who owe these debts.

So how to combat this is my actual question, because short of a revolution I doubt government will ever return to the old methodology.


The only real way to combat it is to offer a better alternative. That's it. Unfortunately way to many people have no idea how our money works and why should be changed. Until that education is provided this situation will remain. Combating it is pointless unless you can change things.
 
Get a life.

There we go with the insults again. I guess that means that you know I am right. Must be the Michelle Obama syndrome that you have no hope anymore of furthering your liberal agenda. You're right.
 
that's right. most people can easily save up for 20-30 years worth of expenses. if it weren't for those meddling liberulls that is.

Just as your said in your other post, you want to blame Republicans for everything. Why is it that with 16 years out of 24 of the presidency for the Democrats, that seniors are in the mess they are in? Oh yeah, I forgot, it is all the Republican's fault.
 
Actually, MMTers are fighting a war against stupidity and economic ignorance. Unfortunately, the war isn't going well, and ignorance is running rampant. Case in point: this thread.

What is stupid about concerns for one's financial stability at retirement? You know, that point in life where you are considered too old to work or compete with the youngsters flooding the job market?

Prior to MMT, pension funds worked. The money could be invested at sufficiently high rates of interest to pay for the benefits promised. Meanwhile, savings accounts also allowed for both measurable increases in personal wealth pre-retirement, and supplemental income beyond pension plans after retirement. Interests rates on savings were as high as 7.5%, Certificates of Deposit up to 10%, and pension plans even higher.

After MMT? Savings accounts became worthless, the average interest rate is around 0.001% and CD's (if they still exist) not much better than that.

As for pension plans? They are failing left and right with both business and government struggling to meet existing pension obligations while cutting them drastically for new employees.

Meanwhile, why is it stupid for common citizens to be concerned when they see their living costs rising while their wages are stagnating? Who need to spend and borrow before their money devalues?

Who see jobs being outsourced to cheaper labor markets so that those of us who still have jobs can stretch our devalued dollars by buying cheaper imported goods?

I don't think it is "ignorance," since people are pretty clear about how MMT works and to whose advantage. More like a rational concern from the peons who don't see it working for them. :coffeepap:
 
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I would benefit greatly, greatly, from the Fed raising interest rates. But with so many publicly traded companies driving the economy, they need to keep faith in the markets up. Otherwise, things like mutual funds will take a dip. In 2008 most people who lost, lost on mutual funds. I think around 20% just disappeared across the board. The Fed keeping the caps low, is what is driving this economic recovery. They can lift the caps, whenever they want, it's just a tool they have to control the speed of the economy. This sucks, I know, but it's a necessary pain to repair the damage done by Reaganomics. You gotta slow down, to move forward. Going back to reckless speeds, would only benefit the people who won't live long enough to watch everyone else suffer.

If we want to see higher interest rates, we need to discourage job creators from going public and tying their fates to chance and whim. It's ridiculous to think that a profitable company can lose 10 percent of it's value, because Donald Trump tweets he wants to cancel a plane order. That's jobs lost. Revenue lost. Over 140 characters, and panicked investors. Mutual Funds dipping. We gotta untie main street and wall street. I don't see that happening, and until it does, increasing interest rates will give investors an alternative for their money that locks it down for 5-10 years. Which means job creators tied to the market will suffer, and the economy will tank. That will really happen. So argue the theories all you want, argue til you come up with a solid plan to untie Main and Wall street that doesn't screw millennials more than we already are in the job market.
 
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What is stupid about concerns for one's financial stability at retirement? You know, that point in life where you are considered too old to work or compete with the youngsters flooding the job market?

Prior to MMT, pension funds worked. The money could be invested at sufficiently high rates of interest to pay for the benefits promised. Meanwhile, savings accounts also allowed for both measurable increases in personal wealth pre-retirement, and supplemental income beyond pension plans after retirement. Interests rates on savings were as high as 7.5%, Certificates of Deposit up to 10%, and pension plans even higher.

After MMT? Savings accounts became worthless, the average interest rate is around 0.001% and CD's (if they still exist) not much better than that.

As for pension plans? They are failing left and right with both business and government struggling to meet existing pension obligations while cutting them drastically for new employees.

Meanwhile, why is it stupid for common citizens to be concerned when they see their living costs rising while their wages are stagnating? Who need to spend and borrow before their money devalues?

Who see jobs being outsourced to cheaper labor markets so that those of us who still have jobs can stretch our devalued dollars by buying cheaper imported goods?

I don't think it is "ignorance," since people are pretty clear about how MMT works and to whose advantage. More like a rational concern from the peons who don't see it working for them. :coffeepap:

MMTers want stability, so that's a red herring.

They stopped offering pensions because businesses are greedy and 401ks/IRAs are cheaper.

MMT didn't erode savings account interest. The reason interest rates are so low is because our economy is struggling. Our economy is struggling because we aren't deploying our resources effectively. We aren't deploying our resources effectively because we either aren't deficit spending enough or because what we do push deficits for (like tax cuts on the rich) isn't actually helpful to the economy.

Of course we should be concerned about rising cost of living and/or stagnant wages. Why is that MMTs fault? Answer: it's not. The money is drying up for most of us because it is becoming increasingly consolidated at the top. It's going somewhere, just not where we need it. You can thank our politicians and wealthy elite for that, not MMTers.

Cheaper goods is worth losing low-paying jobs. That's more globalization than MMT-specific.

At this point, i have to ask, what do you think MMT is?
 
There we go with the insults again. I guess that means that you know I am right. Must be the Michelle Obama syndrome that you have no hope anymore of furthering your liberal agenda. You're right.

No, it just means that you need to get a life. Do something with your free time besides displaying your incredible ignorance on DP.
 
MMTers want stability, so that's a red herring.

Stability? Yes, of course but for who? Government of course, the rich certainly, and banks absolutely.

But as for the rest of us? If by stability you mean acceptance of one's every devolving crap-devouring consumerist society? Then yes that type of stability too.

Now ask the bulk of retirees on fixed incomes how stable they feel. Ask people who have lost their jobs due to outsourcing how stable they feel. Ask people who depend on food stamps and fast (read "crap") food to feed their families how they feel.

They stopped offering pensions because businesses are greedy and 401ks/IRAs are cheaper.

Of course businesses are often greedy, typically those run as corporations who have to keep their stockholders happy with high dividends and stock resale values.

But pensions were of little concern during the era before MMT because they DID pay for themselves based on the high interests rates garnered from investing the funds. They became overly expensive when the burden of paying the benefits switched from the pension profits back to the businesses who had to honor the promised benefits.

MMT didn't erode savings account interest. The reason interest rates are so low is because our economy is struggling. Our economy is struggling because we aren't deploying our resources effectively. We aren't deploying our resources effectively because we either aren't deficit spending enough or because what we do push deficits for (like tax cuts on the rich) isn't actually helpful to the economy.

B.S.!

Interests rates are tied to the amount of money available to lend. Not much hard cash? Interest rates paid to depositors are high, and so are loan interest rates to cover both profits and interest payments to depositors. An abundance of hard cash? Then interest paid to depositor's is low because there is no need for banks to try to encourage them to keep their money in the bank.

Of course we should be concerned about rising cost of living and/or stagnant wages. Why is that MMTs fault? Answer: it's not. The money is drying up for most of us because it is becoming increasingly consolidated at the top. It's going somewhere, just not where we need it. You can thank our politicians and wealthy elite for that, not MMTers.

Why is it becoming increasingly consolidated at the top, even with the government's ability to literally print as much as they want?

Of course we can thank our politicians for that, because as I stated before the power to lend fiat money gives the Federal Reserve and the banking interests that control it tremendous power over our government that borrows it.

That is the real reason for all those bailouts we saw not too long past. That is why all our Presidents appoint those bank and investment insiders to Treasury and other government positions. :roll:

Cheaper goods is worth losing low-paying jobs. That's more globalization than MMT-specific.

What country are you from? The jobs lost were not all "low-paying." Many are and were the medium to high-paying production and manufacturing jobs, typically unionized like Steel production. The ones that used to be the heart of the Middle Class.

But even those low-paying" ones that have been outsourced to places like Bangladesh where the workers get paid $0.24 p/hr were done by U.S. garment workers paid at least Federal Minimum wage of $7.25 p/hr.

Average hourly wage for garment workers: Bangladesh $0.24, Cambodia $0.45, Pakistan $0.52, Vietnam $0.53, China $1.26, tweets EurasiaGroup President Ian Bremmer.
Average hourly wage for garment workers: - Business Insider

At this point, i have to ask, what do you think MMT is?

Didn't I provide the wiki quote in my post? I guess not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

Meanwhile, I was asking our "economic brain trust" to provide the answer to that question. People recognize that the system sucks, but layman that I am I would like to know the answers too. :shrug:
 
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No, it just means that you need to get a life. Do something with your free time besides displaying your incredible ignorance on DP.

Your insults are music to my ears but I do realize that this election has given you no hope for the future so I feel sorry for you and your MMT's war on seniors being a complete failure. Even if the Republicans wind up being a one term presidential party, the Supreme Court will remain conservative for a very long time, decades to come, and MMT is sounding it's death nells. May it rest in peace.
 
Actually, MMTers are fighting a war against stupidity and economic ignorance. Unfortunately, the war isn't going well, and ignorance is running rampant. Case in point: this thread.

Would you say MMTers are proponents of defined benefit pensions, and our current methodology of imposing unfunded pension liabilities onto non-pensioners, including at state and local government levels?

Because I for one think that anyone who jumps to the defense of paying for current year public services by flinging forward into the future immense defined benefit liabilities has one's head up one's ass.
 
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Would you say MMTers are proponents of defined benefit pensions, and our current methodology of imposing unfunded pension liabilities onto non-pensioners, including at state and local government levels?

Because I for one think that anyone who jumps to the defense of paying for current year public services by flinging forward into the future immense defined benefit liabilities has one's head up one's ass.

Good luck getting an MMT proponent to break the circular reasoning cycle and admit they are unfunded liabilities.

"But revenues cover it so it's not unfunded."

"Surpluses now are loaned to the general account for redemption later, which constitutes a future deficit, which will be financed by debt".

"But it's not debt, dummy, it's a surplus!"

"The Treasury counts intragovernmental holdings as part of the total debt."

"But only public debt counts!"

"It's borrowed, so it's a debt."

"But we owe it to ourselves so it doesn't really count!"

And so on.
 
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