• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

California weed woes

Yes, because government ruins everything.

From the article:



Yet another government failure to add to the mile-long list of government failures.

Marijuana is one of the safest drugs known to man. It does not need to regulated or taxed, and growers do not need to be licensed, nor should they be forced to buy permits.

As a life long smoker I beg to differ. I much prefer to have some regulation for production and distribution to ensure uncontaminated quality products. Edibles MUST be regulated to keep out of the hands of children in particular. Now don't get me wrong in Canada, the gov't imposed the most ridiculous packaging requirements and in Ontario completely bungled the roll out of legal outlets and the arbitrary thc limit on edibles is nonsensical as just a couple of examples.

REgulation requires enforcement which requires money and manpower. Taxing the product being regulated is the right way for government to pay for it. Not to mention creating a substantial additional revenue stream, over and above such costs.

Its an unregulated untaxed industry now, and criminal lowlifes are enjoying the cream. Legalize it, reduce the black market to niche consumption, empower individuals to grow their own limited number of plants if they are so inclined and all of a sudden a whole lot of criminals are out of jobs, and a whole lot of cops, lawyers, judges, and parole officers and will have to find other stuff to do. NOt to mention all those private prisons having to replace their largest source of "clients".
 
As a life long smoker I beg to differ. I much prefer to have some regulation for production and distribution to ensure uncontaminated quality products. Edibles MUST be regulated to keep out of the hands of children in particular. Now don't get me wrong in Canada, the gov't imposed the most ridiculous packaging requirements and in Ontario completely bungled the roll out of legal outlets and the arbitrary thc limit on edibles is nonsensical as just a couple of examples.

REgulation requires enforcement which requires money and manpower. Taxing the product being regulated is the right way for government to pay for it. Not to mention creating a substantial additional revenue stream, over and above such costs.

Its an unregulated untaxed industry now, and criminal lowlifes are enjoying the cream. Legalize it, reduce the black market to niche consumption, empower individuals to grow their own limited number of plants if they are so inclined and all of a sudden a whole lot of criminals are out of jobs, and a whole lot of cops, lawyers, judges, and parole officers and will have to find other stuff to do. NOt to mention all those private prisons having to replace their largest source of "clients".

You made a very compelling argument. :thumbs:

According to the article, the rollout in California seems to have hit a wall. 80% wanted pot legalized...but 80% don't want pot retail stores in their towns and communities. That's why the legal growers aren't making any profits and the blackmarket still is. If they could open more stores...they'd have more than enough to pay taxes and fees and still make a hefty profit. After all, it's an eleven billion dollar industry...bigger than NAPA wine. They just gotta make people understand that it's not going to destroy their property values or their kids if a dispensary is located on the outskirts of town.

When I lived in LA there was no problem putting 12 or 15 bars and 24 hr. liquor stores in a two block radius near schools and residential areas...but now, let there be one dispensary in the entire county...noooo, can't have that...think of the children.
 
The whole "government ruins everything" argument seems too childish to come from any rational adult. The positives and negatives of government are transparent to everyone. To pretend that the positives don't exist is silly.
 
i don't know about california, but in Canada commercial growers need licenses that state the number of plants a commercial grower can grow. Anecdotally I hear that in Ontario they have started regular inspections.

Not in the US for commercial purposes.
 
THey were very upfront about taxation when they were campaigning for it. I like how much of the tax $ goes to schools and other things.

I'm not a big user, I like the stores and the very helpful and knowledgeable staff. And the increased likelihood of consistency and safety in the product. And the variety!

I dont like bargain basement wine or liquor, why would I penny pinch on pot?

I like how much of the tax $ goes to schools and other things.

So does the Teachers union(wink)
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

I did...the second I saw pot being sold at black market prices, alongside the ability for folks to grow their own. There is no cost justification for pot to be as expensive as it is in a legal market. There is so much room for profit there that the black market can take a 30-40% hit and still be highly profitable.

Drugs are expensive because they are illegal, there is risk involved. There is no reason, other than greed, that pot should be more expensive than tobacco. If they were serious about eliminating the black market, they would price pot in a way that puts the black market out of business. They certainly could, if they wanted to - from a cost perspective, it's the easiest thing in the world. :shrug: If it were up to me, there would be no regulation of prices whatsoever, and anyone who wanted to enter the industry could. A free market in this case would make all the difference.
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

No different than hiring the kid down the street to shovel your driveway instead of hiring a professional snow removal company to plow it.
 
And just how extensive is the black market for home brew booze - not stolen, but home brew?

Exactly.

There will be ongoing problems until it is legal federally and at least a very strong majority of states. There will always be a black market as long as there are places where it cannot be sold legally.

Know the best way to do it? The way MA did: legal pot shops, and if you follow a few easy-to-follow rules, an individual can grow 6 plants, making 12 for a household. If you use auto-flowering plants, which are generally harvestable 9-12 weeks after sprouting, you can grow far more than you'll ever use. If you ever need to buy anything, it'll be edibles unless you're into making those yourself as well.

Hey, I got a guy for shine! lol... He makes this apple booze that is actually bloody amazing, and strong AF. He supplies the entire plant my brother in law works for. I get the occasional mason jar from him - yep, he uses mason jars...lol... A little Alabama right here in Ontario. :lol:

Of course, growing your own is the best way to go. There's a bit of a learning curve, but it gets easier the more you're willing to invest. As for edibles and concentrates, the University of YouTube shows just how easy it is. For about $500, you can buy everything you need to make the finest quality hash oil. Probably less, but the system I like lets you recycle almost all your alcohol - by way of a still, no less...haha...

Even if you get legalization at all levels, you'll have a black market as long as the price is so high that they can still make a profit by undercutting it. Pot is legal across Canada in every state, and there are still LOTS of people selling in the black market, for this very reason. Once you start growing your own, you realize how easy it is, and, more importantly, how cheap it is.
 
When one stops to consider the multi billion dollar illegal pot market in North America many don't consider that hundreds of thousands of citizens if not millions in the three countries are employed by it. It forms a cornerstone of criminal activity.

Much of the street level distribution is controlled by vicious criminal gangs who fight over turf and sources. Now legalization comes to town, and what do these guys do for money? they can only move to the hard drug market, or branch out into new areas of criminal activity, oor for a relatively few lucky ones, cut bait and sit on their loot.
cIOW, the criminals (from top to bottom) who currently make up the illegal pot market are going to have to find something else to do. And I suspect its not going to be anything real pleasant for the rest of us when their golden goose becomes a copper budgie.

Newton's third and all.
 
Know the best way to do it? The way MA did: legal pot shops, and if you follow a few easy-to-follow rules, an individual can grow 6 plants, making 12 for a household. If you use auto-flowering plants, which are generally harvestable 9-12 weeks after sprouting, you can grow far more than you'll ever use. If you ever need to buy anything, it'll be edibles unless you're into making those yourself as well.

I have more productive ways to use my time than to grow weed, and why tf should I have to? This is as dumb as forcing me to grow my own vegetables and raise chickens so I can have eggs for breakfast.
 
The cops STILL harass and threaten growers, even when legal. This adds cost. Dispensaries are not very profitable.

Indoor grows ruin houses and apts, cause mold, leak water, cost mucho electricity.

Used to be lots of posts in craigs, now there are VERY few, and most ate pot shops, that dont give name.

BUT, is is far better to have it legal, as having a medical card can be used against you, to include making any gun you possess, a possible felony.
 
Hey, I got a guy for shine! lol... He makes this apple booze that is actually bloody amazing, and strong AF. He supplies the entire plant my brother in law works for. I get the occasional mason jar from him - yep, he uses mason jars...lol... A little Alabama right here in Ontario. :lol:

Of course, growing your own is the best way to go. There's a bit of a learning curve, but it gets easier the more you're willing to invest. As for edibles and concentrates, the University of YouTube shows just how easy it is. For about $500, you can buy everything you need to make the finest quality hash oil. Probably less, but the system I like lets you recycle almost all your alcohol - by way of a still, no less...haha...

Even if you get legalization at all levels, you'll have a black market as long as the price is so high that they can still make a profit by undercutting it. Pot is legal across Canada in every state, and there are still LOTS of people selling in the black market, for this very reason. Once you start growing your own, you realize how easy it is, and, more importantly, how cheap it is.

Is this home brew thing big up there?

I really have not read about much of any significant black market booze production here in the states. Maybe you still find people brewing for themselves/families/friends in various parts, but not a serious market.

As for weed, one local shop is more expensive than my guy used to have, and another one cheaper. Both are top-quality, and besides, I know they're pretty exacting when it comes to standards and check-ups for stuff like pesticide use.
 
Last edited:
I have more productive ways to use my time than to grow weed, and why tf should I have to? This is as dumb as forcing me to grow my own vegetables and raise chickens so I can have eggs for breakfast.

More productive ways. Right. If growing pot is time consuming you're doing it wrong. I water every second day and feed with Miracle Grow every second week and grow enough to last four people all year and let me be generous with it. Seeds cost me less than a hundred bucks.
Forcing you to grow? Yeah, that's dumb. A dumb thing to say.
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

The government started seriously cracking down on opioid pharmaceutical drugs several years ago, and the end result is a flourishing black market which is killing more people than pharms did. The government can't do anything right; they bungled the legalization of weed by being too greedy and demanding too large of a cut, and their ham-fisted handling of the opioid problem is getting more people killed. It just illustrates the problem of the talent pool (or lack thereof) present in our government.
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

I think the same is true for alcohol. Moonshine is cutting into tax revenue, yet we obediently buy the "legal" stuff.
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

Your California friend I'm sure means well, but is just wrong given the objective data out there. Legal weed is regulated to make sure no toxins are present in the product. With the number of legal weed stores all over the west coast and more coming up each day, combined with the millions in tax revenues being derived from legal weed sales, you'd have to be an idiot for looking for weed on the black market.

The bottom line is that legalizing weed and weed byproducts has been a great success. Remember your former Speaker, John Boner? He's now a cannabis company lobbyist. So even conservatives disagree with you.
 
Last edited:
Ehhhh, I provided a link to an article about the subject.

You did, which directly contradicts information from the CA department of revenue:

California Department of Tax and Fee Administration Reports Cannabis Tax Revenues for the Fourth Quarter of 2019

Sacramento – The California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) reported revenue numbers today for cannabis sales for the 4th quarter of 2019. As of February 18, 2020, California's cannabis excise tax generated $84.4 million in revenue reported on the 4th quarter 2019 returns due by January 31, 2020, and the cultivation tax generated $23.6 million.

Sales tax from cannabis businesses totaled $64.7 million in revenue for the same period. Sales tax applies to sales of cannabis, cannabis productsnd other tangible personal property. Certain retail sales of medicinal cannabis are exempt from sales and use taxes when the purchaser provides at the time of purchase a valid Medical Marijuana Identification Card issued by the California Department of Public Health and a valid government-issued identification card.

Total tax revenue reported by the cannabis industry is $172.7 million for 4th quarter returns due by January 31, 2020. This does not include tax revenue collected by each jurisdiction. Previously reported revenue for 3rd quarter 2019 returns was revised to $170.1 million, which included $84.4 million in cannabis excise tax, $22.7 million in cultivation tax, and $63 million in sales tax. Revisions to quarterly data are the result of amended and late returns, and other tax return adjustments.

Since January 2018, total program revenue to date is $1.03 billion, which includes $498.1 million in cannabis excise tax, $123.4 million in cultivation tax, and $403.1 million in sales tax.

Seems like it's going pretty well for what you're calling a failed industry.
 
People are so gullible that think Pot revenue is the answer to a states fiscal woes(LOL)
 
California's model is flawed. So is Florida's.

Colorado and a few others have better models.
 
Is this home brew thing big up there?

I really have not read about much of any significant black market booze production here in the states. Maybe you still find people brewing for themselves/families/friends in various parts, but not a serious market.

As for weed, one local shop is more expensive than my guy used to have, and another one cheaper. Both are top-quality, and besides, I know they're pretty exacting when it comes to standards and check-ups for stuff like pesticide use.

Mm...not really home brewing, at least, not in the circles I run in. A lot of people have tried the u-brew thing, including myself. I've got an excellent place nearby, with a guy running it who used to work for one of the big breweries, everything he makes turns out great...but ultimately the discount isn't enough to make the organization and bottle inventory worth it. Maybe if I was more of a drinker, but ... for me it's just easier to buy a case of beer when I want one. I think that's the same for most folks.

I don't know how much blackmarket booze production there is here either, but I would expect it would be more than down there, because we pay more for our booze up here. Like, a fair bit more. Of course, moonshine isn't the only way to get at blackmarket booze. The bikers up here make great money robbing liquor stores, bars, and transport trucks. And it isn't always about price. The guy I buy shine from is cheaper than what I'd buy in a store, but not by much. I just like his stuff, and I'm kinda all about that shop local...hehe...

As for pot...when you take the black market variable out of the equation, the price should drop drastically. It's a plant, and not a particularly difficult one to grow. Yes, sure, the genetics make the difference, and that's valuable, but even there...the work is done, and most of it was done for free in the black market era. All those fancy strains you see now are just hybrids of things already done. I can buy a packet of seeds of the best genetics on the planet one time, for not all that much money, and make clones for the rest of my life. There is simply no justification for the prices we see in legal markets. I can buy the same strain from a government store up here for $260 an ounce that I can from the Native reservation shop for $100-$150 an ounce, which I can also get from a black market seller for $80 an ounce, and they are all making money. On the same strain.

And to be honest, the black market guy is currently doing the best job, and he's able to tell me the exact THC % of his herb the same way the government store can, because he's got the equipment to check. I know him, so I trust him. I've seen his operation, I know how he grows his stuff, you won't find him using pesticide on his tomatoes, let alone his pot. So, I buy from him. :shrug: I would suggest that a lot of black market pot is now grown this way, given how many people are allowed to actually grow. He has a license to grow 80 plants at a time (which seems absurd to me, as it's for one patient, but I ain't complaining). It's only the distribution part that's a no-no...but...lol...it was all a no-no not so long ago, and that never stopped me. Only price would make me change my decision making process at this point. This would be obvious to anyone who was actually more interested in stopping a black market economy than enabling corporate greed. If it's not a priority for them, it's not a priority for me.
 
If we remove government taxes and fees on legal weed, that will destroy the black market.
 
Mines in BC with three day delivery (pre covid now 7). As i mentioned in an earlier post that legal sources actually have excellent quality control to go along with a really superb ranges of strains of differing strengths to suit every user. I personally like the higher thc concentration strains and I am delighted to have my pick of them.

dream come true for this ol' hippie.

You're lucky to have that. Delivery has been legalized here, but my suburb doesn't allow stores or delivery, as far as I can tell. My preferred store is at least 10 miles away and I'd gladly pay delivery fees. I actually prefer a lower thc (that doesn't cause me anxiety), but a lot of my favorite strains fall into that category anyway. And quality control, pesticide and mold checks.....very nice things to have.
 
My California friend told me, only idiots buy legal weed. The taxes and other government fees make it so expensive compared to black market weed.

Did you think legalizing weed would turn out this bad? I didn't.




.

Umm yes yes i did. Yes i said it when it first happened.
 
Back
Top Bottom