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A Privately Funded Experiment in a Universal Basic Income

jonny5

jonny5

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A Privately Funded Experiment in a Universal Basic Income - Hit & Run : Reason.com

In one set of villages, every adult will receive monthly payments equivalent to 75 cents a day for two years.

• In another set of villages, every adult will receive such payments for 12 years.

• In yet another set of villages, the adults will receive a single lump-sum payment equivalent to what the two-year group will be receiving.

• The last set of villages is the control group, so they don't get any money at all.
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What do you think will happen? Will they follow basic human nature and waste the money (or find a clever way to abuse it). Or will they use the subsistence income to free them up to improve their situation?

I dont really have a good answer. Its possible that those without the understanding of how to improve can do so even if given a handout. Perhaps this will increase crime as those in the area who dont get the income will move in to steal from those who do.
 
jonny5 said:
What do you think will happen? Will they follow basic human nature and waste the money (or find a clever way to abuse it). Or will they use the subsistence income to free them up to improve their situation?

I dont really have a good answer. Its possible that those without the understanding of how to improve can do so even if given a handout. Perhaps this will increase crime as those in the area who dont get the income will move in to steal from those who do.
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Who's gonna pay for this universal income again?
 
jonny5 said:
What do you think will happen? Will they follow basic human nature and waste the money (or find a clever way to abuse it). Or will they use the subsistence income to free them up to improve their situation?

I dont really have a good answer. Its possible that those without the understanding of how to improve can do so even if given a handout. Perhaps this will increase crime as those in the area who dont get the income will move in to steal from those who do.
Click to expand...

Cool. The Fins are experimenting in this too. They want to see, if it would enable them to get rid of the huge bureaucracy from the social democratic era. They say it cannot be sustained and that they must therefore eliminate the costs but somehow keep the promises made to the population.

The experience in the US experiments were relatively encouraging with only small negative impacts.
 
WCH said:
Who's gonna pay for this universal income again?
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Actually it should be cheaper than the present transfer systems. We almost got a similar program during the Nixon administration, after having a number of successful field experiments. Congress decided against it by a small margin, if I recall the numbers correctly.
 
WCH said:
Who's gonna pay for this universal income again?
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It's "privately funded", although since it's so cheap I wouldn't have a problem with our government doing something similar.
 
joG said:
Cool. The Fins are experimenting in this too. They want to see, if it would enable them to get rid of the huge bureaucracy from the social democratic era. They say it cannot be sustained and that they must therefore eliminate the costs but somehow keep the promises made to the population.

The experience in the US experiments were relatively encouraging with only small negative impacts.
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Im sure it would, but itll just end up like Greece either way, so it doesnt matter. Eventually the bottom will become so large it drags everyone down.
 
the problem with this is like everything else. it soon balloons out of control.
the first estimates are not enough. they need more. prices increase etc ...

then people use it as a tool for power over people. just like they do with social services now.

you still require more people paying in than taking out only now everyone is getting it.
 
ludin said:
the problem with this is like everything else. it soon balloons out of control.
the first estimates are not enough. they need more. prices increase etc ...

then people use it as a tool for power over people. just like they do with social services now.

you still require more people paying in than taking out only now everyone is getting it.
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Cap it in the Constitution forbidding and other transfers to citizens.
 
WCH said:
Who's gonna pay for this universal income again?
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If this was a test that reflected reality, the total amount handed out would be divided among everyone equally. Doing some quick math using 1,000 people per village, the cost to the community as a whole would .25 a day per person for 12 years. So the people who are getting .75 a day are actually only getting .50 a day and that's just those in the "12 year" village. For the rest, they will end up paying more than they got.
 
joG said:
Cap it in the Constitution forbidding and other transfers to citizens.
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then where is the money going to come from thin air?

Even if you took all social service spending and divided it out how long do you think it will last?
more so before people start complaining it isn't enough.

that doesn't include price increases on items.

more money (supply) = more demand (products) = higher prices.
 
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jonny5 said:
Pragmatic libertarian is an oxymoron. I will never be convinced to force one person to pay for another.
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Then you have no concept of "society", "the collective good" and "taxes" and how that all functions smoothly when intelligently applied and continuously evaluated.
 
ludin said:
then where is the money going to come from thin air?

Even if you took all social service spending and divided it out how long do you think it will last?
more so before people start complaining it isn't enough.

that doesn't include price increases on items.

more money (supply) = more demand (products) = higher prices.
Click to expand...

It would by far and way pay for itself, if correctly structured. There is a quite good articles on negative tax, basic income or guaranteed minimum income. They are well worth reading.

In general, the structure would be such that the minimum income would be paid by the IRS, there would be no deductible and taxes would increas lenearly from the first earned dollar. There would be no Social Security nor any social programs. This would eliminate redistributory social programs bureaucracies. The savings would be substantial, in deed. That is why Finland wants to introduce it.
 
joG said:
It would by far and way pay for itself, if correctly structured. There is a quite good articles on negative tax, basic income or guaranteed minimum income. They are well worth reading.

In general, the structure would be such that the minimum income would be paid by the IRS, there would be no deductible and taxes would increas lenearly from the first earned dollar. There would be no Social Security nor any social programs. This would eliminate redistributory social programs bureaucracies. The savings would be substantial, in deed. That is why Finland wants to introduce it.
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Where is the IRS going to get the monies?
 
Bobbaker said:
Then you have no concept of "society", "the collective good" and "taxes" and how that all functions smoothly when intelligently applied and continuously evaluated.
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Yeah that's why as a country, we're $20 trillion in the whole. Progressive thinking.
 
WCH said:
Where is the IRS going to get the monies?
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it will have to be redistributive and people making a certain amount of money won't get anything as usual.
 
WCH said:
Where is the IRS going to get the monies?
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Where out of the deductible, costs saved social programs bureaucracis, Social Security disbursements etc.
 
Bobbaker said:
Then you have no concept of "society", "the collective good" and "taxes" and how that all functions smoothly when intelligently applied and continuously evaluated.
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Dur. me dum dum. no headmeat. you smarty smary. you talk me stuff
 
joG said:
Where out of the deductible, costs saved social programs bureaucracis, Social Security disbursements etc.
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Sounds like lipstick on a pig. Still a pig.
 
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