• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Proof That Manufacturing Is Not Dead In The US

A factory worker's biggest enemy is not outsourcing but rather technology. It is simple human workers are being replaced by robots, cheaper and more productive robots.
 
Visbek said:
Ooookay....

First of all, manufacturing is nowhere near dead in the US. Manufacturing OUTPUT, as I keep telling people, is at record highs. A partial chart:

fredgraph.png



What has happened is that manufacturing EMPLOYMENT has shrank, to around 10% of the US labor force:

fredgraph.png



This is because manufacturing productivity went through the roof (though lately it has flattened out):

fredgraph.png



And yes, some of us know about onshoring. The problem is that when companies bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, they heavily automate the process, meaning they need a fraction of the employees they needed 10 or 15 years ago.

Even your own link discusses this: "In the old days, a mill like this would have needed 4,000 workers. Here it takes only 650 to churn out more than 3 million tons of steel a year."

The Golden Triangle also highlights some other aspects. You need to find cheap US labor, from a population that is borderline desperate; areas that hate unions; at-will states, so they can fire people at the drop of a hat; state governments that are willing to give generous tax breaks; local politicians whose palms are easy to grease.

Keep in mind we're not talking about workers earning $25/hour, with a pension, and protections from getting fired. This is more like $15/hour for manufacturing work -- e.g. the median household wage in Lowndes County, center of the Golden Triangle, is $36,000/yr (which is far below the US median of $55,000/yr).

And even then, labor in Mexico or China can be 50-75% cheaper.

So yes, some jobs will onshore. But it's not going to turn the clock back to 1962. Not by a long shot.
Click to expand...

But the point is the economy is changing and that doesn't mean that we just let these jobs go and force Walmart and McDonalds to pay $15 per hour. That is and extreme position. The guy in this clip shows it doesn't have to be that way.
 
Chomsky said:
Liberals think right here, for the most part.

As proven by the President-Elect, and VP-Elect & sitting governor, failing grossly at stopping the bulk of Carrier jobs moving to Mexico, even after plying Carrier with taxpayer money and who know's what else?

If you think you can make the case for paying American wages for labor that can be done in The Philippines & Indonesia for 3 bucks a day, with no OSHA, no EPA, nor labor law courts - please do tell! I'm all ears!
Click to expand...

Did you not watch the clip?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Gosh, that's an odd claim. Which liberals think that?

Please name some names.
Click to expand...

Name some names? Apparently you must not read many posts on this site. Just read the posts in this thread for God's sake.
 
Visbek said:
Actually, pretty well.

There are 15 million self-employed in the US. Before the ACA, unless you could get coverage some other way (e.g. via a spouse), it was very difficult and expensive to get insurance as a sole proprietor. Many insurers would refuse to offer any coverage, or would refuse to cover "pre-existing" conditions.

Millions of these freelancers and sole proprietors now have health insurance. That's a tax deduction for them, and some starting out or who have a tough year might even be eligible for subsidies.

Aren't you glad you asked?
Click to expand...

That's just the stupid liberal thinking when they have no experience in the matter and just read news stories and look at charts pulled off of the internet. I own my own business. It was costing me over $23,000 per year for family health insurance coverage and out of pocket expenses. Yes, I could write the premiums off through my business but that doesn't really add up to that much in the big scheme of things. Obamacare was so bad for us that my wife had to go out and get a job so that we could have health insurance through her work. Last year we probably paid a grand total of about $6000 for both premiums and out of pocket expenses.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's just the stupid liberal thinking when they have no experience in the matter and just read news stories and look at charts pulled off of the internet. I own my own business. It was costing me over $23,000 per year for family health insurance coverage and out of pocket expenses. Yes, I could write the premiums off through my business but that doesn't really add up to that much in the big scheme of things. Obamacare was so bad for us that my wife had to go out and get a job so that we could have health insurance through her work. Last year we probably paid a grand total of about $6000 for both premiums and out of pocket expenses.
Click to expand...
Wait....are you complaining about the ACA....and you are not even using it.....and....yer medical costs declined?

Wow.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's just the stupid liberal thinking when they have no experience in the matter and just read news stories and look at charts pulled off of the internet. I own my own business. It was costing me over $23,000 per year for family health insurance coverage and out of pocket expenses. Yes, I could write the premiums off through my business but that doesn't really add up to that much in the big scheme of things. Obamacare was so bad for us that my wife had to go out and get a job so that we could have health insurance through her work. Last year we probably paid a grand total of about $6000 for both premiums and out of pocket expenses.
Click to expand...

Are you claiming that a la carte insurance was cheap before the ACA? Because health insurance premiums have been rising like crazy for many years.

The only answer to high-cost insurance through for-profit companies is single payer, paid for by Uncle Sam. But Republicans killed that baby before it was even born.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
WTF does that have to do with manufacturing leaving the US since the 60's?

Try, please TRY to stay on topic.
Click to expand...

Manufacturing has been making a comeback the last few years. Please try to stay on topic.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Ah, so you can't back up your claim.

Got it. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Typical liberal peddling BS. There are names of liberal posters right here in this thread. Not my fault if you are illiterate.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Wait....are you complaining about the ACA....and you are not even using it.....and....yer medical costs declined?

Wow.
Click to expand...

I WAS using the ACA. Couldn't afford it so my wife had to get a job with a large employer so we could have affordable health insurance.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's just the stupid liberal thinking when they have no experience in the matter and just read news stories and look at charts pulled off of the internet.
Click to expand...

Don't you just hate it when facts contradict your world-view???
 
Moderate Right said:
Typical liberal peddling BS. There are names of liberal posters right here in this thread. Not my fault if you are illiterate.
Click to expand...

Look, I get it: you made a claim, you can't back it up, you've become emotional and now you have to label those who make you look foolish as 'liberal'.

Not my fault you can't walk it like you talk it.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Are you claiming that a la carte insurance was cheap before the ACA? Because health insurance premiums have been rising like crazy for many years.

The only answer to high-cost insurance through for-profit companies is single payer, paid for by Uncle Sam. But Republicans killed that baby before it was even born.
Click to expand...

I even have a pre-existing condition and my private plan health insurance was much cheaper before the ACA. After the ACA my private plan was canceled (which was a much better policy than my eventual ACA policy) and my ACA premiums skyrocketed exponentially several years in a row when we finally had to throw in the towel and my wife had to look for work with a large employer in order to get much cheaper insurance. Due to my pre-existing condition I have been in contact with fellow patients around the entire world and I wouldn't want their crappy national health insurance.
 
Moderate Right said:
I even have a pre-existing condition and my private plan health insurance was much cheaper before the ACA. After the ACA my private plan was canceled (which was a much better policy than my eventual ACA policy) and my ACA premiums skyrocketed exponentially several years in a row when we finally had to throw in the towel and my wife had to look for work with a large employer in order to get much cheaper insurance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't buy these "Obamacare victims" for a second. Not after the Julie Boonstra debacle.
 
Incisor said:
Don't you just hate it when facts contradict your world-view???
Click to expand...

The facts were in the op video. Don't you just hate it when facts contradict your liberal narrative?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Look, I get it: you made a claim, you can't back it up, you've become emotional and now you have to label those who make you look foolish as 'liberal'.

Not my fault you can't walk it like you talk it.
Click to expand...

I made a claim that is backed up by the liberal posts in this very thread. All you have to do is read them.
 
Moderate Right said:
The facts were in the op video. Don't you just hate it when facts contradict your liberal narrative?
Click to expand...

The facts were in the actual article. In that article, it says that he wouldn't have been able to do anything he did without first getting a couple downpayments from the government:

Higgins had to convince county supervisors to spend almost $12 million on that first site where Steel Dynamics now sits.
Click to expand...

He pressed the county to fork over $400,000 for water and sewer to get the helicopter plant off the ground.
Click to expand...

So this guy didn't create jobs in Mississippi simply by using "Conservative economics", unless you count taking money from the government as "Conservative economics".
 
Incisor said:
Yeah, I don't buy these "Obamacare victims" for a second. Not after the Julie Boonstra debacle.
Click to expand...

So there are no Obamacare victims at all? Not even one? Haven't you read about premiums skyrocketing across the country this year? That's not right wing news. I'm not even talking about any of that. I'm talking about my own personal experience of which you won't even believe because it doesn't fit into your liberal propaganda.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I'm sorry, where is the "factual" basis for your supposed enrollment in the ACA?
Click to expand...

How am I supposed to prove to you that I was indeed in the ACA? I'll make a deal with you. If you prove to me that you are not a murderer I'll prove to you that I was in the ACA.
 
Moderate Right said:
How am I supposed to prove to you that I was indeed in the ACA? I'll make a deal with you. If you prove to me that you are not a murderer I'll prove to you that I was in the ACA.
Click to expand...
Um, showing plan numbers, group numbers....any sort of documentation that does not reveal your name or address is fine.

PS...Proof of a negative (what you want from me) is not the same as positive proof (you are claiming you HAVE BEEN in the ACA)....and this is not a subtle difference, but then again I've seen you make all sorts of dumb logic errors.

PPS...and since you are admitting that you have not shown such documentation, you never have been discussing "the fact" that you were in the ACA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom