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MMT'rs Are Fighting A War Against Seniors

Gonzo Rodeo said:
Good luck getting an MMT proponent to break the circular reasoning cycle and admit they are unfunded liabilities.

"But revenues cover it so it's not unfunded."

"Surpluses now are loaned to the general account for redemption later, which constitutes a future deficit, which will be financed by debt".

"But it's not debt, dummy, it's a surplus!"

"The Treasury counts intragovernmental holdings as part of the total debt."

"But only public debt counts!"

"It's borrowed, so it's a debt."

"But we owe it to ourselves so it doesn't really count!"

And so on.
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Whatever they say, unfunded pension liabilities are ​quite literally on the books, i.e. actual audited financial statements, of states and municipalities (who aren't monetarily sovereign, obviously, thereby rendering most MMT philosophical ruminations pointless in this context), and this is pursuant to GASB 68 (accounting regulations). These state and local governments have these liabilities and must by law fling them upon young, future generations (of mostly non-pensioners).

It shouldn't be legal to "pay for" services we want today by issuing a sacrosanct promise that will come due 40 years from now and thereby be imposed on someone else who never agreed to that arrangement. But that is inherently what defined benefit pension style programs do. Pension benefits should be cut to the extent that they're unfunded. Whatever crying and pissing and moaning occurs as a result can and should be explained as "sorry, defined benefits were an idiotic idea, you were duped, these things are criminal, you lose."
 
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Moderate Right said:
MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?
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Wait, wut??

"Seniors need higher interest rates so they can get higher COLAs"? COLAs are based on the CPI, not interest rates. So, if there's low inflation (which keeps interest rates low), then seniors don't need much of a COLA to keep up with inflation. So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year, but with such low inflation over the past several years, they don't need much of an increase to keep up with such low inflation.
 
Critter7r said:
Wait, wut??

"Seniors need higher interest rates so they can get higher COLAs"? COLAs are based on the CPI, not interest rates. So, if there's low inflation (which keeps interest rates low), then seniors don't need much of a COLA to keep up with inflation. So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year, but with such low inflation over the past several years, they don't need much of an increase to keep up with such low inflation.
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Exactly what I said. Liberal MMT'rs are fighting a war on seniors. They want to give raises to the working poor even when inflation is low and yet they want to stiff poorer retired seniors by purposely keeping interest rates low to further their own agenda at the expense of seniors. MMT is designed to screw retired seniors just as you so coldly stated, "So what if they feel bad because they're not getting more money".
 
Moderate Right said:
Exactly what I said. Liberal MMT'rs are fighting a war on seniors. They want to give raises to the working poor even when inflation is low ...
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Because they haven't had ANY wage increases. They haven't even gotten adjustments for inflation over the past decade, retirees HAVE.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colaseries.html


... and yet they want to stiff poorer retired seniors by purposely keeping interest rates low to further their own agenda at the expense of seniors. MMT is designed to screw retired seniors just as you so coldly stated, "So what if they feel bad because they're not getting more money".
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And the rest of this is just you trying to make an emotional plea so people with rally behind you holding your torch and pitchfork.
 
Moderate Right said:
Exactly what I said. Liberal MMT'rs are fighting a war on seniors. They want to give raises to the working poor even when inflation is low and yet they want to stiff poorer retired seniors by purposely keeping interest rates low to further their own agenda at the expense of seniors. MMT is designed to screw retired seniors just as you so coldly stated, "So what if they feel bad because they're not getting more money".
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It's also funny, an worth noting, that you will describe policies from the left as "feel good" policies, but then hammer on me for being "cold" when I point out that you're advocating for just such a "feel good" policy.

Those receiving SS get COLA increases when they're warranted. If they don't need one to compensate for inflation, they don't get one. It doesn't make them any worse off, it simply doesn't give them an increase.
 
Critter7r said:
It's also funny, an worth noting, that you will describe policies from the left as "feel good" policies, but then hammer on me for being "cold" when I point out that you're advocating for just such a "feel good" policy.

Those receiving SS get COLA increases when they're warranted. If they don't need one to compensate for inflation, they don't get one. It doesn't make them any worse off, it simply doesn't give them an increase.
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I don't understand how you can be so cold hearted against seniors. This is exactly why Hillary lost. She told the jobless and underemployed in her very own blue states that they should be happy with the way things are and here you are doing the very same thing, telling retired seniors that they should be happy with low inerest rates until they die so that it can further the liberal agenda.
 
Moderate Right said:
I don't understand how you can be so cold hearted against seniors. This is exactly why Hillary lost. She told the jobless and underemployed in her very own blue states that they should be happy with the way things are and here you are doing the very same thing, telling retired seniors that they should be happy with low inerest rates until they die so that it can further the liberal agenda.
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Now you're just trolling.
 
Critter7r said:
Now you're just trolling.
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For mentioning that liberal economic policies are a war against seniors and you back that up by saying, "So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year"?
 
Moderate Right said:
For mentioning that liberal economic policies are a war against seniors and you back that up by saying, "So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year"?
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And you're not even doing a very good job of trolling.
 
Critter7r said:
And you're not even doing a very good job of trolling.
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Ha. Ha. You guys find more and more ways of deflecting instead of answering, just as liberals are finding more and more ways of saying that Hillary's loss wasn't her fault or the fault of liberal policies. You've already admitted that MMT'rs are fighting a war against seniors with your previous answers and then you turn around and call it trolling even when you have admitted that you don't care about seniors and say that they should be happy with the lives they have. Liberals also have a war against those working in manufacturing jobs by implementing policies to eliminate their $24 per hour jobs and promising them that you are going to work hard at making Walmart pay them $15 per hour, but that's for another thread.
 
Moderate Right said:
... You've already admitted that MMT'rs are fighting a war against seniors ....
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I DID? I don't remember saying any such thing. Perhaps you could find a full-context quote to show that I admitted that?
 
Critter7r said:
I DID? I don't remember saying any such thing. Perhaps you could find a full-context quote to show that I admitted that?
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When I start a thread saying that MMT'rs are fighting a war against seniors and you state that, "So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year". I hardly call that a denial.
 
Moderate Right said:
When I start a thread saying that MMT'rs are fighting a war against seniors and you state that, "So they feel bad because they're not getting more money each year". I hardly call that a denial.
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The fact that senior "feel bad" because they're not getting an increase in their payments says nothing about the fact that the slow state of growth in the economy makes it so that one isn't necessary. It's just how they feel, but it has no basis in reality because inflation has never been so low in the recent past as it has been of late. Their dollars go just as far this year as they did last year. They are incurring no hardship, no loss of financial strength by not getting a COLA. Nor does it address your lie of my supposed admission that liberals are waging such a "war".
 
Moderate Right said:
MMT partly revolves around expecting and doing whatever they can to have low inflation and low interest rates forever. Seniors are getting killed with low interest rates and many need help from government programs in order to survive. They need the higher interest rates as income since it is too late for them to gamble in the stock market. They also need higher inflation to get COLA adjustments on their Social Security. Why do MMT'rs hate seniors so much? Why do they continue their war on seniors and why do they wish to do this forever, right at the time baby boomers are retiring?
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I will just address the inflation part, inflation does not help seniors, it hurts them horribly!! You are arguing things need to get more expensive so seniors can get a cola increase to equal where they were before the inflation.

Inflation always hurts fixed incomes more than anyone else,prices go up but cola increases are always way behind.
 
Critter7r said:
The fact that senior "feel bad" because they're not getting an increase in their payments says nothing about the fact that the slow state of growth in the economy makes it so that one isn't necessary. It's just how they feel, but it has no basis in reality because inflation has never been so low in the recent past as it has been of late. Their dollars go just as far this year as they did last year. They are incurring no hardship, no loss of financial strength by not getting a COLA. Nor does it address your lie of my supposed admission that liberals are waging such a "war".
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So you liberals rail because many seniors need public assistance to make ends meet and then you say tough ****, you don't deserve any more because we have our liberal priorities and you ain't it, to hell with you. Like I said, liberals are fighting a war on seniors and you prove my point more and more with every post. Thanks for making it easy on me.
 
beerftw said:
I will just address the inflation part, inflation does not help seniors, it hurts them horribly!! You are arguing things need to get more expensive so seniors can get a cola increase to equal where they were before the inflation.

Inflation always hurts fixed incomes more than anyone else,prices go up but cola increases are always way behind.
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Is there a reason why you avoided addressing interest rates?
 
Moderate Right said:
Isn't the degree of inflation the same?
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Not exactly, most seem to agree neutral inflation to very slight inflation tends to be the best for stability, While interest rates are a means to control many things, such as inflation, borrowing rates , debt ratios etc.
 
Moderate Right said:
So you liberals rail because many seniors need public assistance to make ends meet and then you say tough ****, you don't deserve any more because we have our liberal priorities and you ain't it, to hell with you. Like I said, liberals are fighting a war on seniors and you prove my point more and more with every post. Thanks for making it easy on me.
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Look, SS benefits are set at X dollars, when inflation causes X to be worth Y% less this year than last, a COLA is made. When inflation is at or near zero (i.e. there isn't any significant loss of purchasing power), no COLA is made. How badly do you want to be a partisan hack to need to make this about some imaginary liberal war on seniors?
 
Critter7r said:
Look, SS benefits are set at X dollars, when inflation causes X to be worth Y% less this year than last, a COLA is made. When inflation is at or near zero (i.e. there isn't any significant loss of purchasing power), no COLA is made. How badly do you want to be a partisan hack to need to make this about some imaginary liberal war on seniors?
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In other words, you are denying that many seniors need government assistance in order to survive. It's OK for you to fight for the younger to receive more public assistance but to hell with seniors, they should be happy with what they have. Let the war on seniors continue.
 
Critter7r said:
Inflation occurs because of economic conditions. Interest rates are not the cause of those conditions, they are adjusted because of those conditions.
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That's some fancy footwork for saying nothing. Both inflation and interest rates are due to economic conditions. MMT policy is to hold both in check, screwing seniors forever. The seniors have simply got in the way of your objectives and they are expendable. The end justifies the means.
 
Moderate Right said:
In other words, you are denying that many seniors need government assistance in order to survive.
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No. I'm arguing that they don't need increased assistance in the face of low/no inflation. And then when inflation makes a comeback, a COLA is in order. Do you even know what a COLA is? (Hint: It ain't a Pepsi)

It's OK for you to fight for the younger to receive more public assistance but to hell with seniors, they should be happy with what they have. Let the war on seniors continue.
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blah blah blah partisan hackery blah blah blah.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's some fancy footwork for saying nothing. Both inflation and interest rates are due to economic conditions.
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No, they're not.

Inflation occurs because of economic conditions that are not directly controlled by any one entity. Interest rates are directly controlled only by the Fed. The Fed changes interest rates IN RESPONSE to those economic conditions, in an effort to push the economy in a favorable direction.

MMT policy is to hold both in check, screwing seniors forever. The seniors have simply got in the way of your objectives and they are expendable. The end justifies the means.
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I don't even know what you're getting at here. MMT has nothing to do with Social Security. You've strayed really far from the reservation with this line of argument.
 
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