Trumps Childcare Wealth Redisribution Program

jonny5 · Sep 15, 2016

cpwill said:
:shrug: the rest of our government, especially our social safety net, has deep structural issues. That, however, does not mean that every single program that shifts resources creates dependency on government handouts.

But many do and those are ones that concern me. The rest are probably more about punishing us than creating dependency. If govt cant get you addicted they can make you afraid instead. Look at the war on drugs.

cpwill · Sep 15, 2016

jonny5 said:
But many do and those are ones that concern me

Me as well. But attempting to fix those areas requires that we be able to accurately identify and describe them.

JasperL · Sep 15, 2016

jonny5 said:
Facts:

-available to tax filers with income up to 250k single/500k married
-deduct 100% of child care cost up to 12k from income
-deductions for employers who provide childcare
-expanded EITC for poor, equaling half of payroll tax paid
-6 weeks federally funded maternity leave
-matching funding for dependent savings account $1000 gets you $500

Which means those of us without children get to pay more taxes, so those who have them can pay less, or get a credit if youre poor. This is not conservative, and its exactly why the Republican party is in civil war. Bush did exactly the same kind of things, though his came from his compassion, not his narcissm. Regardless its unfair, increases the complexity of the tax system, encourages irresponsible behavior, and is a form of wealth redistribution.

Which is all bad.

Just as a general rule, I'm not sure why anyone pays attention to anything Trump proposes with regard to taxes. His plan so far includes about $12 Trillion in tax cuts for the first decade, so are impossible. This plan for child care is equally impossible unless he tells us where he's going to find $1,200 billion per year spending cuts in a budget of $4,000 billion per year, and keep the military strong, and fully fund Medicare and SS, which are all promises of his.

Why not just offer for the Feds to fully fund 100% of the costs of all childcare for every single parent? It's got as much chance and is just as fiscally responsible as the tax plan he's got on the books, which is to say it's impossible and/or fiscally reckless. Giving this serious consideration given what his overall tax plan represents is just insane. Of course it's not paid for, since he's got to first find $1.2 trillion per year in savings, THEN add this new shiny plan to the bill and pay for it, too.

jonny5 · Sep 15, 2016

JasperL said:
Just as a general rule, I'm not sure why anyone pays attention to anything Trump proposes with regard to taxes. His plan so far includes about $12 Trillion in tax cuts for the first decade, so are impossible. This plan for child care is equally impossible unless he tells us where he's going to find $1,200 billion per year spending cuts in a budget of $4,000 billion per year, and keep the military strong, and fully fund Medicare and SS, which are all promises of his.

Why not just offer for the Feds to fully fund 100% of the costs of all childcare for every single parent? It's got as much chance and is just as fiscally responsible as the tax plan he's got on the books, which is to say it's impossible and/or fiscally reckless. Giving this serious consideration given what his overall tax plan represents is just insane. Of course it's not paid for, since he's got to first find $1.2 trillion per year in savings, THEN add this new shiny plan to the bill and pay for it, too.

Well for my part, I want to cause conservatives to dislike him. Regardless of whether its affordable, its not in line with the people who supoprt him. Maybe theyll stop being sheep and wake up.

JasperL · Sep 15, 2016

jonny5 said:
He also says that he pays for it through UI fraud savings.

"Waste, fraud and abuse" - anyone using that nonsense as a method to fund anything is by definition a fraud/con man. All it means is the person knows if he identified actual spending cuts someone would be mad, so pretend that the only people hurt by the plan are those fraudsters....

Whenever I hear "waste fraud and/or abuse" I just substitute "Tax Santa Clause", which is about the same concept in reality. "Dynamic effects" or "Growth" mean roughly the same.

JasperL · Sep 15, 2016

jonny5 said:
Well for my part, I want to cause conservatives to dislike him. Regardless of whether its affordable, its not in line with the people who supoprt him. Maybe theyll stop being sheep and wake up.

I understand, but I don't think there is an actually large group of people in the country who are "conservative" by your definition. The only 'conservative' budget principle on the right in practice that I can see is a belief in low tax rates, period. Republican voters at least love government benefits and subsidies like everyone else, they just don't like taxes to pay for them, and they sure don't like benefits that flow to the poors. But mess with middle class tax subsidies/benefits - mortgage deductions, charity, excluding health insurance from income taxes, SS or Medicare - and you've got a BIG! problem even if you're a republican.

It's one thing that Trump gets that the rest of the GOP doesn't, or at least they haven't been up front about it like Trump has.

jonny5 · Sep 15, 2016

JasperL said:
I understand, but I don't think there is an actually large group of people in the country who are "conservative" by your definition. The only 'conservative' budget principle on the right in practice that I can see is a belief in low tax rates, period. Republican voters at least love government benefits and subsidies like everyone else, they just don't like taxes to pay for them, and they sure don't like benefits that flow to the poors. But mess with middle class tax subsidies/benefits - mortgage deductions, charity, excluding health insurance from income taxes, SS or Medicare - and you've got a BIG! problem even if you're a republican.

It's one thing that Trump gets that the rest of the GOP doesn't, or at least they haven't been up front about it like Trump has.

Dont confuse republicans with conservatives. Republicans care about power. Conservatives should care about principle. This is why the GOP is in trouble. The ideologues are waking up.