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Am I a worse person now that my income has decreased?

Am I a worse person now that my income has decreased?

  • Yes, you did bad things to make this happen.

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Yes (other explanation)

    Votes: 1 4.8%

  • No, you are the same person regardless of your income.

    Votes: 17 81.0%

  • No (other explanation)

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Dittohead not! said:
You're 60 and don't get regular check ups?

You really should have a doctor, and take advantage of the health care system you help pay for.
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Our healthcare system is under a lot of financial and resource pressure as it is - I don't need to be clogging up the system any more with doctor's visits, tests, being sent out for more tests, prescriptions for unnecessary medications, etc., etc. I did go to the clinic, about 7 years ago, when I managed to somehow contract chicken pox and was prescribed some antibiotics and advice to buy some baking soda and take lots of baking soda baths - was great advice. Other than that, I've had no reason to seek "doctoring". Besides, my mom used significant healthcare resources in the last decade of her life, so it all balances out.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Our healthcare system is under a lot of financial and resource pressure as it is - I don't need to be clogging up the system any more with doctor's visits, tests, being sent out for more tests, prescriptions for unnecessary medications, etc., etc. I did go to the clinic, about 7 years ago, when I managed to somehow contract chicken pox and was prescribed some antibiotics and advice to buy some baking soda and take lots of baking soda baths - was great advice. Other than that, I've had no reason to seek "doctoring". Besides, my mom used significant healthcare resources in the last decade of her life, so it all balances out.
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You can save the system money in the long run if they identify a condition in its early stages before it requires extensive and expensive procedures.

Perhaps they would have recommended a chicken pox vaccination before you came down with that disease.

Did you know that you're now at risk for shingles, and that there is a vaccine for that too?
 
Dittohead not! said:
You can save the system money in the long run if they identify a condition in its early stages before it requires extensive and expensive procedures.

Perhaps they would have recommended a chicken pox vaccination before you came down with that disease.

Did you know that you're now at risk for shingles, and that there is a vaccine for that too?
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I didn't know I didn't have chicken pox as a child and no doctor ever asked me so getting a chicken pox vaccine was never an issue - as for now, yes I've been vaccinated for shingles.

As for preventative treatments, most that deal with serious conditions cause other serious conditions. I'm not interested in spending the rest of my life juggling a cocktail of medications to prevent something that will more than likely cause me more harm than good.
 
radcen said:
But would you take it if necessary?

When I was younger, I wouldn't. Now that I'm older I have less qualms. Maybe it's experience. Maybe it's because I realize what *I* have paid in. I don't know, but I would take it if needed. In the interest of full disclosure, I have never had to apply for welfare or food stamps, etc., but I did take unemployment benefits* when I was unemployed.

*- Some will disagree, but I consider what my employer paid into unemployment as being part of my overall base compensation... the cost of employing me, my overall compensation package, is only part what I get.
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Imo, things like unemployment and social security are different from actual welfare, as those have been paid into (directly or indirectly) by those who would receive said benefits. I'm thinking more along the lines of food stamps, housing, and other unearned benefits. I also see a definite difference between people who want to be on the government dole because they HAVE to, as opposed to those who are milking the system, when they are capable of better.
 
lizzie said:
Imo, things like unemployment and social security are different from actual welfare, as those have been paid into (directly or indirectly) by those who would receive said benefits. I'm thinking more along the lines of food stamps, housing, and other unearned benefits.
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My interpretation: It's ok to bum off of the government but it's never ok to bum off of the government.

lizzie said:
I also see a definite difference between people who want to be on the government dole because they HAVE to, as opposed to those who are milking the system, when they are capable of better.
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My interpretation: It's ok to be white but it's never ok to be black.
 
LowDown said:
Besides which, it's so odd that any government person would say that. They don't make that much money.
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Another thing that you never hear from anybody at all. Wait! There is one group of people that says this crap. :roll: Those poor underpaid teachers. Those poor underpaid military members. :roll: :roll:

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Some people only work 25-40 hours per week. That's $9,425 - $15,080 per year. Companies are goofy and never pay minimum wage. They usually bump it up to $8 for some reason. Still that's only $10,400 - $16,640. No!!!!! Government employees make really good money. Have you ever heard of a government employee leave his job? Ever? It can happen. If that person did leave their government job was it to collect retirement, to get a lower paying job or to get a higher paying job? Hint: It wasn't to get a higher paying job.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Another thing that you never hear from anybody at all. Wait! There is one group of people that says this crap. :roll: Those poor underpaid teachers. Those poor underpaid military members. :roll: :roll:

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Some people only work 25-40 hours per week. That's $9,425 - $15,080 per year. Companies are goofy and never pay minimum wage. They usually bump it up to $8 for some reason. Still that's only $10,400 - $16,640. No!!!!! Government employees make really good money. Have you ever heard of a government employee leave his job? Ever? It can happen. If that person did leave their government job was it to collect retirement, to get a lower paying job or to get a higher paying job? Hint: It wasn't to get a higher paying job.
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Government workers trade a higher salary for greater job security and good benefits. When comparing wages we usually compare like with like. Engineers to engineers, doctors to doctors, etc. On that basis government workers make significantly less.
 
LowDown said:
Government workers trade a higher salary for greater job security and good benefits. When comparing wages we usually compare like with like. Engineers to engineers, doctors to doctors, etc. On that basis government workers make significantly less.
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Underpaid people leave their job. They don't whine.

Scam artists stay at their job. They do whine. They exist in every type of organization. They want a raise and they know damn well there is no justification for it. If you have been underpaid for 5 years then you are a liar. It's that simple.

Besides I have heard teachers compared to football players. :lamo
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Underpaid people leave their job. They don't whine.

Scam artists stay at their job. They do whine. They exist in every type of organization. They want a raise and they know damn well there is no justification for it. If you have been underpaid for 5 years then you are a liar. It's that simple.

Besides I have heard teachers compared to football players. :lamo
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Government workers are presumably happy with their level of pay, but not because they are being paid a lot more. They have other advantages.

The government uses some sort of Marxist based labor value theory to set the level of pay. In the private sector there aren't that many top quarterbacks who can pass into the end zone from their own 1 yard line, so they can demand a lot more money. If you are running a stand alone hospital and need a staff radiologist then you have to offer what it takes to get someone. That might end up being more than the average. If the government has such a vacancy then it just goes begging if no one is willing to work for the offered pay, hence long waiting times at the VA for an MRI.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Our healthcare system is under a lot of financial and resource pressure as it is - I don't need to be clogging up the system any more with doctor's visits, tests, being sent out for more tests, prescriptions for unnecessary medications, etc., etc. I did go to the clinic, about 7 years ago, when I managed to somehow contract chicken pox and was prescribed some antibiotics and advice to buy some baking soda and take lots of baking soda baths - was great advice. Other than that, I've had no reason to seek "doctoring". Besides, my mom used significant healthcare resources in the last decade of her life, so it all balances out.
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Dude, going in for an annual checkup is a minimal use of resources and can save you a lot of grief. You'll probably end up saving the system a lot of money by catching things early.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Another thing that you never hear from anybody at all. Wait! There is one group of people that says this crap. :roll: Those poor underpaid teachers. Those poor underpaid military members. :roll: :roll:

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Some people only work 25-40 hours per week. That's $9,425 - $15,080 per year. Companies are goofy and never pay minimum wage. They usually bump it up to $8 for some reason. Still that's only $10,400 - $16,640. No!!!!! Government employees make really good money. Have you ever heard of a government employee leave his job? Ever? It can happen. If that person did leave their government job was it to collect retirement, to get a lower paying job or to get a higher paying job? Hint: It wasn't to get a higher paying job.
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I'm not sure about any other category, but, since you mentioned teachers, I do know that only about half of them make it past the five year mark.

On the outside looking in, teaching appears to be a nice, cushy, secure job. Try it though, and you'll find out why so many quit after having spent the time and money to get a credential.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm not sure about any other category, but, since you mentioned teachers, I do know that only about half of them make it past the five year mark.

On the outside looking in, teaching appears to be a nice, cushy, secure job. Try it though, and you'll find out why so many quit after having spent the time and money to get a credential.
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Kids will continue to be a pain in the ass no matter how much you pay the teacher. The five year statistic probably wouldn't change enough to justify the expense even if you did pay them more.

Besides: What do those teachers do that leave? I have met many certified teachers that no longer teach. None of them that I have met are making salaries higher than the pay of a teacher.

Underpaid implies that the person could make more. It has absolutely nothing to do with how hard they work.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Kids will continue to be a pain in the ass no matter how much you pay the teacher. The five year statistic probably wouldn't change enough to justify the expense even if you did pay them more.

Besides: What do those teachers do that leave? I have met many certified teachers that no longer teach. None of them that I have met are making salaries higher than the pay of a teacher.

Underpaid implies that the person could make more. It has absolutely nothing to do with how hard they work.
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Teachers are not underpaid, at least not locally. In places like Utah or Mississippi, they just might be, I'm not sure. It is a job with lots of perks: security (no one is going to quit having kids), vacation time, health benefits, a great retirement system, a steady income. It is also a very difficult job.

And, I think you're right that paying the more wouldn't stop the half who quit from quitting. More autonomy, fewer bureaucrats telling the schools what to do, better discipline, that might help. What would help the most would be more parents who actually raise their children rather than just letting them grow up.
 
Your income has nothing to do with deciding if you are a worse person or not.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
11 times out of 11 they are government employees.
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I have never experienced a government employee thinking that someone is a worse person because their income has decreased.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
They don't say it that way. They say that people who receive government benefits are scum. If you break that down that is people with low income.

Since politicians are the obvious culprits for these government programs the hate towards recipients is completely idiotic. Their disdain stems from the person's income being too low. Higher income makes them ineligible for these government benefits.

Have you seriously never heard passionate hate come out of the mouth of a government employee for people who bum off of the government? I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and I will stamp you as lucky. I've heard this a lot and this type of unjustified hate always comes from government employees.
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I have not heard this expressed but now that you mention it I can imagine some would feel this way depending on the job.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
My base annual income as of August 13, 2014 = $17,784
My wife's base income as of August 13, 2014 = $18,720
Additional source of income as of August 13, 2014 = $10,400

Total income = $46,904.00

My base annual income as of August 14, 2014 = $17,784
My wife's base income as of August 14, 2014 = $18,720
Additional source of income as of August 14, 2014 = $0.00

Total income = $36,504.00

In the course of 1 day my household income decreased by $10,400 per year.

How does this make me a worse person than I was 1 day prior? I don't get it. Pretty soon I will be eligible for many government benefits that I am not currently eligible. Does this make me a worse person from a moral perspective? If so, what have I done wrong that makes me so sorry? What was I doing right the day before that caused this to happen? How did my character change just in the course of 1 day?

I voted for the third option but I know lots of people believe that scum bags have low incomes and good people have high incomes.

Perhaps this exercise will allow them the opportunity to explain their world view.

See original thread here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...w-my-income-has-increased.html#post1063090950
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I'm curious, do you think pay level is directly correlated to how good of a person you are? Don't you think it's maybe correlated to your job skills and opportunities? You're not a better or a worse person now that you're income has decreased, but you are a poorer person. I'm not sure how these things are linked in your mind.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Seems then like nobody went for your strawman, as the only yes vote is from someone who picked yes just to troll.
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One person PM'd me privately to tell me that he thought somebody who made less money was a worse person.

Have you ever heard rude, disrespectful and hateful comments about "those people" who live on welfare? People on welfare make less money than people who are not on welfare.

Are you saying these people are being dishonest about their hate for "those people" on welfare? Is it just a creative way to dispel racism without getting dirty looks?
 
vasuderatorrent said:
My base annual income as of August 13, 2014 = $17,784
My wife's base income as of August 13, 2014 = $18,720
Additional source of income as of August 13, 2014 = $10,400

Total income = $46,904.00

My base annual income as of August 14, 2014 = $17,784
My wife's base income as of August 14, 2014 = $18,720
Additional source of income as of August 14, 2014 = $0.00

Total income = $36,504.00

In the course of 1 day my household income decreased by $10,400 per year.

How does this make me a worse person than I was 1 day prior? I don't get it. Pretty soon I will be eligible for many government benefits that I am not currently eligible. Does this make me a worse person from a moral perspective? If so, what have I done wrong that makes me so sorry? What was I doing right the day before that caused this to happen? How did my character change just in the course of 1 day?

I voted for the third option but I know lots of people believe that scum bags have low incomes and good people have high incomes.

Perhaps this exercise will allow them the opportunity to explain their world view.

See original thread here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...w-my-income-has-increased.html#post1063090950
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You're not a "worse person" you're just "worse off"
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Seems then like nobody went for your strawman, as the only yes vote is from someone who picked yes just to troll.
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TurtleDude, Lizzie and Mistervitis are a few people who didn't vote in this thread.
 
I judge people on two things:

What they are like when the going gets tough

And how they treat other people.

How much money they have/make does not enter into it.
 
DA60 said:
I judge people on two things:

What they are like when the going gets tough

And how they treat other people.

How much money they have/make does not enter into it.
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What if they get food stamps?

Your income has to be low to get food stamps.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I think so. I have never heard of any other person that feels this way. I have never heard of a multi-millionaire that feels this way. I have never heard of a hard working tax payer that feels this way. It's always people that bum off the government that judge people for bumming off of the government.

Has anybody else reading this thread ever heard of a person that looks down on welfare recipients that doesn't work for the government? I never have.
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Tons of people...

though a number of them make money off those very same people... because they provide the benefits like HUD housing, and food by accepting welfare cards etc. But they are not government employees.. why they are great "job creators"...
 
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