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"It's not going to end Well "

Did Deregulated Derivatives Cause the Financial Crisis? : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gramm



Oh looky, it appears that you are mostly wrong. Clinton signed everything into law, and the CRA requirements were critical to passage of the bi-partisan passed law you're trying to hang around Gramm's neck. Looks like Democrats were all for this "conservative" economic policy. Looks like you'll have to take an equal share of the blame too.

So you oppose the deregulation of the financial industry and reject conservative economic policy.

Wait you don't. You're just being dishonest.

I thought so. You need to make up your mind -- are you for regulation of the financial industry like progressive are, or not. Come on, spit it out.
 
So you're against
the deregulation of the financial industry and reject conservative policy?

Wait, you're for it. This is getting complex. Maybe you should at least try to be honest.

Meantime, who cut taxes on the wealthy and deregulated CDSs? Come on, I know you can say it.

Clinton cut taxes on the rich and deregulated CDS's.

He lowered Capital Gains taxes and passed the Comodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

There were also provisions in his HomeOwners Strategy that reduced oversight on CDS.

Remember his HomeOwners Strategy ? From 1995 ? Read it yet ?

Why not ? Is it goinf to counter your false narrative ?

So anyway whats your point ? We know the collapse was Clintons doing all along.
 
pssst, did you ever figure out that I posted Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets?

pssst, dd you ever realize the extent of my involvement was pointing out the fallacy of the Presidents Working Group being uses as an authoritative source for the debate?
 
The Last Time The Dow Was Here... | Zero Hedge

"Mission Accomplished" - With CNBC now lost for countdown-able targets (though 20,000 is so close), we leave it to none other than Jim Cramer, quoting Stanley Druckenmiller, to sum up where we stand (oh and the following list of remarkable then-and-now macro, micro, and market variables), namely that "we all know it's going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money" - ZH translation: "just make sure to sell ahead of everyone else."

Dow Jones Industrial Average: Then 14164.5; Now 14164.5
Regular Gas Price: Then $2.75; Now $3.73
GDP Growth: Then +2.5%; Now +1.6%
Americans Unemployed (in Labor Force): Then 6.7 million; Now 13.2 million
Americans On Food Stamps: Then 26.9 million; Now 47.69 million
Size of Fed's Balance Sheet: Then $0.89 trillion; Now $3.01 trillion
US Debt as a Percentage of GDP: Then ~38%; Now 74.2%
US Deficit (LTM): Then $97 billion; Now $975.6 billion
Total US Debt Oustanding: Then $9.008 trillion; Now $16.43 trillion
US Household Debt: Then $13.5 trillion; Now 12.87 trillion
Labor Force Particpation Rate: Then 65.8%; Now 63.6%
Consumer Confidence: Then 99.5; Now 69.6
S&P Rating of the US: Then AAA; Now AA+
VIX: Then 17.5%; Now 14%
10 Year Treasury Yield: Then 4.64%; Now 1.89%
EURUSD: Then 1.4145; Now 1.3050
Gold: Then $748; Now $1583
NYSE Average LTM Volume (per day): Then 1.3 billion shares; Now 545 million shares

hey fenton, mind updating some of the numbers?

pssst, dd you ever realize the extent of my involvement was pointing out the fallacy of the Presidents Working Group being uses as an authoritative source for the debate?

actually no I didn't. Your 'fallacy argument' was based on the fallacy that you thought President Obama appointed the group. It was Bush's (BUSH'S NOT OBAMA'S) Working Group. And you seem to ignore the actual mortgage data I posted that proves exactly what Bush's (BUSH'S NOT OBAMA'S) Working Group said. I'm still not sure you've figured that out yet.

hey, the people Obama hand selected to form the plunge protection team blames Bush

what more do you want?

/sarcasm


clownsayswhat

clowns say "hey, the people Obama hand selected to form the plunge protection team blames Bush"
 
Hey fenton, how's that update coming.

Just noticed this thread. The article cited by the OP is one of many examples of why I don't regret quitting reading ZH a while back.
 
Looks like the Obama presidency ended quite well. a growing economy, low unemployment and deficit so low republicans want to raise it.
 
Just noticed this thread. The article cited by the OP is one of many examples of why I don't regret quitting reading ZH a while back.

ZH is the ultimate chicken little. They (he) will be right one day, after being wrong for over a decade.
 
Looks like the Obama presidency ended quite well. a growing economy, low unemployment and deficit so low republicans want to raise it.

:lamo Your'e always so predictable and easy VERN

Donna Brazille slams Obama's economy...

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/24797

From February 13 2016...

" I think people are more in despair about how things are - yes, new jobs but they are low wage jobs.

Housing is a HUGE issue. Most people pay half of what they make on Rent ".
 
ZH is the ultimate chicken little. They (he) will be right one day, after being wrong for over a decade.

I don't read their articles. I listen even less to cramer.
 
:lamo Your'e always so predictable and easy VERN

Donna Brazille slams Obama's economy...

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/24797

From February 13 2016...

" I think people are more in despair about how things are - yes, new jobs but they are low wage jobs.

Housing is a HUGE issue. Most people pay half of what they make on Rent ".

Oh look, fenton found a phrase or sentence fragment that allows him to ignore the facts and cling to his narrative. shocking. Fenton, the Obama Presidency ended quite well. You predicted the opposite. shocking again.
 
I believe it was Chris dodd and Barney frank that refused to get fannie and freddie under control
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...rats-were-wrong-on-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac

Remember when you believed:

President Obama was born in Kenya
His BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies

I do. Those lying conservative narratives like your "editorial" require you to ignore the facts. Oh and just like most conservatives here, your "editorial" has to resort to lies. Case in point.

"That bill, which the Democrats stopped from passing, would have prohibited the GSEs from speculating on the mortgage-based securities they packaged. "

While its a matter of opinion if the "bill" would have accomplished anything it just another blatant conservative lie to say the democrats stopped it. Republicans controlled congress and Senate Leader Frist refused to allow a vote on it after it passed committee . And fenton can confirm it. If you have any questions, here's a thread that can answer them

I still see alot of misconceptions about the Bush Mortgage Bubble and the Bush policies that encouraged, funde and protected it so I thought I would start an FAQ section. Since the resulting destruction of the housing and financial sector are still a drag on the economy today, it seems relevent

Q When did the Bush Mortgage Bubble start?

A The general timeframe is it started late 2004.

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

mmmm, that's odd, you've posted to the FAQ thread so you are aware of it.
 
Remember when you believed:

President Obama was born in Kenya
His BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies

I do. Those lying conservative narratives like your "editorial" require you to ignore the facts. Oh and just like most conservatives here, your "editorial" has to resort to lies. Case in point.

"That bill, which the Democrats stopped from passing, would have prohibited the GSEs from speculating on the mortgage-based securities they packaged. "

While its a matter of opinion if the "bill" would have accomplished anything it just another blatant conservative lie to say the democrats stopped it. Republicans controlled congress and Senate Leader Frist refused to allow a vote on it after it passed committee . And fenton can confirm it. If you have any questions, here's a thread that can answer them

I see your attempt to dodge the question is noted. without actually dealing with what is being commented on. This has nothing to do with obama.
It was shown numerous times that fannie and freddie were out of control and all they did was stick their head in the sand.

Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco - The Boston Globe

i can quote other democrats along the same time but those two where the biggest and loudest. it doesn't surprise me though as chriss dodd was number 1 on the
donation list either freddie or fannie i can't remember which one.

the liberals in congress continued to stop any reform to freddie and fannie.
 
Christ on a cross ...

The housing meltdown happened because rich people are able to run the government from inside the government and write the rules to benefit themselves.

It doesn't matter who is in the White House or who has a majority in Congress. The ones with money can and will pay whoever is in power at the time to do whatever it is that they need to have done to increase their wealth.
 
There was a study published a few months ago. I heard the story on NPR. This study concluded that the vast majority of foreclosures were not of homeowners who couldn't afford their mortgage, although those did make up a small percentage, they were by light weight developers and flippers who got over extended and walked away. It was like 80% of them. I'll have to find that and post it. Kind of blows holes in a lot of theories about fannie and freddie.
 
There was a study published a few months ago. I heard the story on NPR. This study concluded that the vast majority of foreclosures were not of homeowners who couldn't afford their mortgage, although those did make up a small percentage, they were by light weight developers and flippers who got over extended and walked away. It was like 80% of them. I'll have to find that and post it. Kind of blows holes in a lot of theories about fannie and freddie.

I don't doubt that Fannie and Freddie overbought the MBSs, though. And the rating agencies should have all gone to jail for their gross negligence. There were a lot of moving pieces in the meltdown.
 
I don't doubt that Fannie and Freddie overbought the MBSs, though. And the rating agencies should have all gone to jail for their gross negligence. There were a lot of moving pieces in the meltdown.

You got that right. Much of our financial systems wows can be blamed, IMHO, on performance pay/bonuses that incentivise the wrong behaviors. Or exaggerate practices that are not viable in the long term. Matter of fact we need to work of that. Long term planning and strategies. Chasing the quick buck can work once or twice, but eventually someone has to pay.
 
I see your attempt to dodge the question is noted. without actually dealing with what is being commented on. This has nothing to do with obama.
It was shown numerous times that fannie and freddie were out of control and all they did was stick their head in the sand.

Ludin, the reason you couldn't "read" that I told you that republicans controlled congress is because it shreds your "reality". Its not your fault you can grasp the fact that republicans controlled congress so Dowd and Frank couldn't "stop" anything. Its still dishonest its just not your fault.

And you can find a million "editorials" that tell you what you want to believe but instead of looking for the "next" one, why not address the documented lies of the first editorial you posted? It told you democrats stopped a magical bill from passing. It was a complete and total lie. I understand actual reality is hard for you so you have to read this as many times as necessary. The magical bill passed the committee and the republican leader of the senate (Frist) refused to allow a vote on it. And you're never going to guess who told Frist to do that.
the liberals in congress continued to stop any reform to freddie and fannie.

I hate to have to do this because I don't think you are ready but Bush stopped reform. He was the president and again, republicans controlled congress. Here's what Bush said about the House version of the magical bill you think would have magically stopped the Bush Mortgage Bubble

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY

The Administration strongly believes that the housing GSEs should be focused on their core housing mission, particularly with respect to low-income Americans and first-time homebuyers. Instead, provisions of H.R. 1461 that expand mortgage purchasing authority would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.


George W. Bush: Statement of Administration Policy: H.R. 1461 - Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

yes, he literally said he was against reform because it "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers". Read that over and over until you understand.
 
I see your attempt to dodge the question is noted.
Ludin, where'd you go? I'd ask fenton where he went but he never answers questions. seriously Ludin, if even you cant think of some silly made up of thin air response then certainly it has to occur to you that what you believe is just more conservative lies. Remember when your conservative masters told you:

resident Obama was born in Kenya
His BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies

Ludin, can you please explain to me why you choose narrative over integrity?
 
Ludin, where'd you go? I'd ask fenton where he went but he never answers questions. seriously Ludin, if even you cant think of some silly made up of thin air response then certainly it has to occur to you that what you believe is just more conservative lies. Remember when your conservative masters told you:

resident Obama was born in Kenya
His BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies

Ludin, can you please explain to me why you choose narrative over integrity?

Can you please explain to me what any of that nonsense has to do with the thread and why you can't address what is being discussed.

I don't have to entertain that nonsense and I won't.
You post was a red herring and a dodge.

Go back and address what was discussed or don't bother.
 
I don't doubt that Fannie and Freddie overbought the MBSs, though. And the rating agencies should have all gone to jail for their gross negligence. There were a lot of moving pieces in the meltdown.

Fannie and Freddie MBS purchases were largely irrelevent.

Here's Fannie and Freddie's basic decades old bussiness model. They purchase mortgages, they turn them into securities and then they sell those securites.
Whats relevent is during the run up to 2008, the GSEs sold trillions of dollars in MBSs and the ONLY MBS that were given AAA status were agency MBS.

Fannie and Freddies MBS recieved that rating because US debt had a AA rating at the time.
 
There was a study published a few months ago. I heard the story on NPR. This study concluded that the vast majority of foreclosures were not of homeowners who couldn't afford their mortgage, although those did make up a small percentage, they were by light weight developers and flippers who got over extended and walked away. It was like 80% of them. I'll have to find that and post it. Kind of blows holes in a lot of theories about fannie and freddie.

Fannie and Freddies very substantial and centralized role in the subprime fiasco is no theory. Without the GSEs , there wouldnt have been a 2008 Subprime meltdown.

Prior to 1995, the GSEs purchased primarily prime mortgages. After securitizing them as agency MBS, those securitizies would be sold off with a '" AAA " rating
GSEs debt was for years considered as safe as US Treasuries and thats because the GSEs had very high standards when it came to the type of loans they purchased

That all changed when Bill Clinton lowered those standards through his 1995 National Homeowners strategy. Clinton gave them affordable lending " goals " which included quotas for the purchase of subprime loans that strated at 46 percent.

That is 46 percent of loans the GSEs purchased had to be subprime. By 1999, just Fannie mae under the leadership of Franklin Raines was celebrating 1 Trillion dollars in " affordable lending " purchases.

In 2000, Andrew Cuomo, then head of HUD commited the GSEs to 2.4 Trillion dollars in Subprime purchases and by the time the GSEs were decalred insolvent in 2008, they held over 5 Trillion dollars in debt, and had distrubted Trillions of dollars in agency MBSs that were backed by subprime loans

The GSE were exempt from not only paying local and state taxes, they were up to 2004 exempt from SEC oversight and reporting requirements. They also had a 4 Billion dollar line of credit straight from the US Treasury

After being fined in 2004 for 400 million dollars for corrupt accounting techniques, the GSEs agreed to submit to the same SEC reporting requirements all publicly traded companies have to submit to.
In 2011, the SEC published its findings on its investigation into Fannie and Freddie an found both agencies ommitted hundreds billions of dollars in Subprime debt EACH year from 2004-2008 from their SEC quartlery reports

It was unprcedented securities fraud and a expose of just how mismanaged and corrupted the GSEs had become.

There had been numerous warnings about the GSEs and their potential to cause a systemic financial crisis. Bush warned of that very thing back on 2001
 
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