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Kansas Conservative Economics So Bad They're Hiding the Stats

Incisor said:
They are? You sure about that? Doesn't seem like nominating Trump as the standard bearer for all your ideas was very smart.


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There are plenty of reason why Trump isn't qualified to be President, but his tax policy isn't one of them
 
JC Callender said:
Everyone's working in Kansas whether you like it or not, so take that b.s. excuse and get lost. How dare you hold up Brownback as the reason why conservative economics don't work when unemployment in Kansas is lower than whale sh!t.

Concerning the inner cities, there is poverty elsewhere. But where would you rather live with your family, the Appalachians or Detroit? And what red state has higher unemployment than Detroit? Not Kentucky, like you say....their unemployment rate is 4.9%. And you say red states are taker states, well why do they vote Republican? Wouldn't it be easier to secure your welfare payments in the future by voting Democrat?
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Detroit isn't a state.

And Michigan's unemployment is only 5.4%. Not great, but not horrible considering we were among the hardest hit.
 
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JC Callender said:
Everyone's working in Kansas whether you like it or not
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Who said I didn't like it? What I don't like is that Kansas has poor income growth. 49th in the nation, in fact. So while it's great that they have low unemployment, it's no so great because their wages aren't climbing, which means they fall further behind.


How dare you hold up Brownback as the reason why conservative economics don't work when unemployment in Kansas is lower than whale sh!t.
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Unemployment was low in Kansas to start, so you're not really making a point there. Kansas' job creation growth trails the national average. Kansas' GDP growth trails the national average. Kansas has missed revenue projections for 35 of the last 42 months. It's Transportation Fund was raided in order to pay for these tax cuts (which it didn't so anyway), as was Public Education which forced schools to close early in the school year. Because Kansas doesn't fund public education anymore, the quality of teachers in the state also declines. So your education metrics end up dropping as well. Celebrating Kansas' economy is like celebrating being the prettiest girl in Wasilla, Alaska. The bar is set awfully low.

Concerning the inner cities, there is poverty elsewhere. But where would you rather live with your family, the Appalachians or Detroit?
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Detroit. More opportunity there. But Detroit's problems stem from the "white flight" out to the suburbs where they don't have to pay 100% of the Detroit City taxes, even though they work in Detroit itself. So Detroit provides all this infrastructure and services for the businesses that employ people outside the city, so they don't pay taxes. That starves the Treasury of revenue which is what leads to things like librarians' pensions being cut or water service being shut off. None of that has to do with "liberal" policies, and everything to do with Conservative policy of outsourcing.

And what red state has higher unemployment than Detroit?
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Detroit and Michigan have been under the Control of the "Emergency managers" since Snyder became governor. That was 6 years ago. So if Conservatives haven't done anything to help Detroit in the last 6 years, when will they ever. BTW - Harlan County, KY has a higher unemployment rate (11.6%) than Detroit, MI (10.5%).


And you say red states are taker states, well why do they vote Republican?
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You answered your own question. The "taker" part. You subsidize low tax rates with government welfare. Of the Federal Welfare Block Grants, red states are only mandated to spend 33% of the block grant on welfare programs. The rest they use at their discretion. Guess what they use it for? Plugging deficits.
 
joG said:
I would hope that public universities "pick and choose" their students. If they aren#t, then they are even more wasteful than I thought. In Germany the do "pick and choose" in the expensive faculties, but that is not enough to put any but one among the leading universities globally.
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Public Education is accessible to all student. Whether they can afford it determines whether or not they can go. Since 1981, state funding for public colleges and universities has been cut, which increases tuition costs, which increases borrowing, which increases debt.
 
KLATTU said:
There are plenty of reason why Trump isn't qualified to be President, but his tax policy isn't one of them
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It's one of the main reasons. Because it's the same tax policy that failed during Reagan, Bush the Dumber, and in states like Kansas, Wisconsin, and Louisiana.
 
Incisor said:
It's one of the main reasons. Because it's the same tax policy that failed during Reagan, Bush the Dumber, and in states like Kansas, Wisconsin, and Louisiana.
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So Bush the dumber takes over. The country is headed toward recession. Then we have 9/11. Bush cuts taxes. Despite 9/11,the economy starts growing again. By 2006 the deficit is down to a mere 100 bill.

That's 'failure"? Sounds like somebody needs to take their partisan glasses off.
 
KLATTU said:
So Bush the dumber takes over. The country is headed toward recession. Then we have 9/11. Bush cuts taxes. Despite 9/11,the economy starts growing again. By 2006 the deficit is down to a mere 100 bill.
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Bush the Dumber takes over and inherits a budget surplus. While it's true the dotcom bubble burst in 2000 (and the Conservative 1997 Capital Gains Tax Cut was the cause of the dotcom bubble), GDP for 2001 was still positive, even with 9/11 and the mild recession. The Stock market regained all its losses on 9/11 by November of that year. So there's no excuse.

The economy didn't start growing until around 2004, and that was only because of the mortgage bubble that was caused by the Bush Tax Cuts. Bush himself even tied his tax cuts to the housing market he was inflating during his 2004 campaign. This mortgage bubble was the only reason Bush's economy grew at all. From 2001-4, Bush lost 811,000 private sector jobs, erased a surplus, produced a record deficit, and had the worst growth since the Great Depression. After 8 years of Bush, 460,000 net private sector jobs were lost, the highest deficit ever recorded was produced, the economy collapsed, household debt skyrocketed, and 750,000 people a month were losing their jobs. Oh, and let's not forget the pointless military occupations of not one, but two middle eastern nations, an inability to catch Osama bin Laden or prevent Iran from building a nuclear program, terror attacks against all our allies, an oil bubble, an overloaded VA system (thanks in part to the millions of new veterans created by those pointless occupations), and the indefinite detention and torture of people in various illegal and immoral prison camps around the world.

That doesn't sound like success to me.
 
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Incisor said:
Bush the Dumber takes over and inherits a budget surplus. While it's true the dotcom bubble burst in 2000 (and the Conservative 1997 Capital Gains Tax Cut was the cause of the dotcom bubble), GDP for 2001 was still positive, even with 9/11 and the mild recession. The Stock market regained all its losses on 9/11 by November of that year. So there's no excuse.

The economy didn't start growing until around 2004, and that was only because of the mortgage bubble that was caused by the Bush Tax Cuts. Bush himself even tied his tax cuts to the housing market he was inflating during his 2004 campaign. This mortgage bubble was the only reason Bush's economy grew at all. From 2001-4, Bush lost 811,000 private sector jobs, erased a surplus, produced a record deficit, and had the worst growth since the Great Depression. After 8 years of Bush, 460,000 net private sector jobs were lost, the highest deficit ever recorded was produced, the economy collapsed, household debt skyrocketed, and 750,000 people a month were losing their jobs. Oh, and let's not forget the pointless military occupations of not one, but two middle eastern nations, an inability to catch Osama bin Laden or prevent Iran from building a nuclear program, terror attacks against all our allies, an oil bubble, an overloaded VA system (thanks in part to the millions of new veterans created by those pointless occupations), and the indefinite detention and torture of people in various illegal and immoral prison camps around the world.

That doesn't sound like success to me.
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LAFFRIOT.

You sound as logical as Tom Cruise defending Scientology.
 
Incisor said:
Who said I didn't like it? What I don't like is that Kansas has poor income growth. 49th in the nation, in fact. So while it's great that they have low unemployment, it's no so great because their wages aren't climbing, which means they fall further behind.




Unemployment was low in Kansas to start, so you're not really making a point there. Kansas' job creation growth trails the national average. Kansas' GDP growth trails the national average. Kansas has missed revenue projections for 35 of the last 42 months. It's Transportation Fund was raided in order to pay for these tax cuts (which it didn't so anyway), as was Public Education which forced schools to close early in the school year. Because Kansas doesn't fund public education anymore, the quality of teachers in the state also declines. So your education metrics end up dropping as well. Celebrating Kansas' economy is like celebrating being the prettiest girl in Wasilla, Alaska. The bar is set awfully low.



Detroit. More opportunity there. But Detroit's problems stem from the "white flight" out to the suburbs where they don't have to pay 100% of the Detroit City taxes, even though they work in Detroit itself. So Detroit provides all this infrastructure and services for the businesses that employ people outside the city, so they don't pay taxes. That starves the Treasury of revenue which is what leads to things like librarians' pensions being cut or water service being shut off. None of that has to do with "liberal" policies, and everything to do with Conservative policy of outsourcing.



Detroit and Michigan have been under the Control of the "Emergency managers" since Snyder became governor. That was 6 years ago. So if Conservatives haven't done anything to help Detroit in the last 6 years, when will they ever. BTW - Harlan County, KY has a higher unemployment rate (11.6%) than Detroit, MI (10.5%).




You answered your own question. The "taker" part. You subsidize low tax rates with government welfare. Of the Federal Welfare Block Grants, red states are only mandated to spend 33% of the block grant on welfare programs. The rest they use at their discretion. Guess what they use it for? Plugging deficits.
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No, Detroit and Michigan haven't been under Emergency Managers, Detroit has. And you don't want to live there, they would rape you. Besides there are no opportunities, unless you want to pull the 6' tall weeds growing in the sidewalks or pick up the garbage the rolls around half vacant streets like tumbleweed. You would be doing those things for free though, since the city is broke and can't even afford equipment for their fire department. So as you can see, there's no comparison between Detroit and Kansas and this is where you call me a racist because you have no reasonable rebuttal.
 
JC Callender said:
No, Detroit and Michigan haven't been under Emergency Managers, Detroit has. And you don't want to live there, they would rape you. Besides there are no opportunities, unless you want to pull the 6' tall weeds growing in the sidewalks or pick up the garbage the rolls around half vacant streets like tumbleweed. You would be doing those things for free though, since the city is broke and can't even afford equipment for their fire department. So as you can see, there's no comparison between Detroit and Kansas and this is where you call me a racist because you have no reasonable rebuttal.
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LOL! This post.
 
Supply-side economics is a religion, which is way so many Conservatives believe it despite the facts.

Kansas is falling year after year and instead of switching tactics, Conservatives continue to follow the supposed only "just" path of feed the rich and be blessed with the crumbs that fall from their plates.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-24/kansas-ends-bad-economic-news-by-not-reporting-it

A summary of the Brownback record shows:

Kansas’ gross state product fell behind the six-state region and the nation for the third straight year. (Kansas’ gross state product grew at a faster rate when compared to the region and the nation in three of the five years before Brownback took office in 2011).
Private industry wages in Kansas grew at a slower pace last year than they did in the region and the U.S. -- as they did during the past five years.
The number of private business establishments in Kansas trailed both the region and the nation for the last year, again continuing a five-year trend.
By just about every measure, Kansas’ tax experiment has failed to meet the promised performance objectives. Killing the quarterly report won’t change this. If anything -- if what Drucker said is right -- ending the reporting may make things worse.

Brownback is now said to be considering tax hikes. He has paid the deserved price for his errors, with a 26 percent approval rating, the lowest of any governor in the U.S. The people of Kansas have paid a bigger price. Undoing the harm will take a new governor and, though it may seem far-fetched, I think he should step down and make way for fresh leadership.

Absent that, all we can do is to call out misguided economic beliefs wherever they appear.
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