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It looks like Trump want to explode the deficit

Actually, I am not. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 changed how non-profit insurance and hospitals were taxed. Here is a Case Western study on it.

I don't think you'll be able to rewind time here. This industry has been carving itself a bigger piece of the economic pie for decades. The hippocratic oath is already in place, and we already have proof that areas with the highest cost of care are often providing less effective care.

Your wish that we could blindly rely on doctors to do the right thing is ridiculous. That was all before the admins were making $6,000,000+/year. Those people won't take a paycut lightly.

Single payer doesn't fix anything. Ask Canada or UK. They RATION healthcare. No other country in the G-7 has single payer. Not Germany, Not France, Not Italy, not even Japan.

We RATION healthcare also. And the way we RATION healthcare is that we provide less healthcare and worse healthcare than other developed nations at even greater cost.

And yes, no country has ever bene a pure democracy, no country has ever been purely capitalist. What's the point of that meaningless distiction here? Are you incapable of appreciating the difference between when a government provides basic access to healthcare and when they let the wealthy **** their poor with healthcare?

Didn't say it was an absolute fix. But even if you want Single Payer, you have to go to non-profit hospitals as well. So Can't do what you want until you address the for-profit hospital systems.

The 60% of "non-profit" hospitals are a big part of the problem. They just keep reinvesting additional revenue into administrator salaries until the "profit" is zero.

Administrator salaries are rising to keep up with competition from the for-profit hospitals. For example.. OSU Health System which is a Government Hospital pays it's CEO, $975,000. He oversees a $2b operation. Is that excessive? Of course not, that's not even drop in the bucket especially for someone that oversees a teaching hospitals which has two major locations and two dozen off campus locations.

Most non-profits reinvest for expansion or hiring top end doctors. Nationwide Children's Hospital is pouring close to $730m into expanding and increasing outpatient care because of their "profit". That's just 4 years after their last $700m expansion plan ended.

Um, no, it's not about competition, that would require that those higher salaries are associated with better outcomes, which they are not.

You keep assuming that spending more money means a better product. In healthcare, in this country, that relationship is inverted.

Far more? Dutch have 20% overhead costs.

Exactly, the next highest is significantly lower.
 
What did Barney Frank have to do with it?

Everything
Before Frank and Dodd were able to pass legislation weakening Fannie and Freddie's buying standards, all mortgages purchased off the primary market by these two Government Sponsored Enterprises adhered to Federal Housing Administration standards, i.e. they were "prime" loans. But Frank, Dodd, and their cohorts "rolled the dice" in regards to subprime lending, and, in effect, drowned Fannie and Freddie with junk mortgage paper. In turn, Fannie and Freddie sold the junk loans to institutional investors, who happily bought them with cheap capital provided by the Fed. Attaching trillions of dollars of derivatives to the junk they bought, these investors (particularly the Big Banks) created a bona fide financial crisis.


ECOMINOES: Frank And Dodd Started The Mortgage Crisis, But Not For The Reason You Think
 
Everything
Before Frank and Dodd were able to pass legislation weakening Fannie and Freddie's buying standards, all mortgages purchased off the primary market by these two Government Sponsored Enterprises adhered to Federal Housing Administration standards, i.e. they were "prime" loans. But Frank, Dodd, and their cohorts "rolled the dice" in regards to subprime lending, and, in effect, drowned Fannie and Freddie with junk mortgage paper. In turn, Fannie and Freddie sold the junk loans to institutional investors, who happily bought them with cheap capital provided by the Fed. Attaching trillions of dollars of derivatives to the junk they bought, these investors (particularly the Big Banks) created a bona fide financial crisis.


Amazing that Frank had the power to do this as a member of the minority party. What legislation was passed that weakened the GSE's "buying standards"? There was a HUD rule in place in 2000 that prevented GSE's from purchasing risky subprimes. Bush and the Conservatives reversed that rule in 2004 because they needed a housing bubble to make the economy look like it was growing as a result of the tax cuts when it really wasn't. Bush and the Conservatives lost over 811,000 jobs in his first four years.

Furthermore, not sure why Conservatives are so desperate to avoid responsibility. Take a look at this chart, and tell me when you see a bubble...now cross-reference those years with the years Conservatives controlled Congress and you get an idea of who is responsible for what:

download (1).jpg

Now how, in 2004, could Barney Frank have been responsible for the mortgage bubble when Conservatives were the ones who had control of the House and Senate??? The answer, of course, is that Frank is just a scapegoat for Conservatives who are unwilling to admit their economic ideology is deeply and irrevocably flawed.
 
LOL- they were never kept out of the deficit equations. Stop reading the Huffington post in 2017. Rots the brain.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Table 1.1. -it's all there.
Much of the costs of the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war until FY2008 have been funded through supplemental appropriations or emergency supplemental appropriations, which are treated differently from regular appropriations bills. Senior congressional leaders have contended that those war costs, as much as possible, should go through the regular budget process, which provides for greater transparency. Determining the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is complex. CBO has estimated that "war-related defense activities" in 2007 were "roughly $115 billion."
 
Much of the costs of the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war until FY2008 have been funded through supplemental appropriations ."

........Blah blah blah..air air air nothing moronic lw spin blah blah ......

The costs were included in the deficit number. PERIOD. Why is simple math so hard to understand for liberals?

admit it- you thought that 180 billion deficit number DIDN't factor in the Iraq war. ( Snicker GIGGLE chortle) . Ya got played like a chump by the LW media. ( GUFFAWW)
 
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What did Barney Frank have to do with it?

Is this the first time you debated the issue?

Barney Frank-N-Furter was instrumental in keeping reforms in the regulations from happening, that could have stopped the housing crisis.
 
Amazing that Frank had the power to do this as a member of the minority party. What legislation was passed that weakened the GSE's "buying standards"? There was a HUD rule in place in 2000 that prevented GSE's from purchasing risky subprimes. Bush and the Conservatives reversed that rule in 2004 because they needed a housing bubble to make the economy look like it was growing as a result of the tax cuts when it really wasn't. Bush and the Conservatives lost over 811,000 jobs in his first four years.

Furthermore, not sure why Conservatives are so desperate to avoid responsibility. Take a look at this chart, and tell me when you see a bubble...now cross-reference those years with the years Conservatives controlled Congress and you get an idea of who is responsible for what:

View attachment 67212060

Now how, in 2004, could Barney Frank have been responsible for the mortgage bubble when Conservatives were the ones who had control of the House and Senate??? The answer, of course, is that Frank is just a scapegoat for Conservatives who are unwilling to admit their economic ideology is deeply and irrevocably flawed.
I see you are clueless of how they make legislation.

Just because a party has a majority, doesn't mean they can pass anything they want.
 
I don't think you'll be able to rewind time here. This industry has been carving itself a bigger piece of the economic pie for decades. The hippocratic oath is already in place, and we already have proof that areas with the highest cost of care are often providing less effective care.

All you have to do is repeal or modify the tax code for Non-profit Insurers and Hospitals. Their tax rate can be reduced based upon charity spending each year. So for example if 10% of their spending is charity (that's covering the cost of a patient who couldn't pay) then they'd see an overall reduction of their tax rate. The higher % of charity spending, the higher reduction which can be applied to all products they sell.

Your wish that we could blindly rely on doctors to do the right thing is ridiculous. That was all before the admins were making $6,000,000+/year. Those people won't take a paycut lightly.

Wait, what? I don't understand this thinking. You want EVERYBODY to kowtow to other Doctors (Scientists) on other issues.. but a medical Doctor needs to have oversight over how he or she treats it's patient. So death panels?

We RATION healthcare also. And the way we RATION healthcare is that we provide less healthcare and worse healthcare than other developed nations at even greater cost.

All healthcare is rationed in some form.. that is true. But we actually provide the most healthcare in the world and we have better outcomes then the rest of the world in Cancers, Heart Disease.

The major problem when comparing US vs the rest of developed nations is lifestyle, behavior, and diversity. 1/3rd of US people population is obese. If you look at other developed nation it's 10% or less. So that's a major difference. Another is Smoking. US has the largest % of the people that over a 50 year period that smoked which plays a role as well. With Obesity and Tobacco use in the US, we have far higher worse outcomes because of those two things no matter how well it's treated outcomes will never be favorable. But that's a patient issues, not a care issue.

Yet despite that on the care side, We have the top 2 or 3 success rates at treating all major cancers. We are also the best when it comes to heart disease (when accounting for 35% of Heart Attacks in the US in smokers are fatal).

And yes, no country has ever bene a pure democracy, no country has ever been purely capitalist. What's the point of that meaningless distiction here? Are you incapable of appreciating the difference between when a government provides basic access to healthcare and when they let the wealthy **** their poor with healthcare?

So there has never been a single payer system, yet you are calling for it. That's my point. I am all for basic access in things like yearly check ups, vaccines, and coverage for children (and even college student), and mothers.

The 60% of "non-profit" hospitals are a big part of the problem. They just keep reinvesting additional revenue into administrator salaries until the "profit" is zero.

Non-profit hospitals can't survive if it just kept money into admin salaries. Non-profit hospitals save huge amounts money for expansion and increasing capacity. Salaries for admins is based on gross revenue.

Um, no, it's not about competition, that would require that those higher salaries are associated with better outcomes, which they are not.

It is about competition. There are 4 major Hospital systems in Columbus, Ohio. Ohio State, Nationwide Children's, Ohio Health, and Mount Carmel, they all compete with each other in someway. Only one that doesn't have competition is Nationwide Children's but its 10th best Children's Hospital in the US (according to the US News and is 6th in NIH funding).

You keep assuming that spending more money means a better product. In healthcare, in this country, that relationship is inverted.

The money being spent in expanding hospitals is for better research facilities, more hospital beds (which the US has a shortage of), new methods of treatment, new equipment that have come along in medical research and specific locations for medical treatments such as behavioral, heart and so on.

Exactly, the next highest is significantly lower.

US is 25%. Xonsidering what Admin and staff are required to do in the US compared to other countries.. Those costs should be going down as US hospitals, doctors and insurance companies upgrade their billing systems.
 
Just because a party has a majority, doesn't mean they can pass anything they want.

It effectively does in the House.

>>I see you are clueless of how they make legislation.

You may not be clueless, but yer incorrect in thinking that a member of the minority, or even the minority as a whole, can play a decisive role. They don't have the votes by themselves.

You say that Frank "was instrumental in keeping reforms in the regulations from happening, that could have stopped the housing crisis." "Instrumental" in what sense?
 
You say that Frank "was instrumental in keeping reforms in the regulations from happening, that could have stopped the housing crisis." "Instrumental" in what sense?

He was adamant and convinced others that there was not going to be a housing bubble, when it was being discussed in congress.
 
Any evidence of that?

Didn't you see it those years back when it was being debated?

Sorry. I'm not going to look it up for you. Not something that old.

Wait, I'll do a quick youtube search. I remember a video. Be back in a few if I can find it.
 
0:42 and 1:34 are important:



From the start:



And the best:



That's enough. If you don't get the point, then what can I say.

C-Span videos are the best for proper context. Maybe you want to do some searches there besides what I just pulled up.
 
0:42 and 1:34 are important

I ain't watchin' yer stupid videos. If you've got nothing t' say, I'll accept yer surrender.

>>C-Span videos are the best for proper context.

And you ignore that context. The important point here is that Frank was defending the GSEs from attacks. They did little to create the problem. It was wholesale fraud by private institutions and especially interest-only adjustable-rate mortgages that led to the collapse.
 
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I ain't watchin' yer stupid videos. If you've got nothing t' say, I'll accept yer surrender.

LOL...

Three moneys.

One covers it's ears, one covers it's eyes, the others it's mouth.

LOL...

pasted-image-at-2016_05_13-01_38-pm_custom-e569ed62fa53ee379f151c4b80502f1af049787f-s900-c85.png


You cover your eyes when I type something pertinent, and your ears and eyes to proof in a video.

You are the one surrendering.

LOL...
 
LOL... Three moneys.

Yep, that's all you have to offer. Fwiw, I am not at all interested in RW BS about Barney Fag using his persuasive influence to mislead the GOP majority in the House to look the other way at housing prices getting too high. That's stuff for you and yer reactionary circle jerk pals to have fun with.
 
Yep, that's all you have to offer. Fwiw, I am not at all interested in RW BS about Barney Fag using his persuasive influence to mislead the GOP majority in the House to look the other way at housing prices getting too high. That's stuff for you and yer reactionary circle jerk pals to have fun with.

I gave you three videos and you said you aren't going to watch them.

You surrendered.

Goodbye.
 
I gave you three videos and you said you aren't going to watch them.

I've watched them before. They're standard RW BS talking points. I addressed the central issue that you continue to ignore: The Democrats were in the minority. You manufacture crap about Frank "convincing" the GOP majority. Yer not fooling anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass as you do.

>>You surrendered.

I provided a sound basis for dismissing yer nonsense.
 
I've watched them before. They're standard RW BS talking points. I addressed the central issue that you continue to ignore: The Democrats were in the minority. You manufacture crap about Frank "convincing" the GOP majority. Yer not fooling anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass as you do.

>>You surrendered.

I provided a sound basis for dismissing yer nonsense.

His own words are BS?

Well, at least we agree there!
 
No, claiming that he was somehow able to "convince" those in the GOP majority of anything is the BS. Who had the majority? Who had the votes?
He was part o0f the committee, and they have to get it out of committee first.

Ever watch C-Span?

It's pretty interesting.

The way congress works, the majority can't get it's way any time it wants.
 
He was part o0f the committee, and they have to get it out of committee first.

Can you count? He was in the minority — NONE of their votes are required.

>>Ever watch C-Span? It's pretty interesting.

I used to watch it a lot, but not so much any more. One thing I'm sure of is that I've watched many more hours than you have. And why are you pretending that you watch it? Everyone knows where you got those clips— RW hate media. Are you suggesting that you watched the actual broadcasts?

>>The way congress works, the majority can't get it's way any time it wants.

Try learning how Congress operates. The majority rules in the House.
 
Barney Frank-N-Furter was instrumental in keeping reforms in the regulations from happening, that could have stopped the housing crisis.

How could that be when Conservatives controlled the House of Representatives from 1995-2007?
 
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